melissa6381

Hey guys, read the following quote in the book "under the influence" and got me thinking about how maybe certain ethnic groups have literally evolved over time to accept the poison that is alcohol. Curious on your thoughts/reactions.

“Another interesting finding of recent research is the discovery that a direct relationship exists between the length of time an ethnic group has been exposed to alcohol and the rate of alcoholism within that group. Jews and Italians, for example, have had access to large amounts of alcohol for more than 7,000 years, and their alcoholism rate is very low. Alcohol was first introduced in quantity to the northern European countries, including France, Ireland, and the Scandinavian countries, some 1,500 years ago, and the rates of alcoholism are relatively higher there. Native Americans, who suffer from extremely “extremely high alcoholism rates, did not have large supplies of alcohol until approximately 300 years ago.”

ReadyAndAble

Sort of... but it's a little more brutal than that. The theory is that given enough time around alcohol, people who are genetically predisposed toward alcoholism will drink themselves and their DNA into extinction, leaving behind a nice, tidy gene pool of people who can have a drink without craving 20 more.

Classic example of Darwinian natural selection, survival of the fittest, thinning of the herd, yada yada.

Fortunately, other variables can and do come into play—SR being a prime example. Genetics are not destiny, thank goodness.

melissa6381

Ah yes that is more brutal but probably more accurate. Thanks for your insight.

Johno1967

Cultural norms and social issues are also an important aspect of the epidemiology of drinking. Look at Slavic countries, getting sh*tfaced every day is an accepted way of life for many in countries like Russia and the Balkans. I often wonder if alcohol abuse among aboriginal communities here in Australia is more a symptom of poverty and alienation from mainstream than some genetic intolerance to alcohol. Probably a combination of all factors.

bigsombrero

Yep, probably a very complicated combination at that!

Hopscotch

I'm re-reading that book too! What do you think of it?

melissa6381

I liked the beginning of it a lot. For me- hearing about the scientific reasons that my body processes alcohol differently and being able to understand why my friends can drink and I can't was helpful for my surrender. The end dragged for me and I never actually finished it.

Grymt

I'm touchy enough about my ethnicity to start with let alone my alcoholism. One aspect of AA that I've always liked is the concept of Unity.
An alcoholic is an alcoholic.
That;s enough for me.

Am I too sensitive about these types of topics that to me seem to stray away from what I think is the environment that people who struggle with this disease need?

melissa6381

Grymt I apologize for any offense my post has caused you. I found the books passage as a way of looking at our disease from a perspective that I had never considered before and meant no harm.

Grymt

Look, Melissa, it's ok. I harbour no ill will. Be happy. Thank you for your kind reply.

ReadyAndAble

I too am very sorry you were bothered by it, Grymt. I do believe discussing the science surrounding alcoholism is helpful; it certainly has been for me.

For one thing, understanding the biological component helped to counter some of the shame that I initially felt in acknowledging my alcoholism. It doesn't get me off the hook for all the bad choices I made, but it does suggest that addiction is not simply a moral failing, as most people assumed for centuries, and many still assume today.

And personally I feel that the genetic links we are talking about are a profound form of unity. The theory I described above applies equally to all humans; the lone variable is when each society starts drinking. I'm mostly Irish; we have a bit of a reputation, lol... But hey, we're relative newcomers to the party, so cut us some Darwinian slack. While modern Italians might seem like the ultimate suave sippers, step back in time a couple thousand years, and you'll probably find a city full of drunk Romans...

Science and history—the more I know about both, the more connected I feel to everyone around me.

Dee74

send a PM to an Administrator, or to me and I'll pass it on.
Include at least two name choices unless the first ones taken

It's clear to me the OP meant no harm tho.

if you haven't read the book (I haven't) it's probably a good idea to do that and get the context

D

melissa6381

This is such a nightmare, am I being reported for something? I was only trying to bring something to the table that brought me new understanding into this monster of a disease that we all are suffering from. "Under the influence" is a book that examines alcoholism from a scientific point of view and i have always felt that educating myself has helped me in my recovery. I meant no disrespect to anyone and would be devastated to loose the support of these forums when I need it so badly.

choublak

I think in some cases, like in some Native American communities, alcoholism is higher because the community is insular.

choublak

I believe he was talking about how to change a username.

Dee74

sent you a PM melissa - every thing is fine

D.

Grymt

Absolutely. Melissa, everything is fine. Dee was just responding to my query re changing username. I'm not the grim person I was when I joined. I've been thinking of changing it. Now I know how, I find I don't really know what it might be. Maybe confusedandlovingit (alky formerly known as Grymt)

Ghostly

Awesome idea for a new name!

exponential

I remember seeing the ethnic/cultural correlation idea in that book when I read it many years ago, and find it interesting. This isn't ethnic stereotyping, it is bona fide research into demographic factors associated with alcoholism.

I can't imagine there have been enough generations since biblical times in Europe, or in North America since Europeans moved here, to weed out alcoholics in particular populations through natural selection alone. Abstainers and moderate drinkers live longer and have more babies? Maybe so, but I think it would take a long time to have a significant impact on alcoholism rates. If the correlation is as significant as the Under the Influence book suggests, it must be, at least in part, more of a cultural thing.

Last time I checked, the Mediterranean countries Italy, France, and Spain are the world leaders in wine production -- they love their wine. But as far as I can tell, the people in those countries (or with ancestry there) don't drink to excess the way some other groups do. They have figured out how to deal with the problem, somehow. Beats the heck out of me.

Hopscotch

Hi Melissa! I don't think that any of the comments were directed at you, just a difference of opinion regarding the book's content!
I'm happy you brought the subject up, because I noticed that chart too.
I also see what you mean about the end losing some of its.. scientific credibility and lurching into somewhat... mushy territory. Overall though, I learned a lot reading it.