tomsteve

"My recovery had turned into, “I should be doing…..”"
i had this problem at pne point in recovery. then my sponsor had me go through the big book and underline all the "musts." it was pretty amazing seeing that i was doin the opposite of what the 'musts" tell me to do and also turned out thats why i wasnt having any of the promises come true.

hope the best for ya on this journey.

Joe Nerv

Hmm... I welcome the mirror that has been placed before me. Perhaps I can be a little more clear, since I have some time on my hands right now.

I've spend a little more than half my recover, about 16-17 years, in therapy. Mostly 1 on 1, but early on I've done some stints with group therapy, and I've gone through couples therapy with my ex-girlfriend, and my wife - before we were married. The help I got with relationships I could have never gotten in AA, yet I may have never reached out for that help if not for AA.

On top of that, I, did 2 years volunteer work as a group faciliator at Beth Isreal Hospital in NY. It was for recovering addicts and family members. I also did a short stint counseling in a detox, as I was in school to be certified and it was part of the training. Got my certification, but didn't persue that as a career for a lot of reasons...

I can directly attribute certain things to being in therapy. Owning my own apartment is one, wouldn't have happened without the therapist I had at that time. I'm certain about that. And grateful. My being married to the most awesome woman on the planet is another thing that I doubt would have happened, if I weren't in therapy. A big part of being able to love myself also came from my experience with the first therapist I had in recovery. She knew every single dark, hidden corner of my being, and in her acceptance of me, she helped me learn to accept myself. She was also a program person. Anyhow... my respect for therapy is quite genuine.

If there is anything at all that may make my words seem disengenous it might be the fact that it has cost me lots of money. There have been many times I didn't have medical coverage, and I've had to pay out of pocket. That stung. There have been times also where I paid therapists that were completely useless to me... but it took me 2 or 3 visits to realize this. And cost a lot of money. I currently have medical coverage, but if I choose to go to therapy it's going to still cost me $50-$75 a week in co-payments alone. Would love to do it, but that's not a welcome expense right now. Would rather take a crusie to Italy and Greece, which I am in a few months.

Anyhow, while the above might seem defensive - it is only slightly. I really do have a lot of respect for the benefits of therapy. Just wish I could still get it with full medical coverage, as I did for the first handful of years I was sober. If I could I would absolutely have a therapist in my life right now. I function fine however without a therapist, things have gotten pretty messy though when I've completely omitted AA. Das all.

Joe Nerv

LOL. With no disrespect... Just noticed you live in Canada. Have a go at paying $150 a week for a therapist for a year. I think you too might then prefer AA to therapy.

RobbyRobot

Thanks, Joe. I figure with you having 28 years, you can handle a little introspection, and I was right, you didn't disappoint. I appreciate the obvious sincerity in response post, again thanks.

I suppose I'm saying I suspected you have already had both good and bad but otherwise essential experiences with therapists/therapy. It's this side of the story that was missing for me, as I can more understand your take on things when I have some back story to your views.



Yeah, you've been a full participant in your therapy experiences on both sides. Awesome!

Not the money end of it, although I do understand how money can be a real problem with sustaining a therapy approach. I think what attracted me to disagree with your statements of experience, is when you included medications, pretty well saying AA trumps taking meds too. These kind of statements irk me, because, as we all know, AA treats all medical resources, practices, and medications as outside of it's agency. AA has no statement on the matter except that those resources are available and are there to be used, as a member may so freely choose, without penalty to their 12 step program of recovery.

I think this sums it up, thanks. I hear you now saying if you could well afford it, indeed ongoing therapy would be an essential resource with your recovery/recovered life along with AA. You'd use them both. Awesome.

Thanks, Joe.

TheEnd

I currently only see my therapist once every 4-5 weeks and have been on this schedule probably for a year and half. I understand what you are saying about the weekly thing, but after a certain amount of time with the right therapist, weekly visits are not necessary.

RobbyRobot

Yeah, financial resources are always a real concern with taking therapy, I hear you. As it turns out, I'm rather rich nowadays, and can easily afford whatever it takes for my therapeutic needs and wants. I recently burned through several thousand dollars of intensive therapy over a period of several months just before I had my polio disabled leg amputated last August. The surgery was elective, and I wanted to make sure I was being sane with my decisions. I have a thread on it here on SR. Very helpful and required for my well being, both the therapy and the surgery, and as well the thread.

In my early years of sobriety, I was much less rich, and yet was very fortunate to have as a mentor my good friend Bruce, now deceased, who was both a clinical psychologist, and an Anglican minister with PhD's in both psychology and divinity. Bruce was also a recovered pain-pill addict, no less. Bruce trained me well. I had years of pretty well free expert gestalt therapy and training as we worked together under his supervision in the addiction fields.

No disrespect taken. No worries. Rock on.

TheEnd

But for me, the promiese have come true.

Lizard99

I left AA shortly after I first got sober. The people are great and the support system excellent but it just wasn't for me. It was wonderful knowing that other people were in the same situation as myself and that I wasn't alone.

I left for mainly three reasons:

I wanted to take responsibility for my life, so surrendering myself to a higher power just felt like I was shirking my responsibility. I got myself into this mess and I was going to get myself out of it.

I also wanted to control alcohol not have alcohol control me. A lifelong commitment to attending AA in my eyes meant that alcohol would still be an obsession. I was never going to give alcohol that satisfaction.

I also felt that sometimes the meetings were just an outlet for people to hear the sound of their own voice or to hone their life story and bask in the admiration of a group of vulnerable people hanging on their every word. Some aspects made it feel like a Toastmasters meeting rather than AA.

Bloody hell, I'm a cynical *******! I have a high respect for the AA program, the issues I had were probably due to the person I am rather than any fault with the people or program.

TheEnd

These two things also resonated in me. I felt like a lifetime commitment to AA would mean that alcohol still had a priority in my life when it doesn't anymore. Like I will always be an alcoholic through and through, but everytime you cough or sneeze you have to say I'm _____ and I'm an alcoholic. So what, what else are you? I'm so much more. It offers such a limited view of yourself.

I also felt like people were standing up on a soapbox and telling me how great they were and why you should do the things they did, because they were so fabulous. Sometimes I would be thinking this person needs to get over themselves, they must think they walk on water or something.

soberlicious

The principles of the program have been around since long before there ever was a program, long before Bill W. was ever born. The same way people put together eggs, flour, and sugar long before Duncan Hines could be bought in a box.

I do lots of things in life that make me a better person, but I don't do them to keep from drinking. If my sobriety relies on something external, then it is always subject to change. If I can only stay sober if I do "this" or "that"...then my sobriety is tenuous.

The fellowship is what keeps AA alive, but the fellowship is also was has morphed the program beyond recognition in some instances.

I also want to add that in the rooms there were very few people who "had what I wanted". There were endless examples of that in the everyday world around me though. I chose to emulate what other successful people did, regardless of whether they had ever been addicted to a substance or not.

tomsteve

for me too once i started doing the "musts"

Joe Nerv

Ya know, I realized only recently - no doubt thanks to the thought this forum has inspired - that I don't do any of the recovery related things I do out of fear of picking up a drink, or even as insurance against. Picking up a drink is far from he worst thing I could imagine happening to me.

I continue with my road of recovery because I also want to continue growing, and because I know me all too well. I have a choice. I can move forward, or backward... there really isn't much in between for me, for whatever reasons. When I stand still I start slipping into negativity. I also enjoy my life like this, knowing that I've still got lots to learn, and lots of people to learn it with. Headin out to do that right now... .

soberlicious

Yes me too. I can and have slipped into negativity before. Even so, the drink doesn't enter in.
"...for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, to be content..." (Phillippians 4:11)
and there you have it...an atheist quoting the Bible You are right Joe, wisdom is everywhere.

TenaciousOne

Through the years I have taken breaks from AA meetings but have always returned when I sense a loss of balance in my life. My primary purpose is to stay sober and to help another alcoholic. Attending meetings help me do both.

LadyBlue0527

This also resonates with me. I am 7 months sober today. I wouldn't be where I am if AA didn't provide the foundation that I needed. The program is excellent and I still attend one specific meeting for the fellowship.

With that being said, and after 7 months of sobriety I have come to a few conclusions about AA:

1.There are hopeless, hardcore alcoholics who require and need the stringency of the program. They need to have their hand held every step of the way and need someone to watch over them.
2.There are problem drinkers who need a little guidance to figure out why they drink in the manner that they do. They don't necessarily need their hand held, they just need some help.
3.There are people who are headed down a bad path and they know it. They need a place to learn from those who can help them to see what could happen if they continue.

AA can help all of the above and more. The problem comes when there is no acceptance of the fact that the three separate entities exist and the thought process is that all should be treated as though they fall into #1. That and exactly what Lizard said. That's why I stopped attending my Big Book meeting. It wasn't about helping others, Lizard's statement is the epitome of that meeting. It's sad really. Again, due to the premise of AA I had questioned what's wrong with me but my defining moment was being able to find a meeting where I didn't feel that way. For that reason I can only conclude that it wasn't me.

AA helps a lot of people. Some might disagree with my take on it but that's ok. I use it in the manner that I need it and I'm sober, it's working.

I say it all the time. There's no wrong way to get sober and to maintain sobriety as long as you're honest with yourself and happy about it.

Johnston

I consider myself more #2,3. I go maybe once a week now and share what's on my mind, nothing else. If people at the meetings don't like it they can outside for a smoke when I'm sharing.

mick3580

Aa is not a cult. I hope everyone who attends or considers attending realizes this. One is free to come and go as one pleases.

LadyBlue0527

I'm sure that this is my own head working overtime but I wanted to clear this up.

I have never been to a meeting where another attendee who was sharing fell into the category of what I agreed with in Lizard's post.

That applied directly to the Big Book meeting that I attended for two months in the beginning. The group members who ran it were so full of themselves it was sickening. Trying to be a part of their clique reminded me of being back in high school. They would take turns speaking after we completed the reading in the Big Book and oh boy, didn't they love the sound of their own voice and the good strong message they were delivering. After two months of this it became very apparent that it wasn't about helping those who needed guidance and listening, it was completely about showing each other up as to who was the better speaker. Not to mention that most of them were very rude. Unless you had completed all the steps with a "Big Book Step Study Sponsor" you were pretty much ignored. Twice (not once, twice) and I am serious, I approached someone after the meeting and extended my hand to introduce myself. Group members were congregating at the back of the room and they were more interested in hurrying to get back there where all the big people were rather than taking the time to talk to me. I don't require a lot of attention but jeese, while you're shaking my hand and I'm telling you my name at least make an attempt to look me in the eye when you respond and not at all the big people at the back of the room that you need to get to so quickly.

No, I am not exaggerating.

I am sure that not all Big Book meetings are like this, I just got the "un"luck of the draw. I'm thankful that I found another meeting that I loved.

kcvalentine

I went to four meetings and met a bunch of wonderful folks. It was one of the first steps on my journey into recovery and their support really fostered a sense of confidence that I still cherish. The program doesn't speak to me in a long-term sense, but I love knowing that if I ever need it a meeting is nearby. I truly honor it, but walking my own path just suits me better.

quitter13

I have been to a few meetings supporting family members and friends while I was still drinking but I have never attended for myself. My mother has been active for 29 years and has been to at least one meeting a week for that time. My brother has been sober 8 years and went for the first 2 and then gave up. He still has his sponsor and a few friends from AA but he told me that he was sick of cliques and people that attended the meeting before and after and those that were more concerned about other people's recovery then their own. I'm sure mileage varies with those statements depending on the particular people at your meetings. Personally, I have not made a decision to go for myself because I feel this is my problem and I need to own it on my own.