constant argument
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 43
constant argument
Hi I am looking for advice or identification i am sober 4 weeks now after a six day binge that again culminated with the usual sickness and hangover although i can cope with this i cant cope with the fears, worry and feeling of worthlessness, once again i find myself at aa meetings this has been a regular pattern going on from 1995 the longest i have been alcohol free is 4 months then i will submit to the constant am i , am i not alcoholic constant argument in my head. i have had some terrifing and humilating experiences with alcohol and suffer blackouts, my dilemma is that i have the trappings of success family, career , no financial worries never in trouble with the law, I can on occasions have drinks and leave it at. I dont normally drink on weekdays unless i am on holiday but will drimk from friday to sunday night and try and judge when to stop so that i can drive to work. t
The early morning drinking has kicked in more and more and i drink in the mornings if i wake up scared or cant remember the night before. the arguments has started again in my head and i worry that again that i will leave and go on my merry way until the pain and humiliation drive me back yo aa. Sorry if i had bored you but this is how things are for me at present.
Any help or advice would be very much appreciated
Thanks
The early morning drinking has kicked in more and more and i drink in the mornings if i wake up scared or cant remember the night before. the arguments has started again in my head and i worry that again that i will leave and go on my merry way until the pain and humiliation drive me back yo aa. Sorry if i had bored you but this is how things are for me at present.
Any help or advice would be very much appreciated
Thanks
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 557
Congrats on your sober time! I've found that waffling about whether I'm an alcoholic or not is never beneficial. It doesn't even matter if I identify myself as an alcoholic. I know that drinking is not beneficial to me. It only hurts me, and I don't want to drink any more. That's all I need to know.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 929
For me I accepted that my alcohol use was a negative in my life. I accepted I had a problem and knew that alcohol was the centre of everything wrong in my life.
I didn't care to give myself a label, just knowing I had a problem with drink was good enough for me. Some time passed and I grew to understand that I was in fact an addict.
I got out of the trap of addiction before I hit rock bottom and I am so grateful for that.
Given more time, my addiction to alcohol would have destroyed my life and slowly killed me.
I'll be sober 7 months soon.
I found reading 'sober for good' to have been very helpful in my early days.
Welcome!
I didn't care to give myself a label, just knowing I had a problem with drink was good enough for me. Some time passed and I grew to understand that I was in fact an addict.
I got out of the trap of addiction before I hit rock bottom and I am so grateful for that.
Given more time, my addiction to alcohol would have destroyed my life and slowly killed me.
I'll be sober 7 months soon.
I found reading 'sober for good' to have been very helpful in my early days.
Welcome!
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
SO FAR you still have the "trappings of success". Do you really think, given the downward spiral in your drinking, that that will last forever? Do you really think you are not causing yourself internal damage (liver damage, brain damage) by excessively drinking all weekend every week? Do you really think this is as far as you are ever going to slide?
You can end this insanity at any time, you know. I'm not aware of any requirement that someone certify you as an alcoholic before you accept the fact that you are someone who will, invariably, wind up drinking unsafely if you drink at all. And that's how your description sounds to me.
I, too, was able to "control" my drinking for discrete periods of time. Sooner or later, though, I would be drinking the way I naturally wanted to, and there would be almost a boomerang effect after struggling to control it.
Only you can decide how far down you want that elevator to go.
You can end this insanity at any time, you know. I'm not aware of any requirement that someone certify you as an alcoholic before you accept the fact that you are someone who will, invariably, wind up drinking unsafely if you drink at all. And that's how your description sounds to me.
I, too, was able to "control" my drinking for discrete periods of time. Sooner or later, though, I would be drinking the way I naturally wanted to, and there would be almost a boomerang effect after struggling to control it.
Only you can decide how far down you want that elevator to go.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 138
I can identify with blackouts, hair of the dog, and humiliation. The line between a heavy drinker and an alcoholic can be ambiguous. Blackouts and drinking in the morning are decidedly alcoholic, to be honest. This is one of those rare medical/physiological things that no one in the world can effectively diagnose, except you. I wish I had some advice to pass along that would help you. Reach out for help when you are ready is about all I can say. Thanks for the thread!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Washington, Captiol City
Posts: 70
Since you asked for an opinion, here goes IN my opinion you should print your original message and bring it with you to your doctors. Discuss it honestly with him. Doc's are not there to judge, they are there to help. It may be the best decision you have ever made. The way things seem to be headed, I would suggest making an appointment sooner than later. Keep posting, keep reading and oh yeah four weeks is HUGE, don't let it go! Awesome Job..
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Des Moines IA
Posts: 377
Perhaps what you've experienced is because alcoholics often quit for different lengths of time but without an effective solution go back to drinking. It appears you haven't found that yet, but have often been where you had the opportunity to observe others who have that.
Is it possible they have done things to free themselves from circumstances much like your own, that you have not yet done to this point? Not drinking for the rest of our lives is worth some effort on our part to reach that goal, given the alternative of trying to get by without an effective answer. That doesn't seem to pan out very well over time.
Is it possible they have done things to free themselves from circumstances much like your own, that you have not yet done to this point? Not drinking for the rest of our lives is worth some effort on our part to reach that goal, given the alternative of trying to get by without an effective answer. That doesn't seem to pan out very well over time.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 891
I was in a similar situation. Today I'm 4 months sober, yesterday I had "one of those" days and needed an adjustment. Today I caught up with a psych for the second time and she diagnosed me with depression. Its one of those "which come first" thing. Did I take up drinking 25 years ago because I was depressed or did I get depressed from the drinking. It doesn't matter, what matters is that 90% of the time I feel like my worst days now are better than my best days drunk. Four months ago I was having raging arguments with myself in my head, the world was grey and I was misery and I toyed with the idea of suicide. I told the psych that after years of denial I'd finally admitted to myself that I was an alcoholic and my recovery started. She challenged me on the benefit of placing such a negative label on myself and suggested it was probably harmful to do so. I pointed out that actually it was the most liberating thing I had ever done, I'd finally got the kick in the head I needed and my eyes were finally opened to the truth. It was like a flash of light went off in my head. With that simple moment of clarity, steps 2 and 3 just happened without any effort and the worst of it was lifted, gone. My point is, without being honest with yourself you will never really take step 1, without rejecting the delusion of denial you will never recover. Give it a go mate, you have so much to gain by it and so much to lose if you don't.
Did the psych help? Well just talking about my depression did. I learned that I'd come a long way in my outlook on life in the last four months but the journey has only began. She tested my faith and asked if my commitment to a spiritual way of life was not in some way a substitute for addiction. I asked her if it would be better to be addicted to alcohol or better to be addicted to life? That lowered her brow!
Best of Luck Mate
Did the psych help? Well just talking about my depression did. I learned that I'd come a long way in my outlook on life in the last four months but the journey has only began. She tested my faith and asked if my commitment to a spiritual way of life was not in some way a substitute for addiction. I asked her if it would be better to be addicted to alcohol or better to be addicted to life? That lowered her brow!
Best of Luck Mate
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Hey Baxi, this is a summary of your situation
- you keep returning to drinking even after long breaks
- you've suffered blackouts
- your experience of drinking is negative and at times 'terrifying'
- you binge on the weekends
- you have started drinking in the mornings
My question is 'why is there even an argument in your head about this'? You have all the trappings of a successful life, plus a family that you presumably love, but you could lose it all if you continue down your current path. Maybe you haven't been able to stick with abstinence because you still have this question of whether you're really an alcoholic? Well I think the jury's back now.
- you keep returning to drinking even after long breaks
- you've suffered blackouts
- your experience of drinking is negative and at times 'terrifying'
- you binge on the weekends
- you have started drinking in the mornings
My question is 'why is there even an argument in your head about this'? You have all the trappings of a successful life, plus a family that you presumably love, but you could lose it all if you continue down your current path. Maybe you haven't been able to stick with abstinence because you still have this question of whether you're really an alcoholic? Well I think the jury's back now.
A Day at a Time
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 6,435
We can get off the roller coaster at any time. We get on at the first drink we get off at death or sobriety. Alcohol wants us dead but not before it destroys everything and everyone we value. Sobriety gives us a way out.
When I decided once and for all that alcohol is what was driving my downward spiral, that alcohol simply could not be an option for anything. Then I became part of AA, got a sponsor and worked the steps.
Today I happier than I ever believed possible and I go multiple days without even considering alcohol
When I decided once and for all that alcohol is what was driving my downward spiral, that alcohol simply could not be an option for anything. Then I became part of AA, got a sponsor and worked the steps.
Today I happier than I ever believed possible and I go multiple days without even considering alcohol
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Around and About
Posts: 1,254
Originally Posted by MIRecovery 
We can get off the roller coaster at any time. We get on at the first drink we get off at death or sobriety. Alcohol wants us dead but not before it destroys everything and everyone we value. Sobriety gives us a way out.
When I decided once and for all that alcohol is what was driving my downward spiral, that alcohol simply could not be an option for anything. Then I became part of AA, got a sponsor and worked the steps.
Today I happier than I ever believed possible and I go multiple days without even considering alcohol
When I decided once and for all that alcohol is what was driving my downward spiral, that alcohol simply could not be an option for anything. Then I became part of AA, got a sponsor and worked the steps.
Today I happier than I ever believed possible and I go multiple days without even considering alcohol
A Day at a Time
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 6,435
Originally Posted by Pamel
Thanks MIRecovery, I think I have finally gotten there... I am SO tired of hiding and concealing .... there really is no escape but acceptance. I .... I think ... I finally give up.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Hi, BaxiBermuda, glad you found us. I have a free opinion here, and it's worth every last penny.
You seem to be hung up on the whole concept of alcoholic=I must quit drinking. I think this is a red herring, it just confuses things simply because there are legions who understand they are addicted to alcohol, but keep drinking anyway. After all, of all the reasons to drink, being an alcoholic is one of the best.
Let's change the word above in italics, like this. I can quit drinking. This one is quite a bit different, and there are diverging opinions on this one, but I believe that you can indeed quit. We all can.
One more time, let's change that word again: I have quit drinking. When I arrived at this point, there other two pesky questions dropped away and became irrelevant. The question of some sort of 'must I quit' or 'should I quit' dries up in the face of the facts and past experience. The 'Am I able to quit' question also disappears under the simple expression of self confidence and determination to succeed.
The understanding that you have indeed quit drinking, and quit drinking for good, no matter what, will set you free.
You seem to be hung up on the whole concept of alcoholic=I must quit drinking. I think this is a red herring, it just confuses things simply because there are legions who understand they are addicted to alcohol, but keep drinking anyway. After all, of all the reasons to drink, being an alcoholic is one of the best.
Let's change the word above in italics, like this. I can quit drinking. This one is quite a bit different, and there are diverging opinions on this one, but I believe that you can indeed quit. We all can.
One more time, let's change that word again: I have quit drinking. When I arrived at this point, there other two pesky questions dropped away and became irrelevant. The question of some sort of 'must I quit' or 'should I quit' dries up in the face of the facts and past experience. The 'Am I able to quit' question also disappears under the simple expression of self confidence and determination to succeed.
The understanding that you have indeed quit drinking, and quit drinking for good, no matter what, will set you free.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by baxibermuda
i have the trappings of success family, career , no financial worries never in trouble with the law, I can on occasions have drinks and leave it at. I dont normally drink on weekdays unless i am on holiday but will drimk from friday to sunday night and try and judge when to stop so that i can drive to work.
I can identify with having all those trappings of success as well. I own a business and have never been in trouble with the law. I spent about 8 years trying to perfect the art of managing alcoholism. My Friday to Sunday binges turned to seven days a week. In the end, I found it was much easier to drink all day if I started in the morning.
I hit my bottom just over six months ago. Ended up in the emergency room and then on to rehab for 3 weeks. From there I went into AA.
When I was in rehab my wife called me one night and told me that some of my employees had been calling and friends were wondering what was going on. I sat down that night and sent an email to everyone. For the first time I admitted I was alcoholic and with a click of the mouse, everyone knew. I'd already admitted my powerlessness to my self, even though sometimes I questioned it. Deep down I knew it.
From that point on there was nothing to hide. When I went back to work everyone was supportive. Most didn't know exactly what to say but the fact that they knew allowed me to be open about my situation.
I spent about the first 3 months of sobriety going to meetings and trying to figure out how this whole AA thing really worked. Finally I surrendered to it all and got a sponsor and started working the steps. Last week I went on a seven day Caribbean cruise and didn't come close to taking a drink.
For me, everything's gotten progressively better since I finally admitted my alcoholism and embraced my own spirituality. When I look back at the amount of time I wasted trying to manage alcoholism I am astonished. All the covering up and keeping track of bottles and sleepless nights and wasted days added to up to so much time that I'll never get back.
I'm so lucky! My family still loves me and I still have an opportunity to succeed in business. Many people I've met in recovery have lost so much more. Many of those have lost it all and then rebuilt their lives in sobriety. I want what they have and I've decided to go to any length to get it.
You have to admit to yourself at least that you have a problem. You're the only one that truly knows if you're an alcoholic. From my experience, I'm guessing that most people know their own diagnosis and the addiction keeps telling them that they're okay.
Good luck.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Des Moines IA
Posts: 377
The personality change that's produced by the steps allow us to meet life differently in the difficult situations we'll surely encounter as the years pass without drinking again.
Our guilts have been resolved in the process and we've made peace with our past.
Giving instead of getting has replaced self-centeredness.
We get a neutral attitude toward alcohol. Worrying about drinking, arguing, fighting, talking ourselves down from the edge are not part of AA members lives. I can tell you that the thought of deciding not to drink is foreign to me, something I have to work a bit to imagine.
For those AA members who take the steps and continue to maintain their spiritually-based lives the problem is removed and no longer exists. The members in my group who had 9 months when I came in are either still sober or have died sober during the last 30 years. None have drank. None had to fight or argue with themselves or ignore voices in their heads.
Results from doing replace wished-for results from not doing.
Our guilts have been resolved in the process and we've made peace with our past.
Giving instead of getting has replaced self-centeredness.
We get a neutral attitude toward alcohol. Worrying about drinking, arguing, fighting, talking ourselves down from the edge are not part of AA members lives. I can tell you that the thought of deciding not to drink is foreign to me, something I have to work a bit to imagine.
For those AA members who take the steps and continue to maintain their spiritually-based lives the problem is removed and no longer exists. The members in my group who had 9 months when I came in are either still sober or have died sober during the last 30 years. None have drank. None had to fight or argue with themselves or ignore voices in their heads.
Results from doing replace wished-for results from not doing.
Re-Tread
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Meditation
Posts: 1,300
Trappings of success? Because if youd destroyed those by now it would be easier to stay stopped right?
Stop resisting and this all gets much easier.
I love my trappings these days. So glad I dont have to fight alcohol anymore.
Stop resisting and this all gets much easier.
I love my trappings these days. So glad I dont have to fight alcohol anymore.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 43
Thanks for all the replies i am feeling good today, full of gratitude and getting honest with me regarding alcohol, I am also about to start on the program of recovery and something has seemed to click with me that it is not the amount of alcohol i consumed but how it changes me as a person and alters my perception of reality and no matter how bad it was i would defend alcohol and my mind would tell me it would be different the next time i believe this is what makes me alcoholic.
I also attend gamblers anonymous and have been gambling free for 12 years i thought that working the steps in Ga would keep me sober but this was not the case if anything developing a consciouns intensified the feelings of self hatred and hammered home that the fact that true recovery was being hindered by my alcoholism.
It is apparent that for me to have any lasting and meaningful recovery i have to live clean and for me i have to add alcohol to my ever growing list that includes no gambling, drugging, over eating and messing about with women.
Goodbye for now i am so glad i found the sober recovery website.
I also attend gamblers anonymous and have been gambling free for 12 years i thought that working the steps in Ga would keep me sober but this was not the case if anything developing a consciouns intensified the feelings of self hatred and hammered home that the fact that true recovery was being hindered by my alcoholism.
It is apparent that for me to have any lasting and meaningful recovery i have to live clean and for me i have to add alcohol to my ever growing list that includes no gambling, drugging, over eating and messing about with women.
Goodbye for now i am so glad i found the sober recovery website.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 43
hi back again and an even worse state than before for any one contemplating drinking please dont do it i have been anxious, depressed , suicidal and rattling and shaking all day. i will go back to a meeting tonight and try again i feel so embarrased of what people will think i have told my kids that i am going back to aa so i dont need to hide the fact from them
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
theres a difference between humiliation and humility. by goin back to AA yer showing humility.
what I suggest ya do is decide whether or not you want what we have are willing to go to any lengths to get it. what do we have?
have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body.
a fellowship, a friendliness, and an understanding which is indescribably wonderful.
we have discovered a common solution. We have a way out on which we can absolutely agree, and upon which we can join in brotherly and harmonious action.
A new life has been given us or, if you prefer, "a design for living" that really works.
More and more we became interested in seeing what we could contribute
to life. • As we felt new power flow in, as we enjoyed peace of mind, as we discovered we could face life successfully, as we became conscious of His presence, we began to lose our fear of today, tomorrow or the hereafter.
At once, we commence to outgrow fear.
We have begun to learn tolerance, patience and good will toward all men, even our enemies, for we look on the them as sick people
Once we have taken this step, withholding nothing, we are delighted.
We can look the world in the eye. We can be alone at perfect peace and ease.
Our fears fall from us.
We begin to feel the nearness of our Creator.
We may have had certain spiritual beliefs, but now we begin to have a spiritual experience.
The feeling that the drink problem has disappeared will often come strongly.
We feel we are on the Broad Highway, walking hand in hand with the Spirit of the Universe.
• We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness.
• We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it.
• We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace.
• No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others.
• That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear.
• We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows.
• Self-seeking will slip away.
• Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change.
• Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us.
• We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us.
• We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.
( my personal favorite promises that came true):
• And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone -even alcohol.
• For by this time sanity will have returned.
• We will seldom be interested in liquor.
• If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame.
• We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically.
• We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it.
• We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation.
• We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us.
• We are neither cocky nor are we afraid
life will take on new meaning!
that's only a handful of what we have by working the program.
you mentioned earlier about the great mental debate of whether or not yer an alcoholic. heres what the BB says to do to find out:
We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself. Step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition.
now, just my opinion, but ya have done that. it would seem to me that you now have a full understanding of your condition.
now...do you want what we have? are you willing to go to any lengths to getr it, even if that means standing on yer head in the middle of the street gargling peanutbutter?
PLEASE say yes! getting sober was the hardest thing I ever did. every second of every day was worth it. staying sober has been pretty simple and worth every second.
what I suggest ya do is decide whether or not you want what we have are willing to go to any lengths to get it. what do we have?
have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body.
a fellowship, a friendliness, and an understanding which is indescribably wonderful.
we have discovered a common solution. We have a way out on which we can absolutely agree, and upon which we can join in brotherly and harmonious action.
A new life has been given us or, if you prefer, "a design for living" that really works.
More and more we became interested in seeing what we could contribute
to life. • As we felt new power flow in, as we enjoyed peace of mind, as we discovered we could face life successfully, as we became conscious of His presence, we began to lose our fear of today, tomorrow or the hereafter.
At once, we commence to outgrow fear.
We have begun to learn tolerance, patience and good will toward all men, even our enemies, for we look on the them as sick people
Once we have taken this step, withholding nothing, we are delighted.
We can look the world in the eye. We can be alone at perfect peace and ease.
Our fears fall from us.
We begin to feel the nearness of our Creator.
We may have had certain spiritual beliefs, but now we begin to have a spiritual experience.
The feeling that the drink problem has disappeared will often come strongly.
We feel we are on the Broad Highway, walking hand in hand with the Spirit of the Universe.
• We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness.
• We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it.
• We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace.
• No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others.
• That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear.
• We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows.
• Self-seeking will slip away.
• Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change.
• Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us.
• We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us.
• We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.
( my personal favorite promises that came true):
• And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone -even alcohol.
• For by this time sanity will have returned.
• We will seldom be interested in liquor.
• If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame.
• We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically.
• We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it.
• We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation.
• We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us.
• We are neither cocky nor are we afraid
life will take on new meaning!
that's only a handful of what we have by working the program.
you mentioned earlier about the great mental debate of whether or not yer an alcoholic. heres what the BB says to do to find out:
We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself. Step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition.
now, just my opinion, but ya have done that. it would seem to me that you now have a full understanding of your condition.
now...do you want what we have? are you willing to go to any lengths to getr it, even if that means standing on yer head in the middle of the street gargling peanutbutter?
PLEASE say yes! getting sober was the hardest thing I ever did. every second of every day was worth it. staying sober has been pretty simple and worth every second.
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