PippiLngstockng

Hi all . I am stepping over the Al anon -AA border to try to get some more clarity. Briefly, I have been married 17 years to my very high-functioning closet drinker husband. We have 4 superb children and lovely homes on each side of the Atlantic. I'm his pretty darned lovely wife . We have a good life, we do lots of sports, traveling, friends ...

But my STBXH wants to do what he wants to do - without having to divulge much about it. Doesn't want to be honest, look me in the eyes, share his work life, apologize for his occasionally abusive behavior, or admit that his drinking might be a problem.

How can he give up his four amazing children though? Since his behavior has become more scary/scanalous, I have told him it is over between us. Given that I am happily reestablished in Europe, I have decided I am staying here with the children and he has no choice in this matter. So he hardly sees the children.

I figured that by now he would wake up a little and realize what a mess he's made...but no. No change as far as I can see. What is he thinking?!

Btw, i am not ever getting back together with him. He has scared me too much. But for the children, it sure would be nice if he'd make an effort to turn himself around. He started going to a few AA meetings for the first time this summer because he says he finds them interesting. But he says that he is not really an alcoholic. But he does admit to being controlling and cruel at times.

Caldus

PippiLngstockng,

It's good that you came over to this forum to get a perspective from another alcoholic. I'm a recovering alcoholic that is about 5 months into sobriety now. My experience with working with other alcoholics and attending AA meetings so far is that an alcoholic has to decide that he or she is an alcoholic and no one else can make that decision for them. Until they admit it, there is not a single thing anyone else (or even a close family member or friend) can do about it. They have to believe in their heart that they have a problem before they might finally seek help for it.

That has been my personal experience too. The first time I quit and went to AA, I was mainly doing it because my mom found out about my drinking. I wasn't doing it for me. This resulted in me only staying sober for 2 weeks basically. So I went back out for several more months.

After a long while, things started getting real rough at work for me. I was coming in very hungover all the time and just couldn't ever get anything done right. So it started to get pretty heavy and for the first time in my life I was scared that I might lose my job. That's when I finally realized that I need to seek help for my drinking problem. So this time I'm doing it for me and as a result I've been sober for about 5 months now.

Also, I've met a lot of other alcoholics in AA and my experience has been that close family members and friends end up becoming part of the alcoholic's "vortex of doom" as I like to call it (hence the need for programs like Al-Anon). Until they stop, realize they have a problem, and start doing something about it, they are not going to care one bit what sort of damage they have done to other people in life. Alcohol is cunning and powerful and it really warps the minds of even the nicest people (like me). I started doing things I never imagined I would do.

I hope this helps. Stay strong and realize that this is his problem and until he deals with it, just work your Al-Anon program the best you can and get whatever support you need. But he has to deal with himself. I was one of those "high-functioning" types too but eventually one day he may find himself not functioning all that well. Maybe then he will seek help. Good luck!

LexieCat

Hi, Pippi,

I've been on both sides of the alcohol problem, and although I wasn't married when my drinking spiraled out of control, I had kids from a previous marriage who did not live with me. My drinking interfered with my ability to be the kind of mom I wanted to be.

It wasn't that I didn't love my kids, and it wasn't that I intended to be neglectful, but I was so wrapped up in myself and my little dramas and my addiction that I was pretty much oblivious to the needs of my kids. I also reasoned that because their dad and stepmom were taking such good care of them they didn't need as much of my time and attention. Of course, that wasn't true, but it was one of my rationales that kept me from looking at what I was doing.

Because, above all, no alcoholic wants to see the truth. The truth is painful, and it's ugly, and it's embarrassing, and if we really SEE it, it's a buzzkill. We are in the grip of an addiction that wants to survive at all costs, and it can't afford for us to see what we are really doing.

I hope for the sake of your STBX and your kids that he eventually chooses recovery. Right now it looks as if he isn't ready to see what his alcoholism is doing to anyone, including himself.

Xune

It is generally accepted that addicts won't get their act together until they decide that they want to stop using and then act on that.

In my opinion, it is no more complicated than that.

I was the drunk in my family, I accepted I had a problem, accepted I had to stop, got help and now I'm sober.

laurie6781

While I was still in the throes of practicing my disease, I was focused on ONE THING
and ONE THING only......................... MY ALCOHOL, how much I had left, when
would I need to get more, how I would get more and ......................doG help any
one who got in my way.

That included spouse, then SO, children, and family.

Only once I found recovery and slowly became capable of again joining the human
race, did I really start to realize what devastation I had caused. Now true that
was many years ago, but as I grew in my recovery, it also became very clear that
I had BIG codependency issues and at exactly 3 years sober my sponsor told me
in no uncertain terms that it was time to also attend Alanon and to get an Alanon
sponsor in addition to her. I will be forever grateful that I was able to follow her
direction!

Right now, even though he will not admit it, alcohol is your STBXAH's first and
only love is ALCOHOL. ALCOHOL is his MISTRESS.

Hopefully, some day, he will find his bottom, and enter recovery and then one
day will be able to re-establish a relationship with his children. Hopefully also
his children are getting counseling now so that they can live a whole and com-
plete adult life without the problems that Adult Children of Alcoholics seem to
have.

Sending healing thoughts and prayers to your and your children.

Love and hugs,

ReadyAndAble

Hi, welcome and thanks for reaching out. I'm not in AA, but I'm a dad and an ex-drunk, so I'll toss in my own experience for whatever it's worth.

I kept drinking even after I had admitted to myself I was an alcoholic. I kept drinking even after I began to consider the possibility I was slowly killing myself—and maybe not all that slowly. And here's the worst part: I'm a single parent with joint custody; half the week, my lil' one would be sleeping in her room while I knocked back drink after drink until I passed out. Nice, huh? It still stings to think about that; most shameful memory I've got, no doubt about it. It's been two years since I finally quit. The time I spend with my daughter—being really present and focused—is far and away the biggest reward of quitting. I'm smiling now just thinking about it, lol..

But here's the rub: I loved my daughter just as much when I was drinking as I do now. I guess my point is that all the selfish, stupid, horrible choices I made were a measure of my addiction, not a measure of my love.

I'm sorry you and your family have had to deal with this. I hope for their sake he takes action soon, but am glad you and your kids have found peace and stability across the sea.

TheEnd

These questions are always difficult, because we dont' t know him, you know him better than we do. My alcoholic behavior does not define his alcoholic behavior. That being said, it appears that at this point, alcohol is more important than his family.

caboblanco

well you are seperated and now the ball is in his court. I don't know if there is much you can really do but to take care of your kids

paul99

Very well said - I too am a dad who loved my son to death, and still chose alcohol even when it was dangerous to do so. The only difference is that I too am present and try to be the best father I can to him and our new son.

Hollyanne

Recovery requires a lot of effort, time and pain.
It is very hard to risk opening up and admitting and seeking help for alcoholism.
Depending on what your STBExH does for a living, that might be a factor.
Sometimes you have to be broken to pieces and rebuilt.
Can he do that?
Is that practical for him?
I have taken a huge financial hit to get and stay sober.
I don't have a family to think of.
I could care less about material things at this point.
That is my choice.
If I had a spouse and four children to support, it may not have been so easy/practical to walk away from all the responsibility.
From my experience with alcoholics, all the love in the world and their love for their children and wives/husbands didn't stop them destroying their lives and the lives of those around them.
When the alcoholic chooses to stop drinking, it is at the point that the pain of drinking is more than the pain of stopping.
Not everybody can get to that moment, and reach that conclusion, and do what needs to be done.
It is not, as frequently misinterpreted by people, that alcoholics do not love.
They are being controlled by their addiction.
The only one that can break out of that prison, is themselves.

Just enjoy your relative peace and freedom from the madness.
Glad the kids are away from the mayhem too.
AlAnon, AlAnon, AlAnon.

PippiLngstockng

Thanks everyone. I have been doing so much to understand our family's situation. I used to not even have any framework with which to understand what was happening to us. Since my StbXAH started getting much worse in his behavior and probably drinking, it has actually gotten easier to figure out finally and to take the steps necessary to get myself and the children detangled from the mess. For this I am grateful. I can move forward confidently with the emerging clarity. But it has taken an enormous amount of effort, in part because AH is so good at hiding things and because with 4 children I didn't have the time or desire to look at things too closely. Why look a very scary problem straight in the face if you don't think you can do a thing about it?!

Hey, maybe that is the state AH currently finds himself in, eh?!

I have really thought about your feedback and added with the few rare glimmers of truth AH shared in what may have been a few days of sobriety he had during a crisis this past summer, here is what I think he is telling himself:

"I lack discipline. I do things half- a**ed. Recovery is for a different kind of person."
"I couldn't be in recovery and function at work at the level I need to to continue to support our family."
" My wife may be impossible but she is great with the children. She can take care of them. She just needs me for the money."
"Anyone would be happy to be in my wife's situation. She is just so impossible to satisfy. She should learn to grit her teeth and bare things and keep at it like I do."
But mostly I don't think he is thinking about us. He seems to be practically incapable of being honest with himself or me/us. He is very attached to maintaining his secrets - a sort of double life he has been leading for ages. He doesn't seem to think that one life has anything to do with the other. He is also very tough both mentally and physically. So getting to his personal bottom may take a LOT.

I really thought that he would fight for recovery for the sake of the children. He does love them so. Thank you for helping me to see that this isn't a matter of lacking love. It is a matter of a horribly strong addiction.

I am just grateful to be - hopefully - getting myself and the children out of this mess and to a safer, happier place in our lives. I am scared, but I know my higher power is there to guide me through.

LexieCat

I think you have probably hit it on the head.

I suggest you explain it to the kids that way, too--that Dad loves them but he is very sick and can't be the kind of Dad he would probably like to be if he weren't so sick. It's important that kids not feel it's something about them that makes them unloveable.

Al-Anon for you, and Alateen for them might be very helpful.

PippiLngstockng

Hi all,
I thought I was done here, but I realize I'm not.

The thing is, to me loving my children means being responsible to them. They need me and like most parents I do everything I can for them. Along the way, I admire them, have fun with them, brag about them...

But I'm not a grandparent or a great aunt. I am there - hopefully - when they need disciplining, homework support, late night conversations about God, or help making sure they catch the bus on time. To me parental love is active and messy and IS responsibility. I have to be completely all there to catch my 12 year old each time she crosses the line and says something sassy to me. I have to be there to notice that my 15 year old snuck a mountain bike magazine into the bathroom and so now he's hiding out in there to avoid doing his homework. I notice when my 6 year old is lying, but the lie is coming from an active imagination and help her channel all that into making up a really good story to write down and illustrate. I see from the corner of my eye that my 9 year old isn't playing with his usual friend at the soccer field and there might be something up with that.

Isn't that what parental love dictates we do? And if we are so wrapped up in drama/self/addiction like my AH, then he still loves his children, but he might as well be their great aunt right now because he just likes to post pictures of them and watch them play while he's got a buzz on.

I am working this all out here, btw, cause he's coming back in 2 weeks and wants the kids for overnights and I hearing my HP saying 'No Way'.

If he wants unsupervised consecutive visits with the children, he will have to go to rehab first - and stay solidly in recovery for a year me thinks.

I felt reassured to hear that he still loves the children the same.

But it isn't the same, is it, if he isn't taking measures to be a responsible parent?

Received

I know for me, I had to think of myself as a single parent and shift into that role.

This doesn't mean I ignored my children's questions about their dad but I never spoke badly about him. I didn't sugar coat things either; they had seen too much.

I always made sure they were never in a position to overhear any conversation I was having on the phone or f2f with another. This was very important. I had to be very diligent with this. I've seen too many people, over the years, talk on the phone or to another, while their children were right there in the room as if they were invisible.

I'm totally with you in making sure he has some consecutive time away from drinking before you allow him to be alone with the children.

Anyway, that is my perspective as a parent of a problem marriage.

I used to drink a lot but I stopped for my kids. I put my all into my kids, they were daily hope, a reason to get out of bed.

I don't know if this helps you and I do wish you the very best.

ccharlotte

Hello PippiLngstockng,

I am married to a man who has a very serious prescription pill addiction. I hear a few similarities in my own husband's personality and find myself asking the same question. My husband has an amazing job, a loving wife, amazing home, family, yet he chooses to hide and do drugs alone instead of being with those he loves. He is now dealing with serious legal consequences of his drug use and that isn't even enough of a determent. It may be my complete mental fatigue speaking but I've found that often there are no good answers to why addicts do what they do. Searching or trying to understand irrational behavior will just drive you crazy. I often think the addicts themselves do not understand why they do what they do, but many do not want to admit that. In moments of great emotional vulnerability, my very prideful, powerful husband has admitted that he is scared of himself because he doesn't understand why he uses when he knows he can loose everything and even end up in jail. I believe him. Good luck and take care of yourself.