The scientific approach
 

Hi

When I first started investigating getting clean, I started seeing a lot of stuff about AA. I looked into that, but to me it seemed incredibly religious, in a Christian-American kind of way. This is massively removed from who I am as a person, and if I am totally honest, pretty laughable. It reminded me of a Free Mason induction ceremony.

I was put off attending mainly because this seemed to be the vibe of the whole thing, and I was wondering if anybody else has felt the same?

Anyway, to get to the main point of this post, I have been thinking over the past few days, that getting oneself off alcohol has nothing to do with divine powers or any of that stuff, and is merely a case of not drinking, and letting your body recover. Part of this recovery involves a great deal of mental / emotional anguish, which is no doubt the thing that drives people back to drinking, and is most likely what all this talk in AA about giving in to a power greater than yourself is all about; glamourising and dressing up a difficult part of recovery, which could be summed up better for a lot of people by just informing them that they are going to be feeling very upset, anxious, emotional etc, but that this stage will pass with abstinence.

Slightly rambling post, I realise, but I suppose my point is; I found it frustrating that the main group that seems to offer help to alcoholics prescribes a non-secular program, rather than one of simple, matter of fact scientific explanations and game plans / scheduling. I am in no doubt that they offer a very very important and worthwhile service, but it seems a shame to me that they have to bring 'God' into it all.

So there!

Ha.

*grabs a cold compress*

I think you'll find you've opened a can of worms there ZA...


for some people this is obviously true - for others it is not - there's also many others of us dotted at various other coordinates along the continuum of recovery.

I think we'd do ourselves a great service here if we'd step away, even just a little, from universal statements.

what you find 'pretty laughable' others will be along to tell you saved their lives.

Please everyone - remember this forum is built on a principle of mutual respect.

D

Someone found a way that worked for them, shared it with some other people and it worked for them, and so on and so on.

If you have a way that works for you, please share it with others and if it works for them, ask then to pass it on as well.

That's how it works.

Share what works.

AA is not a conspiracy, it's a fellowship of people who have found a way out of active alcoholism.

Yes I find the words 'pretty laughable' more than a bit disrespectful. And ending the post with....

So there,
Ha

I'm surprised this post was not removed.

I could be draconian - it'd make my job easier - but I'm not sure it'd really in anyones interests but my own.

I don't know what the OPs motivation was, but I think he'll learn more by the post staying up than me taking it down.

Moderation here is not like American Idol or something where the viewer votes.

Anyone here knows that. You either trust my judgement or go to Admin.

I don't see any report posts on this thread and I haven't got any PMs.

Please do me and the other mods the courtesy of following the correct channels thanks.

I much prefer doing my laundry in private.

D

No can of worms here... I wish you the best ZA !

Bob R

Frankly, I don't quite understand your post, ZombieAttack. But, hey, if it keeps you sober/recovered then have at it.

A lot of people feel indifferent to AA but there are other support groups if you care to find them. Even simply trying to find other recovering addicts in rehab programs and spending time with them at the coffee shop can help.

that's my cue Sudz - thanks :)

There's *many* different approaches and methods of recovery around - here's some links to some of the main players:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...formation.html

I recommend anyone visit the Secular Connections forum if you think you may benefit from a non 12 step approach.

D

It's not important at all that you understand. Just be glad it works as well as it does for those of us who are involved.

During all those runs when I couldn't stay sober for longer than a few months at a time I wasn't a very nice guy. Some of the mindless things I'd do and say were truely laughable, but I didn't have sufficient awareness to be embarassed for myself.

Not really that unusual.

Maybe there's a reason for AA being the main group for alcoholics?

ok...sorry but I'm LOL.

ZA, I'm pickin' up what you're puttin' down. It's sort of the same reason the "one day at a time" approach doesn't work for me. I feel like that is placating my addiction, the same way I sometimes tell my kids "we'll see" or "maybe" when in fact I mean "no", but I am placating them to avoid a showdown.
With quitting the booze, my preference was to have the showdown, and make it though the ensuing raging tantrums that my addiction threw before it calmed down and accepted that drinking was no longer an option. Nothing spiritual about the process for me.

But that doesn't mean my way is right, it's just right for me.

You make some good points ZA, but if you want others to really hear you, you might consider framing your ideas differently. I love the "so there...ha!" approach, but trust me when I tell you that not everyone has the same appreciation for sophomoric humor. ;)

If you represent the solution to alcoholism, we are all doomed. ROFL...I'm sure you're a nice kid, though.

My belief lies somewhere in the middle. Science only really has any value to the alcoholic (to this point anyway) during detox and say, the first few months of sobriety. After that, it's up to the individual-the same individual who likely quit drinking hundreds of times before. If you believe in science then you must believe in the genetic component of alcoholism- that the alcoholics brain was abnormal before the drink, during the drink, and after the drink. Until science cures the way the alcoholic's brain handles dopamine, we are left to rely on each other, which is what "god" is in AA. God is everything that isn't you. Science can be God. Anyways, thanks for reminding me where my denial could take me if I drink again.

Not doomed...alas, we have you!!

I'm an Atheist and am not in AA.

I think AA is a wonderful program for a lot of people, Atheists included.

If you don't want to join AA, then don't.

:DA:dig:horse

"...but trust me when I tell you that not everyone has the same appreciation for sophomoric humor"

Clearly ;)

theres one thing about scientific facts about alcoholism:
until all of science can agree, it isnt a fact and all of sciene doesnt agree.

if it doesnt work for ya, find something that does, then help others by sharing how that helped you stop drinking.

20 years ago, my parents went bankrupt.
They were high profile in a small town.
The sheriff came to repossess the family business which included the family home.
The police were there.
My father was very very drunk and distraught and was burning his personal effects and brandishing a loaded shotgun at his family and the others present.
He was approached by my sister against the advice of everyone.
She took the gun from him and told him he had to go to the hospital for help and then to the local rehab. The local doctor was there and was on standby to arrange this.

My father dropped the fight and simply begged my sister not "to do that to me".
He has never drank again.
He is 83 now, in excellent health. My mother and he are married for 50 years.
That was his bottom.

I went to AA and stopped 2 years ago.
I guess I didn't feel like doing it the exciting way.

To each their own.
It is just a case of finding a way out of the insanity.

The acronym H.A.L.T, I learned from AA.
Don't get hungry, angry, lonely, or tired.
I don't see the religion there.
Just, before I dive head-first into a bottle of Bacardi, I am going to eat, chill out, call or visit someone or go to bed.

Anyone else have things that got them stopped?
When you had a few weeks under your belt, what kept you stopped?
Why didn't you drink after a year?
2 years?
10 years?
What is easier about your life today?
Do you look better?
Work better?
Relate to others better?
Tell us these things and quit bangin' on at other programs.
They all work.
I threw everything at it.
The more someone shares about what works the better.
I just roll my eyes at these kinds of arguments.
Pointless, pointless, pointless.
And by the time I come up with the energy to respond, the thread has been closed.
Sober Recovery.
Recovering, trying to recover, recovered, quitting, on the wagon, dragged by the wagon, whatever, we are mostly in the same wagon.
:ring

I tried to quit using logic and reason but failed miserably because alcoholism is a complex, multifaceted illness. Science can only explain so much.

I came to AA an Agnostic and nearly 12 years later I am still an Agnostic and utilize AA as my program of recovery. AA worked for me. I was desperate enough to set aside what on the surface appeared to be religious aspects of the program long enough to find out the difference between religious and spiritual. I do not find AA to be a religious program. There is no common "God," and no "God" is worshiped.

The bottom line is the program of AA saved my life. I have no doubt that I would be dead if it were not for the lifeline that AA put out for me. That aside I do know people who have found sobriety through other methods and programs so I do know that AA is not the only route to recovery. It just happens to be the program that worked for me.

Rather than run other programs or methods down just because they did not work for me or I did not understand them I choose to accept the fact that they do work for others and many lives have been saved because they are there. Personally, I would rather encourage others by talking about what works rather than find fault with programs that I have either never tried or that did not work for me. I would rather not be the reason a person chose not to try the very program that might have saved their life just because that program was one I did not understand or did not work for me.