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Advice from the Other Side of this...

Old 12-09-2012, 04:48 PM
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Advice from the Other Side of this...

I sooooo hope it's okay to come in here and ask those living through their sobriety a few questions?

My husband is an alcoholic. I see his struggles every single day. If they aren't with trying a new beginning to start over and give it a go, they are drowned in a bottle of vodka. It is so sad to see this and he's the type that one drink is too much and he's admitted it.

Last night, as if reality isn't screaming at me already that this is too much for him to bear and me too, he called off work. I have been reading that alcoholism is a progreesive disease and believe me when I tell you that I've seen him go from *lets say he portrayed himself as* normal from the start of our relationship to just 3 weeks ago, possesed by a demon. So, 3 years and all I have seen is this alcohol possess him. The first year, I felt was good. He was a great liar and hider. I had no idea. Then the second year... wow. After we got married it was like a coming out party. I don't think I've ever been with a person with so much disrequard for their life and the life of others all in the name of another drink.

My husband has enjoyed 20 years of sobriety. Although I did not know him, he touts that and carries it around like a badge but in reality, that is over and done with as of 2009 when he traded it in for a drunken fool award. (I'm mad, and I'm so sorry)

3 weeks ago, he decided that he would engorge himself on an 8 day bender and call off from work for 3 days while I was out of the house doing something for me that I love to do. When I got home, I entered Satan's House and that was that. He fought between 2 emotions and could not decide which one was getting him further- anger or sadness. It was a very long night for me.

I'm getting to my point here.... I'm sorry with all the back ground but I think it's important to the question I want answered...

That night, I called his best friend who married us and spilled the beans. He and my husband went to school together, partied together, did drugs together, went to the Army... they were the typical boys turning into men, causing trouble, drinking and drugging til his buddy found God, got sober and enjoys a whole other life that benefits him and his family. My husband worked at sobriety but he fell off the wagon and I can envision him being drug by a horse and wagon, hanging on for dear life, getting on and falling off over and over and over again. It's so exhausting.

My main thing is right now is that I wouldn't believe him if his tongue came noterized. He;s lied to me so much and refused help. Actually, called for help himself, set up appt only to tell me, I CAN DO IT ON MY OWN! I don;t want to go but I;ll go for you if you want me too. It doesn't work for me.

I just found out today that he's lied to me about AA. He said he's gone in the past and it doesn't work for him. When the truth is, He's NEVER Gone! SMH. I know what he's doing... he's protecting his drink.

I told him today he needs to use his 5 weeks of vacation on 30 days of inpatient rehab. He sat there with his head low shaking it yes and wanting help. I could hear it and see it but I don't believe it.

I've been up for 2 days with little sleep. I came home this morning as he snored like a baby sprawled out in bed, and grabbed my pillows and blanket and headed to the couch. I told him I can't share myself right now, I'm hurting because I want him to get help and I'm in a helpless situation because I know I can't fix it. So, by the time the inpatient rehab, I'm going to be gone for 4-5 weeks sunk in, I woke up for work and He doesn't want to do it! He says he'll go to conseling, he'll go to AA, he'll do out-patient but no inpatient... But... Is it enough to help him if he *wants* to do it?

I don't know where to turn but to the source itself and that's why I'm here asking you. Can you please offer me some kind of advice? I told him if he does not get a grip and take care of himself that this will end our marriage because I swear, I can't watch this train ride to hell, let alone ride it.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:02 PM
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i thank you for posting this. i need a reminder evry now and then of what i was.
welp, these are suggestions comin from my side( yer husband, who sounds a lot like me):
he is a sick man, but dont believe a dam thinG. what his motives are for saying he wants help? welp, for me when i did that in the past it was a huge lie to get people off my back.

you dont have to stay on the train ride. the best move everyone who was ever associated with me made was to throw me out of their lives. the day after my last drunk, it was my then fiance telling me what i had done and said in ablackout, then telling me,"get out! pack your **** and get the **** out!" that got it through my head i had a serious problem and it was then that i finaly completely admitted i wanted help...for me.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:53 PM
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you can't help him to do anything.....

al anon for you

AA can work for those who really want to work those 12 steps.
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:03 PM
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I hope that your husband seeks the help and support he needs.

AlAnon could be a good option for support for yourself.
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:09 PM
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To answer your bolded question, basically, is outpatient treatment and AA enough for someone to quit, the answer is an unequivocal "yes". Some people do better with inpatient, but many do just fine with outpatient. It's not necessarily a lesser type of treatment than inpatient.

But the person's attitude is the key to the whole thing. At every AA meeting there are people who are only present because they have to get something signed for a parole officer or a judge, or maybe their significant other forced them to go. They stick out like a sore thumb. Is AA doing any good for these people? Highly unlikely.

If, on the other hand, your husband is really serious about getting help, then he can see a doctor in an outpatient setting and get medication, if needed, to detox safely, plus professional counseling. And the fellowship of AA can help him learn how to maintain sobriety. You'll know he's serious, in my opinion, if he gets a sponsor and works closely with him, works the steps dilligently, and stops rationalizing having even one or two beers as being okay. AA is designed for chronic alcoholics, i.e. people who cannot stop drinking on their own. Admitting that we're powerless over alcohol is the first step, and if someone hasn't truly realized this, the other 11 steps will have limited, if any, positive effect.

Have you considered going to a meeting with him? Going to AA the first time can be pretty intimidating. Why not find an "open" meeting and join him on his first meeting or two? And Al Anon might benefit you as well.

Best of luck to you.
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:31 PM
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Thank you AnotherPaul.

I know that I can not help him. He has to do it and it's his choice when it's time to split hairs. I have been to AlAnon and will continue to go for me. I have admitted my part in this and I am powerless. He has also admitted to me and himself that he too is powerless and out of control in his words. He feels he's a terrible liar and can't hide it any longer.

What I can do is help guide him and like that old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but not make him drink.

I have felleted myself open to him and told him many times that I would walk the path of the unknown with him but he wasn't ready. I would climb the highest mountain for him. I would accept him going to counceling, us going to counceling, him going to AA n me AlAnon, him seeking a physician's help, I would do what ever he asked me to do to make the transition into this as easy as possible because I know he is scared. I'm scared.

The trust is broken. That's unfortunate with this disease. I did tell him that I would forgive him if he can seek treatment and work on a way to get well. Everyone has to start somewhere. I want him to know that when he starts, he'll start with his hand in mine n we'll go together into the unknown world and as long as he goes, I'll be right there beside him.

He thinks he can't just walk into AA n pull up a chair. I told him he can. He said he will.

I pray for him every night of every day. I don't want him to walk alone. He's my husband.
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by tomsteve View Post
i thank you for posting this. i need a reminder evry now and then of what i was.
welp, these are suggestions comin from my side( yer husband, who sounds a lot like me):
he is a sick man, but dont believe a dam thinG. what his motives are for saying he wants help? welp, for me when i did that in the past it was a huge lie to get people off my back.

you dont have to stay on the train ride. the best move everyone who was ever associated with me made was to throw me out of their lives. the day after my last drunk, it was my then fiance telling me what i had done and said in ablackout, then telling me,"get out! pack your **** and get the **** out!" that got it through my head i had a serious problem and it was then that i finaly completely admitted i wanted help...for me.
Thanks Tomsteve for being so honest. BoxinRot needs to hear this from someone like you. Amazing what great liars we drunks can be . Too bad we only end up losing the ones we love and need . .......but as long as we learn and can help others--that's all we can do .

Happy to hear your life is on the right track.
Stay Strong,
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BoxinRotz View Post
My main thing is right now is that I wouldn't believe him if his tongue came noterized.
He's a liar TrixMixer. How else do you want me to write it for you to know that I know that he's a liar.

His actions speak louder than his words. I don't believe a THING that comes out of his mouth... only what goes in it.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:12 PM
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I have a hard time reading these posts from family members sometimes because they remind me of how I used to be, and more specifically, how I treated my own wife during our whole marriage.

I was already an alcoholic by the time we were married - I didn't know it at the time though. Things went well for a time, and then the dishonesty started. It started around how much I drank and what time I was out drinking until, then spilled into other parts of our lives. I was finding myself getting sicker and sicker. Lies spilled out of my mouth every moment. Work was always a pain in the neck, I hated everyone, I was blaming everyone for all my worries, and I continued to drink.

Then the drinking went underground, and things went from bad to worse. While i never laid a hand on my wife ever, my emotional and mental abuse was enough to keep our home strained more times than not. Jobs started to slip away, I was ill more than I was healthy and I was doing things I shouldn't have been doing with people I shouldn't have been with in places I shouldn't have been in. All this time I claimed I didn't drink!

And the lies kept rolling in. I protected my drinking in any way I could. I vowed to put myself together, to continue with my therapy, to exercise more, etc. I made many emotional appeals and put on great shows of remorse (which were real at the time, but once the heat was off, I went back to my old ways).

In the end, after many hospital visits, job losses, financial strain, mental and emotional breakdowns and an arrest, I was done. I went into treatment and AA and haven't had a drink since. Now, I mention all this to identify much about what your husband is going through. I see a lot of my actions and thoughts and feelings in the actions and words you describe about your husband.

So, if he's anything like me, he will continue to weasel out of things to protect his drinking. He will say and do anything, at that moment to take the heat off, and then go right back to where he wants to be. I know that's how I operated. And, sadly, it gets easier to lie. I was only sorry when I got caught.

But having said all that, after in-patient treatment (and after 6 months of being out of the matrimonial home and not seeing my son much), where I learned about AA and started working the steps of AA, my wife noticed a change enough about me to have me back in the house. Life now is completely different that it was before. I am not the same man, and she has grown as well. She was willing to do what you are - walk to hell and back. I am so very lucky to have her, and make sure that I show it in some way daily.

But you already know that it has to come from him. Treatment was full of guys who were there for their girlfriends, the court, their family, work...and those were the guys who never made it. Those who were open-minded, honest and willing and doing it for themselves...they were the ones who had a grand chance at it. I assumed my marriage was over. But i still did it. Your husband needs to want it for him first and foremost. And if that means that you aren't in the picture when he makes that decision....well, that is your choice, of course. But as easily as he protects his drinking, protect yourself as well. Don't go for the ride at the expense of losing yourself. Then two lives are lost.

Good luck - I hope he gets there sooner than later.

Please take care of yourself.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:18 PM
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You said your husband had 20 years of sobriety. This says he has the ability to stay sober. How did he accomplish this in the past and what was his reasoning for returning to drinking?
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:40 PM
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As others have already said. I agree with the fact that you need to take care of yourself first and foremost. That is #1. Your happiness should not be determined by the actions of your husband.

Your husband sounds a lot like me and others. Selfish and self-centered to the max. I, too, would do all the lip service in order to get people off my back. I would make promises I wouldn't keep over and over. This went on for a long time. You said you know what he is doing, protecting his drink. That's exactly it. I did it for a very, very long time. I was searching for an answer to be able to do it on my own and a reason why I was so unhappy without having to give up the drinking. I was convinced in my mind that there had to be something else causing my unhappiness. I truly thought it couldn't be the alcohol or drugs, because those actually arrested the depressive symptoms temporarily. But it was just that, a temporary fix to a permanent (at the time) problem.

When I was drinking, I couldn't control how much I drank, and when I wasn't drinking I was obsessing about it and very restless, irritable, and discontent with life. Then I found a solution. My solution happens to be the steps of AA. It works for many people, but there are other methods that work for others.

Generally, if he does go to out-patient treatment (which seems like the most logical and path of least resistance at this point), they are most commonly 12-step based. They will once again suggest complete abstinence from alcohol and he start the program. You will truly see his commitment to this at that point. All that is really needed at that point is open-mindedness to the fact that he cannot do this on his own.

I wish you the best.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TheEnd View Post
You said your husband had 20 years of sobriety. This says he has the ability to stay sober. How did he accomplish this in the past and what was his reasoning for returning to drinking?
Yes, he *had* 20 years of sobriety.

His ex wife left him. He was with her for 3 years and married for 1. They had just had a baby and she said NO MORE. He put her through hell and he must have hit his bottom when he lost her and his baby boy who is now 24 years old.

He told me he went through a 90 day in patient treatment facility. He said he was given *tools* to work through his problems with alcohol and he used them successfully. He joined a gym and devoted 20 years to body building. It was his new life.

When I met him, he was proud of who he was and that sobriety even though it was gone. He was proud of the way he looked as a 52 year old man. He wanted everyone to believe he had it all. He has a good job at the DOC. He was financially secure and had just bought a house in 2009. Had a brand new car and a Harley that he always wanted. All of this was a first for him.

Then he told me, after the fact, that he thought he could handle a drink. And that drink had a bottomless pit and he has yet to pull himself out of it. Every time I have mentioned a treatment plan he has said, I have the tools to do this myself but I do believe that his tools have rusted from not being used. I don't believe for one second that he can do this alone and on his own because this is not the first time he has said, I can do this by myself.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:47 PM
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paul99~ You posted the other day in another thread something that my husband said to me right after his 8 day bender 3 weeks ago and it went something like this...

This bottle will be different.

That's the mind set he goes into when he buys a bottle. I told my husband today that by saying, *This bottle will be different* is like watching a rerun and expecting another outcome even though you've watched it over 20 times and you know how it's going to end but yet you want to believe some how, some way it will be different.

Wouldn't you just sh!t yourself watching a movie you know will end the way it always has and you watch it again, and it's rewritten. He was like wow. I never thought of that.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by BoxinRotz View Post
Every time I have mentioned a treatment plan he has said, I have the tools to do this myself but I do believe that his tools have rusted from not being used. I don't believe for one second that he can do this alone and on his own because this is not the first time he has said, I can do this by myself.
Alcoholism is a progressive disease. The tools that got him sober 20 years ago are now too small and light-duty to the job now (even if they weren't rusted).
At this point, he will need some kind of rehab followed by a support group.

Even then, his odds are slim. You need to build boundaries that will protect you if he fails.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:00 AM
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They don't have to go to a meeting alone.

They (the alcoholic) can pick up the phone and call the local AA office some men will come over to your home personally and talk to him about AA and getting sober.

Usually these guys that are on call for the program are amazing men who give of themselves generously and will help a newcomer get past the fear of change and new people.

Picking up the phone is an easier first step. Asking them for help and a suggestion for a good temporary sponsor that might make sense with the logistics involved (location etc).

If this took place he could theoretically have a sponsor, a couple of new friends in the program and he hasn't left his easy chair. He has people who can take him to his first meeting and support from day one.

Painted in the corner is when you get recovery noises but what counts is the action.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by BoxinRotz View Post
He's a liar TrixMixer. How else do you want me to write it for you to know that I know that he's a liar.

His actions speak louder than his words. I don't believe a THING that comes out of his mouth... only what goes in it.
BoxinR,

You know exactly what is going on , I know that. Sometimes it is just good to hear from others that this kind of behavior ruins lives.....and love.

I give you credit for knowing he is a liar and will say anything he needs to you, if he thinks it will keep you in HIS life but OFF his back. YOU know this cannot go on like this. Only you can make this decission, but if you really believe he is not going to change for the sake of loving you, then it is time for you to take a long hard look at weather HE is worth your love and loyalty.

Sometimes letting go out of Love is the only way. You cannot let him take you down with him, especially since you have made it clear how loyal you are, and he still won't do it.

I know you can't chose who you fall in love with, but you can chose to love yourself more than a man who lies to you.

Pretty Simple "either he grows a pair or he loses the one thing he loves more than his booze"

(I know easy for me to say , right?)

I sincerely hope you two can work this out for the sake of your love for each other.

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Old 12-10-2012, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by BoxinRotz View Post
Yes, he *had* 20 years of sobriety.

His ex wife left him. He was with her for 3 years and married for 1. They had just had a baby and she said NO MORE. He put her through hell and he must have hit his bottom when he lost her and his baby boy who is now 24 years old.

He told me he went through a 90 day in patient treatment facility. He said he was given *tools* to work through his problems with alcohol and he used them successfully. He joined a gym and devoted 20 years to body building. It was his new life.

When I met him, he was proud of who he was and that sobriety even though it was gone. He was proud of the way he looked as a 52 year old man. He wanted everyone to believe he had it all. He has a good job at the DOC. He was financially secure and had just bought a house in 2009. Had a brand new car and a Harley that he always wanted. All of this was a first for him.

Then he told me, after the fact, that he thought he could handle a drink. And that drink had a bottomless pit and he has yet to pull himself out of it. Every time I have mentioned a treatment plan he has said, I have the tools to do this myself but I do believe that his tools have rusted from not being used. I don't believe for one second that he can do this alone and on his own because this is not the first time he has said, I can do this by myself.
I doubt his tools have gotten rusted up, if that is even possible. From what you say, it doesn't even sound like he's taken them out of the tool box, so you will never know what he has. He has to want to get sober, more than he wants to drink and it doesn't seem like that is on his mind. You mentioned that he decided to get sober after his wife left. Maybe he just needs another dose of that for him to want to quit. Just a thought....
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:58 PM
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He's going to start the New Year alone if he doesn't do anything about it. He can't hide it from me. I know as soon as he gets a buzz. All he has to do is open his mouth.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BoxinRotz View Post
He's going to start the New Year alone if he doesn't do anything about it. He can't hide it from me. I know as soon as he gets a buzz. All he has to do is open his mouth.
I did last year. I was locked up in the psych hospital, out of my mind. Was depressing enough to make me desperate enough to want to initially try some new solutions and suggestions about the problem again.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:00 PM
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You sound like a patient and gentle soul, BoxinRotz. You appear to have taken his crap for a long time. I will give you some painful advice: Get the &*^% out of there. You can't do a thing for him until he wants to change, and nothing you do will change that. You leaving might give him a swift kick in the pants but don't count on it, and don't do it as a threat.

You have a chance to save yourself now, and you better take it. He's drowning, and if you let him he'll take you with him. If you have any chance of helping him it will be from the shore. You can't do anything when you're both in the water.

Best wishes to you, and I hope it turns out well for you.
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