Magichappens

I see so much bashing of different recovery programs. Do we really have to prove one is wrong to say one is right? I personally know what works for me, and am willing to share it with anyone who wants to know, but I don't think someone is wrong for believing in something different. I know what I believe, but I have been wrong in my beliefs before, and I might be totally barking up the wrong tree now. But for now, it's working.
There is scandal and intrigue in every organization that has ever existed, because people were involved. Flawed human beings, with personalities and characteristics. Does this make the organization bad? Not neccessarily. So what's the point of bashing it? People are searching for what works for them. We aren't cut from the same cookie cutter. What works for me may not work for you. If we believe different things, why does one of us have to be wrong? I may be mistaken in some areas, but that's just part of the journey called life. Is it that it makes someone feel good to make everybody wrong? Are they then superior? I am just curious. What difference does it make? Secular, non secular? Good for both if someone finds the help they need. I just don't get the big deal. Magic

Justme57

I'm with you on this one Magic . Whatever works for us individually is " right" , for us !
Personally , I think we should be rejoicing with and for our fellow SR friends , in their sobriety/abstinence, and be encouraging to EVERYONE, for the common goal.

While we can only share our OWN ESH, in whichever " programme" we have chosen, to my mind , any tool which helps another has merit !

Well said

HUGX

Lee

Chy

I guess I'm not sure what your are referring to. I know that we get some pretty heated debates and discussions going on occasion but I don't see to much bashing. I usually visit all the forums and unless I'm missing something specific I rememer like you, we're all human and absolutly entitled to varying opinions.

What's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander.

Dan

Exactly. I have a slight problem though, when what works for me is presented in a false light, and dare I say, perhaps even with a hidden agenda. Whatever works for the individual is a valid statement, and I believe in it with all my heart. Secular, non secular, it doesn't matter. I agree with you Magic. But trying to create a myth about what works for you simply to promote what works for me would be wrong wouldn't it? I have yet to bash anyone's recovery system and will never be compelled to do so. Yet I will not be silent about falsehoods spoken about what works for me. There are simply things that are true and things that are false.

DD

Magichappens

I don't just mean here. Sure there are differing opinions. There are different people. I just wonder if any one has any insight on the bashing. I ran across some people who bash the 12 step recovery, and I have run across those who say that if you don't get God, you don't get recovery. I don't understand the motivation for people. Maybe bashing isn't the right word. I checked out some of the "not religious" programs suggested by some of the people here who believe in them, and I found what I describe as "bashing". I also see that people are snubbed for believing in a higher power "as they understand him". Am I not seeing this correctly? Like I said, it just made me curious.

Pancreas

Magic,

Thank you for the wise words.

I tried numerous times to quit drinking, but it was not in me. After this last coma I decided to quit drinking and decided that I needed help above my counselor and family. The help for me is an AA group I found after going to many different AA meetings. As I was told and read, AA is but a loose term to cover the many different groups and their differing dynamics, fit yourself to the dynamics. They did not help me quit drinking, but thay are helping me stay sober, for me that is enough.

At these meetings I have seen the extremes of opinion from downright "go to hell if you don't believe" to "use the steps that work for you".

Personally I believe in God and that he is the creator, no matter if you are christian, hindu, muslim etc... I am not a religious person and don't carry high views on organized religion, but some people find peace in these institutions and more power to them. The one thing I am is a spiritual person with very succinct ideas on how my beliefs are tempered and acted upon. The bible was written by men and I believe contains a multitude of ideas and lessons that are beneficial to my life. It also contains many paradoxes and mixed messages that are spuriously used by people to explain their existance or choices in life.

I know what I believe, I know what works for me, and in my life the golden rule is probably #1.

Gooch

Its not what goes into our mouths that defiles us, rather what comes out.

I guess if my recovery program works for me and the God of my understanding lets me sleep comfortably in my own skin, than I don't feel the sting of being bashed. I used to rely on things outside myself, ( people, places, and things.. money, property, and prestige) to change the way I felt.

I have an insight here that may bear some light on things. Over the years, there have been many influential people in my life. My models of recovery and spiritual growth speak from their hearts of their recovery, sharing the benificial results in their life. There are also examples of the manipulative, miserable, discontent suffered by some that choose to focus their efforts on changing things outside themselves.

I get my daily bread by the loaf. If a slice is moldy .. I share it with the birds.

Dan

aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est Gooch.

DD

Magichappens

Thanks Gooch,
That says a lot.

Chy

Nice Goochy!

dotcom

Magic,

i found that on here is where i see most of the bashing. dont get me wrong, ive been to meetings where theres been bashing and theyve said some dumb s*** like i cant be a christian if i call myself an addict. but i just walk away from that. out in the real world, i let people know i wont put up with that crap by just leaving. no mean words said, just... poof be gone. and problem solved. find another group of friends in recovery and when they get into the quotes and other philosophy crap i just make it well known that im not there to discuss that (haha, its more like a trigger). and then i find people who are likeminded. here its a forum... people say what they say and its not like "out there". can just get up and leave out there and if i want, never have to see those people again.
see what im saying?

hugs,

dot

Gooch

:LMAO .. yes it is Dan! good call!

Alice Wonder

magic- I think this is a good thread. I just had dinner tonite with someone who told me they always believed that AA was a weird christian cult! ughhhhh they are not a substance abuser either so it wasn't fear of attending a meeting that motivated the statement. sigh.

Rotten

Vah! Denuone latine loquebar? Me ineptum. Interdum modo elabitur.

Magichappens

There are websites which support your friend's idea Alice. When I ran across them, I was glad I already had my own experience. They would have scared the s#!+ out of me. See www.factnet.org/discus/ title- AA is a destructive cult.
I am not against exchanging ideas. That is a wonderful thing. I just don't see the benefit in putting someone else's down. Telling someone that their life is depressing to others because of their beliefs is not constructive in my opinion. Telling someone they will be less successful because of their beliefs is not constructive. Some here seem to think this is an exchange of ideas, but I know manipulation when I see it. Shaming someone or making them feel less for the way they believe is manipulative. Explaining your truth and allowing others to explain theirs is an exchange. At least that's how I see it. As always, I am not an expert. I am just an observer. Magic

Dan

Thanks for the link Magic. A good reminder of intolerance at every turn.
Shame on intolerance and those afflicted with the compulsion to propagate it.
Let us, all who choose, travel a higher path.
DD

Alice Wonder

we all have something to learn. thanks magic

NotThatThirsty

Thanks for the link (I think), Magic!
It's just a fact that some people are going feel like "bashing" other people/organizations/institutions, etc. is somehow beneficial to themselves and others. It's sad really. If I don't like someone or something, that's my business... if you ask my opinion I'll give it but it's simply a Waste of My Time and Effort to "dig up dirt", find flaws, manipulate statistics, etc. just to prove to someone that I'm "right" in my beliefs, and that they should join me in my belief. Sounds like a cult to me. Wow, I mean WOW! If that's the kind of thing they enjoy then okay, but for me there's simply too much I can be doing that's Positive! If I'm just seeking Problems, I'll find them, but today, I'm seeking Solutions. It reminds me of a South Park episode (oh, no!) where Stan decides he's going to become a "non-conformist" so he goes to the non-conformist kids at school and asks what he needs to do. They answer "you gotta dress like us and listen to the same music". LOL!

-Josh

Dan

:LMAO
Thanks for that Josh!

DD

THEDETACHER

I think i know why some people "Bash" AA...

Have a read of this link (with an open mind of course).

http://www.morerevealed.com/mr/chap14.htm

I feel just a little uncomfortable around anyone who says something like: "Let us, all who choose, travel a higher path." everyone spell S-A-N-C-T-I-M-O-N-I-O-U-S !!

Please take the time to read this...