onlythetruth

As most of you know, I was in AA for nearly a decade, left, and since that time have become an advocate for choice in recovery.

I have nothing against AA per se and in fact found aspects of it, particularly the social support, helpful, and I would have liked nothing more than to have moved on and been wished well by the friends I'd made during my time in AA.

This is not what happened. I was very honest at the time of my initial departure and I believe honorable, including telling my sponsor and sponsees that I had decided through a great deal of exploration and reflection that AA was not a good fit for me and was moving on.

The initial reaction was simply amazing to me, if not entirely surprising. My sponsor was certain I would relapse. One sponsee cried as if I'd told her I had cancer. When I ran into AAs in the community, their reaction was to try to convince me of my imminent demise, or act as though I was radioactive.

BUT...since I left--it has been 5 years now--I have "won over" many of these people and believe I have taught some that it is truly an error to believe that recovery is one-size-fits all. My sponsor has called me on several occasions to help connect someone to SMART Recovery when she sees AA is not a fit. Many of those who initially treated me as if I was a leper now speak to me (!) in the grocery store and even ask to learn more about SMART and other pathways to recovery.

There are still those who are incredibly antagonistic, though. I recently attended a birthday celebration for a friend I met in AA; everyone there, except me, was an AA member. About 1/3 of the people there were very friendly and obviously glad to see me. About 1/3 did not know me. The remaining people glared at me as if I was satan incarnate--and these were people I'd considered friends during my time in AA.

It is rather hurtful to be shunned like that simply because I've chosen not to follow a particular recovery path and want people to know about all the legitimate choices they have. But I try not to focus on the hurt and instead focus on the progress that has been made in those 5 years.

It IS changing and will continue to change. I am sure of it.

MIRecovery

Everybody travels the road to sobriety differently. I know I would distance myself from people who no longer believe AA is of benefit because I have heard the same story hundreds of times. People leave the program and drink. Sometimes a day, a month, or 5 yrs but also sometimes never.

I distance myself because I do not want to get hurt when a good friend dies or really screws up their life. I have seen way to much death and pain since getting sober. It only took one friend's suicide for my defenses to go up. For me AA works and I prefer to be close to people who have a high probability of not dying of Alcoholism.

Fandy

Onlythetruth, i appreciate hearing your story, I never had before, your longterm sobriety is wonderful, i hope i can say the same one day.

I believe that most people are generally good. Drunk or sober, I would never prophetise anyone's path or wish them ill if they had a difference of opinion on the recovery method. No one deserves to be ostracized for leaving and choosing to concentrate on their own life. I hope that the OP is happy and healthy for a many more years, however they do it.

TSDD

After being a member of AA for many years I have found that for the most part 999 out of 1000 people who get sober by going to meetings, then stop going to meetings wind up drunk.

Please don't take this as a threat to your sobriety or anything, just an observation and explanation. Watch 100 people you get emotionally invested with stop going to meetings then drink again, you start to put together a pattern and just start backing off then they quit attending meetings.

Personally I'd do the same, it's self preservation more than anything cultlike or personal.


Amen to that!

TheJungianThing

AA doesn't have a high horse. General Services offers a book with instructions in it that seems to work for folks trying to get and stay sober. I've followed the instructions and it works.

I've purchased two things from GSO, neither of those things are a high horse. I also didn't get a crystal ball either, so if people leave AA, I have no clue what will happen to them. If I don't hang out with them anymore it's because I'm busy with the life I've been given as a direct result of following the instructions in the book and attending meetings with other alcoholics that do the same. Since getting sober, I've finished school, gotten better jobs, my wife stayed with me and we have three kids, one of my kids is in Tae Kwon Do and soon so will the other two - I might even pick it up, my parents and brothers actually like having me around. I've made friends in AA, I see them at meetings. I go to meetings and continue in this way of life for the same reasons Dr. Bob suggested.

"1. Sense of duty.
2. It is a pleasure.
3. Because in so doing I am paying my debt to the man who took time to pass it on to me.
4. Because every time I do it I take out a little more insurance for myself against a possible slip."

AVRT works, SMART works, and for some even embracing a religion has worked.

The bottom line is, there's hope for alcoholics. Pick something, stick with it, DO IT. The program of AA involves more than just meetings. Just like any other program there are "things to do" and some of them are very similar. One thing's for sure that they all have in common is the one thing not to do. Don't drink.

Scientists have proven that it is physically impossible for one to get drunk from alcohol if one does not put alcohol in their system.

I have to imagine there are folks here that feel the same way about the program they use to get and stay sober as I do about the AA Program. The most beautiful aspect of the board and the common thread among sober alcoholics is this. A desire to help others get and stay sober if those others want to get and stay sober. I see AVRT folks helping each other out, I've pointed to a few folks I know to AVRT and this board because of that.

Please don't construe this as attacking the "person", I am not. I am, however, severely attacking the argument. There's a false claim in the thread title. Out of several possible titles, the one "The AA High Horse" was chosen, I don't know why, I don't care why but so far I've seen two pages of beating a dead horse and no supporting evidence of an "AA High Horse", because one doesn't exist.

If you feel as if your windmill is being attacked by a quixotic member of alcoholics anonymous, just try and politely remind them that the GSO doesn't sell high horses OR crystal balls and do your thing.

My sincerest hope is for a long, sober, healthy and fullfilling life.

I've found that via AA's program and I wouldn't be able to practice it without my friends in the fellowship.

Stay Sober My Friends.

Db1105

I've also been around for awhile and believe your 999/1000 rate of people who stop going to meetings drink again is waaaaaaayy off base, in fact, it's just more ammunition for the OP's discussion. I know quite a few people, many who I still socialize with, that have stopped going to meetings and still lead happy, productive lives.

The biggest reason why many stop going to meetings is because of people getting back into the mainstream of life and have less and less free time, and more demands on living. It's not my job to judge those who get sober and stop being active in recovery. Claiming almost all of them drink again only damages AA. AA has given them the ability to choose how they want to live their lives. It's between them and their Higher Power, not me, nor AA.

Well into my third decade in AA, I continue to attend meetings by choice. I don't do church, so AA is my spiritual enrichment. I also go because I should give what was given to me. I know that AA isn't for everyone, nor works for everyone. Any method that gets an alcoholic to stop drinking is the right method. It is nothing to fear.

onlythetruth

I understand that you are speaking from your personal experience, but your personal experience is limited.

The truth is, that you simply do not know what happens to the people who leave AA; you only know what happens to the ones who conclude that leaving AA was a mistake, and return.

Some people who leave AA do relapse, of course. But some achieve recovery in other ways, either naturally or through other programs or approaches. And others, having achieved recovery through AA, simply do not need meetings after a certain point, don't return, and continue to do well.

I frankly think you are doing a disservice to this latter group when you claim you know what became of them. It is unfair to make such statements, which are untrue and which tend to reinforce the erroneous notion that AA is the only thing that works.

TSDD

I'm merely stating my personal experience and observation. You can disagree that I saw my neighbor drive past this morning, but it's still what I saw with my own two eyes.

You and your friends are much more fortunate than I've been. I am truely envious. Personally I don't like the long shot bets anyway particularly when stakes are so high. Even if only 1 ot of 5 went back to drinking I'd be nervous about continuing my relationships with them.

I'm the last person to begrudge anyone staying sober by whatever method they see fit. I have no doubt that there's plenty of men and women who stay sober without going to AA. I was just offering an explanation why I and some AA members will shy away from people who stop attending meetings.

David 1

Great thread! The inherent danger in not working on recovery is the threat of relapse. To the original poster, it's fine to find what works for you but understand the difference in being diligent with your recovery and finding excuses not to continue working on it.

I went to AA for about 6 years but stopped for no real reason. No one knew me, really so there were no social repercussions. I have been sober for 9 years and reading threads like this makes me want to get back to a meeting. I am not only helping myself but if I can help someone else it would truly be worth it.

It seems like the above two paragraphs are contradictory and maybe they are but once again it demonstrates a different path.

Dave

Fandy

it kind of makes for a sense of exclusiveness...only associating with active members of AA.

I have many friends from different backgrounds, my family, most of them will drink alcohol (not to the extent that i did, but they are normal folk). I would miss them and their company if I shut myself in a little box...Drinking is simply not an option for me, end of story....(thanks Amy for teaching me that)

I think OP title of the thread is fine, and it's not for anyone who is reading it to be judgemental or belittle them. That is a common theme I read from some enthusiastic AA members here.

TSDD

I generally live in small towns, hear gossip, read the paper, see people around town. It's really not difficult to see what happens to most of the graduates. Add up the people who do fit the category you describe and I'm still pretty comfortable with my observations.

To clarify, I supsect the people who have another way to stay sober without AA generally either never wind up there to begin with or check it out only briefly (in which case I'd never really get to notice them). God knows if I figured out a different method you'd never see my face at another meeting.

Really why do you even care? Stay sober however you like, hell, stay sober just to prove me wrong.... you and everyone else around you will benefit. I wasn't trying to discourage or run down the OP in any way whatsoever, merely offering a likely explanation to his observation.

onlythetruth

I care because of my experiences during those 9+ years I spent in AA, which were preceded by treatment in a 12 step based rehab.

During those experiences, I was told that there was no other way to get sober than AA. Rational Recovery was around at the time, and there was a meeting in my area; I was told by my rehab counselor to avoid this and my sponsor snarked at the very idea. I wanted very badly to get sober, and I tend to be a good student, a good girl who follows the rules: so I spent much time in AA, not fitting, not getting it, feeling as though something was wrong with me. Even though I never relapsed!!!!!

When I questioned the program, I was told that questioning was tantamount to denial and that I would relapse.

When I considered backing off my attendance after many years of abstinence I was told that I was "signing my own death warrant", that--as you've claimed--people who stop going to meetings inevitably relapse.

It took more courage for me to leave AA under those circumstances than it did to quit drinking.

I do not want anyone else to have to go through what I did, that is why I care. But I know that most people who find their way to a non-12-step recovery path have indeed gone through it, at least people in the US, because 12 step is so pervasive in our culture.

I think that should change. I think it IS changing....but not because people like me have been silent...the change is precisely because we haven't been silent.

And to the OP: You're right not to lose any sleep over this. Do what works for you, and don't bother worrying about the folks that cut you in public.

Fernaceman

There is no wrong way to get or stay sober, as long as you are sober.

miamifella

Early on in recovery, I was warned that it was not a good idea to make friends with people in 12-step programs. That is not what you are there for.

Stick with the healthy, whole, sane friends in your life. Probably most of them never needed recovery because they were never addicts or alcoholics. Maybe some friends have been in recovery, but everyone needs balance in his or her life.

TheJungianThing

That was my point. Thread title could have been "Enthusiastic AA Members On A High Horse". More precise. The implication is that the program suggests anything of the sort. The vast majority of anecdotes provided in this thread deal with members of the fwllowship and not the program of action outlined in the text.

The instructions in the text, specifically with working with others is to not push the issue. Lay out information, experience, and then leave it to the alcoholic to decide.

otter

I've always hated the AA cult feel and vibe. I'd love a couple friends to sit down with and talk to but that's too creepy. If you're really trying to help people just chill out and give them a hug. AA does creep ya out.

Dee74

well...I guess it's not really clairvoyance when I close the thread...

There's a great sticky at the top of this forum.
I recommend people read it.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...rit-unity.html

I think the principles there apply to differences within the same school of methods too.

I think we've beat this particular horse enough.

There's been more than adequate discussion of a variety of veiwpoints, but it's time to move on.


thread closed.

D