Reprehensible AA sponsor?
Iceberg Ahead!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Out at Sea
Posts: 1,177
Reprehensible AA sponsor?
Al-Anon member goes to Al-Anon group meetings for months. A double winner (AA member) attends the same Al-Anon group all through those months, week in and week out. Stories shared.
The double winner decides to become the AA sponsor of the Al-Anon member's cheating alcoholic/addict spouse months after the spouse exits rehab. The AA sponsor cuts back attendance at the Al-Anon meetings to once a month roughly. Then, the AA sponsor accompanies the cheating spouse to divorce court for the first scheduling pretrial where both spouses must be present. Doesn't even say hello to the Al-Anon member. Another AA member could have been asked to go, but wasn't.
Wrong? Shameful? Go to AA member's home group, call the sponsor out and ask for action to be taken? One-to-one call out? Ask the sponsor to leave the Al-Anon group? Other thoughts, suggestions or ideas?
The double winner decides to become the AA sponsor of the Al-Anon member's cheating alcoholic/addict spouse months after the spouse exits rehab. The AA sponsor cuts back attendance at the Al-Anon meetings to once a month roughly. Then, the AA sponsor accompanies the cheating spouse to divorce court for the first scheduling pretrial where both spouses must be present. Doesn't even say hello to the Al-Anon member. Another AA member could have been asked to go, but wasn't.
Wrong? Shameful? Go to AA member's home group, call the sponsor out and ask for action to be taken? One-to-one call out? Ask the sponsor to leave the Al-Anon group? Other thoughts, suggestions or ideas?
Iceberg Ahead!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Out at Sea
Posts: 1,177
What if one of your AA home group members started outing your alcoholism/addiction and your stories to others outside the group? Let go and let God, and continue to let it happen?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 625
Originally Posted by Titanic 
What if one of your AA home group members started outing your alcoholism/addiction and your stories to others outside the group? Let go and let God, and continue to let it happen?
As for my stories... An AA or NA meeting is not the place to share a story I wouldn't want broadcast outside of the group. I have a sponsor for that.
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
I also have a bit of trouble also with the notion that some ‘public’ action is called for. ‘Calling someone out’ in front of a group sounds a bit vengeful and coercive. I have found that when I have similar concerns about another’s behavior that those concerns are best expressed privately, one on one, and in a most carefully considered way.
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
Well, someone outed someone before the hearing ever came to pass...otherwise how would the sponsor have knows they were sponsoring the al anon person's cheatin'spouse? And saying hello to al anon member in court would have been outing al anon member.
Bad situation all the way round.
Unfortunately (I just went through my own divorce) these sorts of painful situations are common. Family members and common friends...even when they are not trying to take sides, appear to be taking sides just by staying in contact with one or the other.
I recall feeling kicked in the gut when I found out a friend of ours had invited my ex to a party at her house. I was 2000 miles away at the time.
I'm sure my spouse was mad as heck when I used the lawyer a close family friend works for as my divorce lawyer and my friend was the legal assistant on the case. He must have felt betrayed, but it was the only lawyer I could afford as he gave me a discount.
As much as it stings, as unfair as it seems, it may well NOT have been personal at all.
this is one of those situations where one has to push past hurt and think deeply...if the sponsor gets "called out" what are they really being "called out" for?
Was any confidence truly betrayed? Or is this a case of understandably hurt feelings, or poor judegment as opposed to reprehensible behavior?
Bad situation all the way round.
Unfortunately (I just went through my own divorce) these sorts of painful situations are common. Family members and common friends...even when they are not trying to take sides, appear to be taking sides just by staying in contact with one or the other.
I recall feeling kicked in the gut when I found out a friend of ours had invited my ex to a party at her house. I was 2000 miles away at the time.
I'm sure my spouse was mad as heck when I used the lawyer a close family friend works for as my divorce lawyer and my friend was the legal assistant on the case. He must have felt betrayed, but it was the only lawyer I could afford as he gave me a discount.
As much as it stings, as unfair as it seems, it may well NOT have been personal at all.
this is one of those situations where one has to push past hurt and think deeply...if the sponsor gets "called out" what are they really being "called out" for?
Was any confidence truly betrayed? Or is this a case of understandably hurt feelings, or poor judegment as opposed to reprehensible behavior?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,591
I'm not in the support group life, but it sounds like this is another case of AA (and related groups) as a gossip mill.
If I were an Al-Anon member and wanted to hang on to it, then I would make sure that I didn't allow anything to destroy my ability to go to the meetings and get out of it what I do. I would have to figure out what to do in order for my anger to pass or whatever. Maybe the answer is time, or maybe it is going to a different one, or still searching for the next best thing. I can picture myself revelling in an opportunity to tell someone off, sure, especially when I thought I was on the side of "right"; or just dropping them entirely.
Whatever the right answer may be, it can't be to allow people who are the source of annoyance to destroy a good thing we have going.
If I were an Al-Anon member and wanted to hang on to it, then I would make sure that I didn't allow anything to destroy my ability to go to the meetings and get out of it what I do. I would have to figure out what to do in order for my anger to pass or whatever. Maybe the answer is time, or maybe it is going to a different one, or still searching for the next best thing. I can picture myself revelling in an opportunity to tell someone off, sure, especially when I thought I was on the side of "right"; or just dropping them entirely.
Whatever the right answer may be, it can't be to allow people who are the source of annoyance to destroy a good thing we have going.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Originally Posted by Titanic
What if one of your AA home group members started outing your alcoholism/addiction and your stories to others outside the group? Let go and let God, and continue to let it happen?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Pine Grove, PA
Posts: 146
Only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. That does not mean that we automatically become saints. The world is full of assh****. I am sure a lot of them show up in 12 step programs, AA members are not immune to Ass****ism.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Trenches, Texas
Posts: 778
A share from my pal Tim M. in regards to the exertion of self will in AA/Al-Anon a la the third step. It's my story as well.
"Either my troubles are of my own making or they are not. Either I believe what the Book says in this regard, or I don't. Any emotional disturbance will point the finger directly back at me.
"The first requirement is that we be convinced that AA run on self-will can hardly be a success. On that basis we are almost always in collision with something or somebody, even though our motives—saving the lives of suffering alcoholics—are good. Most people try to carry the AA message by self-propulsion. Each Twelfth-Stepper is like a humble servant who tries to run the whole of the Fellowship; is forever trying to arrange the meeting, group business, the service structure, and the lives of his sponsees in his own way. If only his arrangements would stay put, if only people would work the Steps as he wished, if only people would follow the Big Book not the 'Twelve and Twelve', if only people would carry the message, not the mess, if only people would ditch the therapy-speak, if only people would stop talking about other addictions, AA would be great. Everybody, including himself, would be happy, joyous, and free. AA would be wonderful. In trying to make these arrangements our humble servant may sometimes be quite virtuous. He may be kind, considerate, patient, generous; even modest and self-sacrificing. On the other hand, he may be mean, egotistical, selfish, and dishonest. But as with most humans, he is likely to have varied traits.
What usually happens? The show doesn't come off very well—his sponsees become disaffected, he gets a reputation in local AA meetings for being a fascist, and local AA is polarised into two self-righteous camps, each convinced the other is wrong. He begins to think AA doesn't treat him right. He decides to exert himself more. He becomes, on the next occasion, still more demanding or gracious, as the case may be. Still AA does not suit him. Admitting he may be somewhat at fault, he is sure that other people are more to blame. He becomes angry, indignant, self-pitying. What is his basic trouble? Is he not really a self-seeker even when trying to be kind? Is he not a victim of the delusion that he can wrest satisfaction and happiness out of AA if he only manages well? Is it not evident to all the rest of the alcoholics that these are the things he wants? And do not his actions make each of them wish to retaliate, snatching all they can get out of AA? Is he not, even in his best moments, a producer of confusion rather than harmony?
Our humble servant is self-centred—egocentric, as people like to call it nowadays. He is like the retired Twelfth-Stepper who lolls in the Sunshine of the Spirit complaining of the sad state of the Fellowship; the bleeding deacon who sighs over the sins of 'Middle of the Road AA'; politicians and reformers who are sure AA would be Utopia if everyone else would only behave; the deposed group chairman who thinks the group has wronged him; and the Twelfth-Stepper who has lost all credibility and is locked up in the prison of his own judgements. Whatever our protestations, are not most of us concerned with ourselves, our resentments, or our self-pity?
. . . So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making.
. . . We had to quit playing God. It didn't work."
On a sidebar. My sponsor would ask me what I am hiding from him, AA, and God by attending Al-Anon. I don't need a CA sponsor, AA sponsor, NA sponsor, Al-Anon sponsor, etc...I'll take anything to the gates of insanity or death, even 12 step programs to avoid the 12 steps.
"Either my troubles are of my own making or they are not. Either I believe what the Book says in this regard, or I don't. Any emotional disturbance will point the finger directly back at me.
"The first requirement is that we be convinced that AA run on self-will can hardly be a success. On that basis we are almost always in collision with something or somebody, even though our motives—saving the lives of suffering alcoholics—are good. Most people try to carry the AA message by self-propulsion. Each Twelfth-Stepper is like a humble servant who tries to run the whole of the Fellowship; is forever trying to arrange the meeting, group business, the service structure, and the lives of his sponsees in his own way. If only his arrangements would stay put, if only people would work the Steps as he wished, if only people would follow the Big Book not the 'Twelve and Twelve', if only people would carry the message, not the mess, if only people would ditch the therapy-speak, if only people would stop talking about other addictions, AA would be great. Everybody, including himself, would be happy, joyous, and free. AA would be wonderful. In trying to make these arrangements our humble servant may sometimes be quite virtuous. He may be kind, considerate, patient, generous; even modest and self-sacrificing. On the other hand, he may be mean, egotistical, selfish, and dishonest. But as with most humans, he is likely to have varied traits.
What usually happens? The show doesn't come off very well—his sponsees become disaffected, he gets a reputation in local AA meetings for being a fascist, and local AA is polarised into two self-righteous camps, each convinced the other is wrong. He begins to think AA doesn't treat him right. He decides to exert himself more. He becomes, on the next occasion, still more demanding or gracious, as the case may be. Still AA does not suit him. Admitting he may be somewhat at fault, he is sure that other people are more to blame. He becomes angry, indignant, self-pitying. What is his basic trouble? Is he not really a self-seeker even when trying to be kind? Is he not a victim of the delusion that he can wrest satisfaction and happiness out of AA if he only manages well? Is it not evident to all the rest of the alcoholics that these are the things he wants? And do not his actions make each of them wish to retaliate, snatching all they can get out of AA? Is he not, even in his best moments, a producer of confusion rather than harmony?
Our humble servant is self-centred—egocentric, as people like to call it nowadays. He is like the retired Twelfth-Stepper who lolls in the Sunshine of the Spirit complaining of the sad state of the Fellowship; the bleeding deacon who sighs over the sins of 'Middle of the Road AA'; politicians and reformers who are sure AA would be Utopia if everyone else would only behave; the deposed group chairman who thinks the group has wronged him; and the Twelfth-Stepper who has lost all credibility and is locked up in the prison of his own judgements. Whatever our protestations, are not most of us concerned with ourselves, our resentments, or our self-pity?
. . . So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making.
. . . We had to quit playing God. It didn't work."
On a sidebar. My sponsor would ask me what I am hiding from him, AA, and God by attending Al-Anon. I don't need a CA sponsor, AA sponsor, NA sponsor, Al-Anon sponsor, etc...I'll take anything to the gates of insanity or death, even 12 step programs to avoid the 12 steps.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
There is also that 7th step thing... from the Big Book of AA :
I get it... Attending AA is certainly better than seeing our name in the police blotter, or obituary. And I see people frequently that I'd just assume not... and yea, I give that to God whether I worry about it or not, and I sleep fine... OTOH, some respect from our fellow members of AA... in regards to what the OP was getting at.. is not an unreasonable expectation.
To be humble is not to grovel before men. It is not to become a doormat for society.
Colts!
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by Titanic
What if one of your AA home group members started outing your alcoholism/addiction and your stories to others outside the group? Let go and let God, and continue to let it happen?
PS: this is my personal feelings, i respect others' opinions may differ and do not out other AA members
Colts!
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by Mark75
There is also that 7th step thing... from the Big Book of AA :
I get it... Attending AA is certainly better than seeing our name in the police blotter, or obituary. And I see people frequently that I'd just assume not... and yea, I give that to God whether I worry about it or not, and I sleep fine... OTOH, some respect from our fellow members of AA... in regards to what the OP was getting at.. is not an unreasonable expectation.
I get it... Attending AA is certainly better than seeing our name in the police blotter, or obituary. And I see people frequently that I'd just assume not... and yea, I give that to God whether I worry about it or not, and I sleep fine... OTOH, some respect from our fellow members of AA... in regards to what the OP was getting at.. is not an unreasonable expectation.
You wouldn't try and convince an alky they were an alky, so why try to convince a disrespectful twit that they are a disrespectful twit?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 127
Do you own some sort of rights to this double-winner's life? They could well be saving each others lives.
If I were the AA sponsor however, I doubt I would go to court - I ain't a marriage counselor. But IF there was a reason I felt God (or the law) really wanted me there, I certainly would have nodded an appropriate greeting to you.
Whether these two people are up to something good or not, stop letting them rob your peace of mind. Not worth it! I leave justice to the universe and if there needs to be some it will happen and not at my hands. God is running the show. Get out of the way and pray for them both as outlined on pg 552 of AA's Big Book.
I know you're hurt! I been there honey!! It was all Just my prideful anger and wanting others to suffer when they already got their own problems trust me! And I wanted people to side with me so I could feel validated in my resentments which is exactly what i felt THEY were doin to ME! did i want to rise above it or not?! Half my neighborhood and many more people "sided" with a guy who REALLY slandered me ALL over the place! people were literally unified in camaraderie over hating me! it sucked! I was afraid of what people thought of me. Even my doctor heard about it and mentioned it!
It wasn't until I learned why I kept getting involved with the same guys, why I reacted so sensitively, then learned to get over myself that I got my peace back, plus 1,000 times more! It was a painful awesome opportunity to grow.
Best to you! Do whatever work in the 12 steps you know is available to you!!
QUOTE=Titanic;3683556]Al-Anon member goes to Al-Anon group meetings for months. A double winner (AA member) attends the same Al-Anon group all through those months, week in and week out. Stories shared.
The double winner decides to become the AA sponsor of the Al-Anon member's cheating alcoholic/addict spouse months after the spouse exits rehab. The AA sponsor cuts back attendance at the Al-Anon meetings to once a month roughly. Then, the AA sponsor accompanies the cheating spouse to divorce court for the first scheduling pretrial where both spouses must be present. Doesn't even say hello to the Al-Anon member. Another AA member could have been asked to go, but wasn't.
Wrong? Shameful? Go to AA member's home group, call the sponsor out and ask for action to be taken? One-to-one call out? Ask the sponsor to leave the Al-Anon group? Other thoughts, suggestions or ideas?[/QUOTE]
If I were the AA sponsor however, I doubt I would go to court - I ain't a marriage counselor. But IF there was a reason I felt God (or the law) really wanted me there, I certainly would have nodded an appropriate greeting to you.
Whether these two people are up to something good or not, stop letting them rob your peace of mind. Not worth it! I leave justice to the universe and if there needs to be some it will happen and not at my hands. God is running the show. Get out of the way and pray for them both as outlined on pg 552 of AA's Big Book.
I know you're hurt! I been there honey!! It was all Just my prideful anger and wanting others to suffer when they already got their own problems trust me! And I wanted people to side with me so I could feel validated in my resentments which is exactly what i felt THEY were doin to ME! did i want to rise above it or not?! Half my neighborhood and many more people "sided" with a guy who REALLY slandered me ALL over the place! people were literally unified in camaraderie over hating me! it sucked! I was afraid of what people thought of me. Even my doctor heard about it and mentioned it!
It wasn't until I learned why I kept getting involved with the same guys, why I reacted so sensitively, then learned to get over myself that I got my peace back, plus 1,000 times more! It was a painful awesome opportunity to grow.
Best to you! Do whatever work in the 12 steps you know is available to you!!
QUOTE=Titanic;3683556]Al-Anon member goes to Al-Anon group meetings for months. A double winner (AA member) attends the same Al-Anon group all through those months, week in and week out. Stories shared.
The double winner decides to become the AA sponsor of the Al-Anon member's cheating alcoholic/addict spouse months after the spouse exits rehab. The AA sponsor cuts back attendance at the Al-Anon meetings to once a month roughly. Then, the AA sponsor accompanies the cheating spouse to divorce court for the first scheduling pretrial where both spouses must be present. Doesn't even say hello to the Al-Anon member. Another AA member could have been asked to go, but wasn't.
Wrong? Shameful? Go to AA member's home group, call the sponsor out and ask for action to be taken? One-to-one call out? Ask the sponsor to leave the Al-Anon group? Other thoughts, suggestions or ideas?[/QUOTE]
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: De
Posts: 1,333
Originally Posted by Titanic
Al-Anon member goes to Al-Anon group meetings for months. A double winner (AA member) attends the same Al-Anon group all through those months, week in and week out. Stories shared.
The double winner decides to become the AA sponsor of the Al-Anon member's cheating alcoholic/addict spouse months after the spouse exits rehab. The AA sponsor cuts back attendance at the Al-Anon meetings to once a month roughly. Then, the AA sponsor accompanies the cheating spouse to divorce court for the first scheduling pretrial where both spouses must be present. Doesn't even say hello to the Al-Anon member. Another AA member could have been asked to go, but wasn't.
Wrong? Shameful? Go to AA member's home group, call the sponsor out and ask for action to be taken? One-to-one call out? Ask the sponsor to leave the Al-Anon group? Other thoughts, suggestions or ideas?
The double winner decides to become the AA sponsor of the Al-Anon member's cheating alcoholic/addict spouse months after the spouse exits rehab. The AA sponsor cuts back attendance at the Al-Anon meetings to once a month roughly. Then, the AA sponsor accompanies the cheating spouse to divorce court for the first scheduling pretrial where both spouses must be present. Doesn't even say hello to the Al-Anon member. Another AA member could have been asked to go, but wasn't.
Wrong? Shameful? Go to AA member's home group, call the sponsor out and ask for action to be taken? One-to-one call out? Ask the sponsor to leave the Al-Anon group? Other thoughts, suggestions or ideas?
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