Does it start like this/do I need to be concerned?
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
in my mind it's whether you can function day-to-day. To me, if your career is fine your alcohol intake doesn't matter.
Randomdude,
there seem two different conversations going on.
one about the amount, or the number of occasions, or whether there are dire consequences.
none of these are, really, about alcoholism. alcoholism isn't about amounts or consequences, per se. alcoholism is to do with other stuff, really. an inability to stick to the limit you set yourself (i.e. i'll have two drinks, no more) is more of an indicator than what amount you drink.
here's a suggestion: allow yourself three drinks a night, no more. for three months. see how that goes.
in fact, see what your first reaction to that very idea is!
Randomdude,
there seem two different conversations going on.
one about the amount, or the number of occasions, or whether there are dire consequences.
none of these are, really, about alcoholism. alcoholism isn't about amounts or consequences, per se. alcoholism is to do with other stuff, really. an inability to stick to the limit you set yourself (i.e. i'll have two drinks, no more) is more of an indicator than what amount you drink.
here's a suggestion: allow yourself three drinks a night, no more. for three months. see how that goes.
in fact, see what your first reaction to that very idea is!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Hi Random Dude,
Couple things.
Your noticing that you out drink everyone 3 to 1 is a huge red flag. The advice given to moderate for 3 months and not exceed limits set for yourself is spot on. If you struggle with this "self test" it is a serious indicator of possible alcoholism... and remember... this is a progressive disease.
As far as the "social" requirement of drinking I can assure that a guy as smart as you can handle this small detail. I have a story...
From 1990 to 1998 I owned a very large entertainment center... 5 different concepted bars, live entertainment, shows, restaurants and 1500 customers nightly. As a single female bar owner I was bought a lot of drinks and men are offended if you don't take accept them.
Here I am ... a non drinker with 1500 drinkers to juggle and not wanted to offend great customers! My bartenders were all trained to NOT pour the alcohol into my drink. I always drank a colored drink - Stoli, OJ and Cranberry - and I would smile and sip a few drinks on my OJ/Cranberry and then have to be off to another part of the complex. I would set down my virgin drink and keep on moving and shaking.
Not only did I cause my revenues to go up (untold thousands and thousands over the years) I saved the liquor and everybody was happy.
I did get busted by a friend one day that had bought me hundreds of drinks through the years ... fortunately he was a wealthy man and had a great sense of humor.
so ... no excuses... start drinking fruity drinks and put some virgin ones in the mix and rock on and party down in sober kind of way.
See how that works out... and ... more will be revealed.
Couple things.
Your noticing that you out drink everyone 3 to 1 is a huge red flag. The advice given to moderate for 3 months and not exceed limits set for yourself is spot on. If you struggle with this "self test" it is a serious indicator of possible alcoholism... and remember... this is a progressive disease.
As far as the "social" requirement of drinking I can assure that a guy as smart as you can handle this small detail. I have a story...
From 1990 to 1998 I owned a very large entertainment center... 5 different concepted bars, live entertainment, shows, restaurants and 1500 customers nightly. As a single female bar owner I was bought a lot of drinks and men are offended if you don't take accept them.
Here I am ... a non drinker with 1500 drinkers to juggle and not wanted to offend great customers! My bartenders were all trained to NOT pour the alcohol into my drink. I always drank a colored drink - Stoli, OJ and Cranberry - and I would smile and sip a few drinks on my OJ/Cranberry and then have to be off to another part of the complex. I would set down my virgin drink and keep on moving and shaking.
Not only did I cause my revenues to go up (untold thousands and thousands over the years) I saved the liquor and everybody was happy.
I did get busted by a friend one day that had bought me hundreds of drinks through the years ... fortunately he was a wealthy man and had a great sense of humor.
so ... no excuses... start drinking fruity drinks and put some virgin ones in the mix and rock on and party down in sober kind of way.
See how that works out... and ... more will be revealed.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: highland beach, florida
Posts: 649
[QUOTE=RandomDude;3720501]
As far as what do I consider full-blown alcoholism... in my mind it's whether you can function day-to-day. To me, if your career is fine your alcohol intake doesn't matter. Although, I will admit a few times recently I've gone home with girls and been unable to... perform... because I was just so incredibly drunk. Don't like that, although if random anonymous sex is the only loss I'll take it - not like that's good for you either.
Anyway, since I last posted it's pretty much the same situation. I haven't done anything bad due to alcohol, but it's on my mind that I might have that animal inside me, you know? One thing I've noticed is just how much I outdrink EVERYONE by. Like we're just relaxing and I'll take down drinks at like 3:1 ratio of everyone else, without even really thinking about it. I don't need chasers on liquor, I don't need to stop or slow down with any kind of drink. That,I think. is a sign I struggle to just relax and sip.[/QUOTE
Edited and bolded by trix for space
Hi Randomdude,
After reading all of the preceeding posts, I have to say I am amazed that you are still so blaze about your drinking. These people have poured out their heart and soul to you so you might be spared the kind of life some of them have had.
I am not qualified to tell you you ARE an alcoholic, but you have 2 of the major determining factors of being one:
You can OUTDRINK everyone --a high tolerance for Alcohol is a dead giveaway
If I am having 5 I am having 15--well 5 is like one to normal folks if your an alcoholic.
I am a 61 year old female-not smart enough to question like you , I continued to drink until I was 35. I could have been the female equivalent of you (which, believe me does not make me proud as a women).
I was a a very sucessful buyer for a major retailer and entertaining and being entertained was my specialty. The rest of my coworkers were the same drunks as I was, that is why they never noticed. When I told my club friends, and co-workers I was an alcoholic they were SHOCKED!
That was because I was great at my job, never had any problems at work, actually a high achiever---as you said my career was fine so my alcohol intake didn't matter
Save yourself a lot of heartache and get the book "Under the Influence" you will have to rethink many of your beliefs. Just read the book and then talk to us, it will open your eyes, and they need to be.
Either way I sincerely hope you will come to the right conclusion. You sound like you have a promising career and could be very successful, I hope you will be. Maybe you should seek out the guy that had already proved himself , was a big success and then quit drinking. He could be the best person to give you some direction.
Sincerely wishing you the best RD
Trix
As far as what do I consider full-blown alcoholism... in my mind it's whether you can function day-to-day. To me, if your career is fine your alcohol intake doesn't matter. Although, I will admit a few times recently I've gone home with girls and been unable to... perform... because I was just so incredibly drunk. Don't like that, although if random anonymous sex is the only loss I'll take it - not like that's good for you either.
Anyway, since I last posted it's pretty much the same situation. I haven't done anything bad due to alcohol, but it's on my mind that I might have that animal inside me, you know? One thing I've noticed is just how much I outdrink EVERYONE by. Like we're just relaxing and I'll take down drinks at like 3:1 ratio of everyone else, without even really thinking about it. I don't need chasers on liquor, I don't need to stop or slow down with any kind of drink. That,I think. is a sign I struggle to just relax and sip.[/QUOTE
Edited and bolded by trix for space
Hi Randomdude,
After reading all of the preceeding posts, I have to say I am amazed that you are still so blaze about your drinking. These people have poured out their heart and soul to you so you might be spared the kind of life some of them have had.
I am not qualified to tell you you ARE an alcoholic, but you have 2 of the major determining factors of being one:
You can OUTDRINK everyone --a high tolerance for Alcohol is a dead giveaway
If I am having 5 I am having 15--well 5 is like one to normal folks if your an alcoholic.
I am a 61 year old female-not smart enough to question like you , I continued to drink until I was 35. I could have been the female equivalent of you (which, believe me does not make me proud as a women).
I was a a very sucessful buyer for a major retailer and entertaining and being entertained was my specialty. The rest of my coworkers were the same drunks as I was, that is why they never noticed. When I told my club friends, and co-workers I was an alcoholic they were SHOCKED!
That was because I was great at my job, never had any problems at work, actually a high achiever---as you said my career was fine so my alcohol intake didn't matter
Save yourself a lot of heartache and get the book "Under the Influence" you will have to rethink many of your beliefs. Just read the book and then talk to us, it will open your eyes, and they need to be.
Either way I sincerely hope you will come to the right conclusion. You sound like you have a promising career and could be very successful, I hope you will be. Maybe you should seek out the guy that had already proved himself , was a big success and then quit drinking. He could be the best person to give you some direction.
Sincerely wishing you the best RD
Trix
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 15
I'm a few years younger than you (22) and I'm certain I have to address this. I like alcohol too much and I have problems limiting the frequency when I drink alone, and I have a problem limiting the amount when I drink with friends. Controlling the amount I drink has become very hard the last year or so and I have started getting hung over for two days after I drink and I don't get sober until the afternoon the day after.
It's how I think about alcohol that's the most worrying. My mind automatically resents the idea of quitting completely even though I know that's what I have to do. Even though I my life is good right now with the drinking frequency decreased after I moved back home, I alcohol is still the greatest source for joy I have (nothing else compares).
If you didn't have a job that "required" that you drank, will your mind automatically oppose the idea of not drinking for lets say a year? Or will that be completely fine? Also, is drinking something you just do because you feel you have to, or do you do it because it's what you love the most? You asked about percentages of whether you would end up as an alcoholic or not. I don't know enough to answer that, but how has your thinking towards alcohol changed since you started drinking? If it has changed (as I believe) then there's no reason this progression will continue. Last question, does anyone in your family have alcohol problems?
Also, maybe you could try some of those "do I have a drinking problem" tests online. Maybe someone else in here can comment on whether those tests are advisable to take or not, I'm not really sure. I seem to get a decent score on them at least.
It's how I think about alcohol that's the most worrying. My mind automatically resents the idea of quitting completely even though I know that's what I have to do. Even though I my life is good right now with the drinking frequency decreased after I moved back home, I alcohol is still the greatest source for joy I have (nothing else compares).
If you didn't have a job that "required" that you drank, will your mind automatically oppose the idea of not drinking for lets say a year? Or will that be completely fine? Also, is drinking something you just do because you feel you have to, or do you do it because it's what you love the most? You asked about percentages of whether you would end up as an alcoholic or not. I don't know enough to answer that, but how has your thinking towards alcohol changed since you started drinking? If it has changed (as I believe) then there's no reason this progression will continue. Last question, does anyone in your family have alcohol problems?
Also, maybe you could try some of those "do I have a drinking problem" tests online. Maybe someone else in here can comment on whether those tests are advisable to take or not, I'm not really sure. I seem to get a decent score on them at least.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 11
I know that this is not what you want to hear, but your job/lifestyle is a recipe for a major train wreck of a life down the road. I also know how you are feeling about 'not having a full blown problem yet', but trust me, it is lurking in the shadows waiting. I decided to get off the elevator before it went to the bottom floor, no 'rock bottom', and it is hard sometmes because my addiction wasn't full blown, but was headed in that direction. I have experienced anger over having to quit, but honestly, I'm happier without it. I know you are in your 20's and I couldn't have stopped back then, but I wasn't hitting it as hard as you are either. The harder you party, the faster you go down, and often don't even realize it until you are in serious trouble. What I mean by trouble isn't just the alcohol abuse, I mean when you try and stop and realize you can't cope with simple emotions without the filter of numbness, it is truly frightening, and you are only aware of it when you stop drinking, not when you take a day or two off, but know it's not there when you want it. My advice is to keep this in mind. There is no 'way around' the decline, you have to eventually decide what floor you want to get off at. You can choose to go all the way down, but I have been going to meetings and met many people who took that path, trust me, you don't want to go there.
Casual drinkers don't sit around wondering if they might be alcoholics. I know it sucks, but it's true.
Casual drinkers don't sit around wondering if they might be alcoholics. I know it sucks, but it's true.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 21
RD, you drink way more than I did, you are less in control than I was and you are older than I was at my worst. I'm an alcoholic. I've admitted it. I thought I was just a social drinker. I thought "everyone" drank like I did. Turns out I just surrounded myself with heavy drinkers as they were more 'fun'. Turns out I just deceived myself for 27 years.
You could do the same if you want. You can deny the possibly that you're a high functioning alcoholic (look it up) and you can ignore the long term permanent damage you are doing to your brain. It won't get you for a few more years yet, but those years will be characterised by decreasing performance in your work and personal life and increasing unhappiness. Read( up on the long term damage drinking does to your brain. ).
Or... you can wise up. Realise you are drinking excess of a slow and addictive poison and that there are weekly guidelines for a reason. If you exceed them, you risk and will probably get damage to your body and you will increase the hold it has over you. As I learnt, if you think you're an alcoholic,then you probably are. In your case I don't think you need the probably word.
Oh and I had a work excuse too (military) and I was a high flyer and I was very intelligent and I thought alcoholics drunk spirits from brown paper bottles in parks or while trembling alone... not like me... or more to the point you.
So stop hoping someone says "no you're not" and instead figure out what you're going to do.
You could do the same if you want. You can deny the possibly that you're a high functioning alcoholic (look it up) and you can ignore the long term permanent damage you are doing to your brain. It won't get you for a few more years yet, but those years will be characterised by decreasing performance in your work and personal life and increasing unhappiness. Read( up on the long term damage drinking does to your brain. ).
Or... you can wise up. Realise you are drinking excess of a slow and addictive poison and that there are weekly guidelines for a reason. If you exceed them, you risk and will probably get damage to your body and you will increase the hold it has over you. As I learnt, if you think you're an alcoholic,then you probably are. In your case I don't think you need the probably word.
Oh and I had a work excuse too (military) and I was a high flyer and I was very intelligent and I thought alcoholics drunk spirits from brown paper bottles in parks or while trembling alone... not like me... or more to the point you.
So stop hoping someone says "no you're not" and instead figure out what you're going to do.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 5
Alcoholism is just like boiling a frog. If the water is boiling and you put the frog in there it will jump out. If it is cold and you heat it up a couple of degrees at a time it will let you cook it till its dead. I was that frog and I didn't realize the water was getting hot till it was boiling. The sooner you can jump out of the water the more damage you are saving yourself. This is just my experience.....I can't speak for anyone but me. If you joined this site I think your heart is telling you something.
p***enger
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,025
Hi Randomdude,
NYC teems with alcoholics and addicts.
Many of us are outwardly "high functioning" meaning we're good at hiding our sickness from others and we're financially successful. We try lots of tricks to control our drinking in public and/or keep our private drinking secret, or both, just like you're starting to do. As somebody else here said, that's not the behavior of a "normal" drinker.
Many others have crashed & burned.
I've never known an alcoholic who didn't eventually crash -- or get sober. Physically, mentally, or in terms of ruined relationships/careers/lives. It's not a sickness you can maintain in.
My main question is, are you really having fun anymore?
I hope you keep coming to SR.
PS You wrote something like "the alcohol intake doesn't matter as long as the career is fine." Take it from me, if you have a problem, the career won't stay fine.
NYC teems with alcoholics and addicts.
Many of us are outwardly "high functioning" meaning we're good at hiding our sickness from others and we're financially successful. We try lots of tricks to control our drinking in public and/or keep our private drinking secret, or both, just like you're starting to do. As somebody else here said, that's not the behavior of a "normal" drinker.
Many others have crashed & burned.
I've never known an alcoholic who didn't eventually crash -- or get sober. Physically, mentally, or in terms of ruined relationships/careers/lives. It's not a sickness you can maintain in.
My main question is, are you really having fun anymore?
I hope you keep coming to SR.
PS You wrote something like "the alcohol intake doesn't matter as long as the career is fine." Take it from me, if you have a problem, the career won't stay fine.
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