paul99

I used to protect my drinking with all the tools at my disposal - rationalization(a few won't hurt), justification (if you had my life you'd drink too!), peer pressure (everyone else does it!), minimizing (it's not that bad, really), comparison (I am not as bad as so-and-so), etc. I am not saying that things won't turn around for you or that you will be successful in moderating, but many here have been in the place you are and weren't able to turn it. I am one of them, for sure.

I am not sure if numbers will change anything. Why play percentages with something life threatening?

RandomDude

The best thing to come from this post is all the people basically saying "it can happen to you." That helps, it's good to hear it come from someone, especially someone that's been there. I don't talk about my drinking, I'm not particularly open about like feelings and whatever. I've made a few offhand comments to people in the past but it just felt weird.



For the record I've absolutely made some changes in my behavior. In the span of like a month I had a couple things happen to me about 6 months ago (was partying on a Sunday, forgot to set an alarm, got in to work late, cardinal sin of Wall Street. Then a little later was out socially for a few drinks with people from work on a weekend and took the social gathering to be a full-blown let's go nuts and embarrassed myself a bit, nothing major, but people still joke about it. I just thank God I've lived in cities for like 8 years and never got a chance to get behind the wheel and do something legitimately destructive). I took those two to be a sign I need to clean myself up, despite doing no harm at all to my career (again, people at work do this **** all the time), those can't be repeated mistakes.

Anyway... I set an alarm on my phone on weeknights when I'm out with friends that goes off at 10:00pm and the text just says GO HOME. That's cut out those real late nights that aren't work-related. Even if I've blown through that 5 drink barrier just seeing a message from myself sober is enough.

I've also cut out the hard stuff from my binging. I love whiskey, I used to kick things off with a 2-3 whiskeys on the rocks then go start knocking back the beers. Now its just the beers, if I have whiskey it's not a night partying (or comes in shot form, which is manageable since the amount is so small).

I screwed up a little this past weekend, I'd been sick and this was my first time out in like a month. Was originally going to be for just a couple drinks and go home early, I ended up spending several hundred dollars on drinks and strippers over the course of a night. Again, not a huge deal, and the people I was with had fun, but it's the first time in the past 6 months I did something where I woke up in the morning and was like "dammit, I really wish I had just gone home. Or had a couple sodas in there somewhere." I don't really do strip clubs, so that's kind of personally embarrassing especially since it was my stupid idea, and that amount of money is far too much for one night. Plus I got into an argument with the bouncer about something, which I actually don't really regret even sober because I was totally right. Still don't need to be so aggressive though. Fell off my self-imposed wagon a tiny bit, probably why I decided to post here. I'm going to add another rule for myself that I only carry cash when I go out. Credit cards are bad news...


Anyway, not sure what those last few paragraphs are for, if I'm trying to justify things to myself or you all, or maybe I just need to put my feelings on this stuff out there somewhere since I don't have any other place to do it. Thanks for listening, at least.


Because the other side is career threatening. If I knew there was a 99% chance I go full on alcoholism, I'll quit right now and find a less lucrative career. If I know there's a 1% chance I go full on alcoholism, that's a rational gamble I'll take every single time. (I'm just making up numbers here to illustrate why I asked about percentages originally).

dox

I hear you saying, parenthetically, that you're making up the numbers. But you should know that the percentages are much less favourable than those.

Around here there are many in the rooms of AA that started their drinking career selling financial products and entertaining clients in the City of London. They relate stories similar to yours . . . so far.

The thing is, RandomDude, their drinking got progressively worse. The consequences of their drinking got worse and worse; never (or seldom) better.

What I am suggesting to you is: Ask yourself the question, "Is my drinking getting worse?" Please be honest with yourself, for you are the only one who can answer.

It may take some time for it to become bad enough for you to contemplate taking action other than chatting here. In my humble opinion, it will get bad enough. The percentages are not favourable. The good news is that there are many (some of them, your colleagues) who are, and will be, willing to help.

Is your drinking getting worse?

~dox

Tippingpoint

I think there is a 100% chance that you're going to have to deal with your alcohol addiction at some point in your life.

My day to day drinking never got horrible. It was the quarterly blow ups that really scared me. Pressure would always build for me to get really spectacularly drunk. I would look for opportunities - work trips, wife out of town, boys nights out etc. coccaine might be added to the drinking. Blackouts were likely. Vomiting and or physical injury were possible. It was these events that got me to a place where I could finally say....I can't do this anymore...I have to quit.

Quitting seemed like the absolute worst thing in the world but it hasn't been...not by a long shot. It's been really good. My life is so much simpler and I hate to say it but I actually feel superior in a way to those that haven't gotten control of their addictions. I walk through life with my head held high...there's no one that I can't look in the eye.

At the same time. I would never tell anyone that they have to quit. I had to do what I did to get to this point. For a lot of years I had a lot of fun.

I think of it more like - everyone has a number of drinks that they get to have in their life. Some people stretch those out to last a lifetime. My nephew was done by 24.

JRiverBlues

The tough news: those mechanisms you are placing on yourself to stop your drinking (phone alarms to remind you to stop drinking, only carrying cash, no more hard liquor) might be the surest sign you will not be able to control your drinking. Normal people don't have to do that. I'm sure there are countless people here who have tried all of those things; I tried all three.

RandomDude

No, but... I cranked it up to the current gear at the end of college several years ago, and stayed there since. My main concern is that it hasn't decreased, and traditionally the end of college signals the end of the crazy partying. I have sort of considered the "not getting better" to be the equivalent of "worse." That concerns me. Anything you wish you had done differently?

Juliedavid

Hi Random Dude you mentioned you have a very high tolerence also tough news - at your age I was also entertaining clients as I worked for one of the Big 4 consulting firms. Also used to come to work drunk after big nights, perfect job really for me as I could excuse my drinking saying it was my job that meant I had too. Oh I thought it was normal and that I would grow out out of it but looking back I had exactly the same problem as I do now - the setting changed but I still couldnt control my drinking - as I kept trying to control it whih is a sure sign as normal peeps dont need to do that - I used to say "only drink every consecutive day or only in the weekend.But in the end its the same thing - you are trying to control something that has control over you or else logically you wouldnt be trying to control it. The problem is and I empathise with you, is when its normalised and I guess that means that compared to them its ok. But as others have pointed out its progressive . I think you deep down know the answer to the questions you are asking or else you wouldnt be here.

Gottalife

" My next question would be how many people do just grow out of it, or maintain the same level with no real problems ever coming along."

The majority of people who have problems with alcohol either grow out of it, stop or moderate, usually on their own power but sometimes with some medical assistance. A small minority find they are unable to stop even when they want and need to, they lose the power of choice about whether to drink or not. AA calls this group "real' alcoholics"

"There are functioning alcoholics all over the office, as long as you can perform during the day and get face time with clients at night you're a winner. "

If they are real alcoholics, they are not functioning as much as dying. Alcoholism is a progressive disease which, unless arrested, ends in death or insanity. None of these will be winners if their disease isn't arrested.

" I need to be aware what my risk is and manage it, so I don't end up in that place where I legally or for my own health and safety need to completely stop. [/QUOTE]

It's not always possible to manage a disease through your mental faculties, especially if you lose the power of choice. Next time you catch a tummy bug with resultant diahorrea (forgive me if I spelt it wrong), try out your willpower. Make sure you have spare shorts, and socks and shoes too, just in case.

My point is, if you have this disease, you will inevitably reach a point where you will be unable to not drink, and your great assetts of intellect and will power will prove absolutely useless.

bnstphnsn

Truth! As far as what I did? I did nothing. When those methods failed me, I chalked it up to something (some sort of justification). It wasn't until I wrecked my car that I finally admitted that this problem was out of my control, bigger than me, and something that needed to be addressed. I totally understand your percentages arguement, the upside of a lucrative career may be worth risking health for a while.

I guess what you have to ask yourself is what would you give to avoid waking up at 40 and realizing you have thrown away 15 years of your life? 100 bucks? 500? 10,000? A million? 10 million? I think thats the real question: Is your everyday life and memories made worth slowly giving away everyday for a career that drives you to bars and alcohol to be successful? That's for you to decide. But if you want to get sober, you have a head start. Most of the people I see in AA meetings are much older than me, but what a GIFT! We're young enough to save ourselves 5, 10, 20, or 30+ years of alcohol-induced mediocrity.

And like I tell everyone on the fence:
You may not be ready, that is fine. Everyone knows when they have had enough. (Ironic thing to say to alcoholics :P) But, when you are ready we will be here.

JRiverBlues

I think if I had never started drinking heavily in high school and college, I would be able to drink appropriately today. Once you get to the point where mechanisms don't work, blackouts come earlier and more frequent and more scary, and your "off switch" gets worse and worse, I'm not sure there is much that can be done to remedy the problem.

Honestly, I think the problem is the effect alcohol has on us, not our lack of willpower or friends or job pressures.

Gravel

Randondude,

I would just stop if I was you. You are still very young and your heart hasn't hardened towards your health. At some point later in life you could realize you are destroying your body and it might be too late. Quitting at your age is smart. I didn't start until I was 30 but I lost almost all of my 30's to alcohol.

RaiseAnchor

I heard something that's pretty common which... once one may think the have a drinking problem and feel the need to cut back, they have a drinking problem. I developed quite a poor habit of drinking in excess in my mid-twenties. I also decided to pursue a more purified lifestyle in my mid-twenties. No one lives forever, but all I can really do is keep calm and try to make a nice time for myself and the others around me until it's over.

regeneration

RandomDude, your story made me think of when I was working and going out partying a lot. I worked in big media companies, in one I was working in for several years my boss had a cocaine and alcohol habit so was often off work, so would tolerate absences in the rest of us (as long as we did enough work to keep it covered no-one cared).

We had one temporary worker fall asleep at her desk once, she came in to work in red patent stilettos and skin-tight trousers, and a fake leopard skin fur coat after being out partying all night. No-one batted an eyelid, and just laughed when we had to wake her up.

This in many ways allowed me to continue to delude myself... I think in some ways I'd picked an environment where I could get away with it.

By the time I'd hit my mid to late 30s I had serious depression issues and I longer went out and drunk all the time, I started drinking at home.

My drinking went down in amount, but I felt awful but could not stop.

I did stop once in my early 20s but I was out of work and sat at home so managed it... but in day to day life if I was working I got drawn back to it.

I finally realised I couldn't control it when I hit 41, tried to stop, managed about 11 days then had a blackout where I couldn't remember getting home or what I'd said to people.

It took me years to realise that once you've got past a certain point control is no longer possible (and if you're trying to control then it may be time to think about stopping for a while). I honestly thought that alcoholics were people drinking in the morning, or drinking constantly throughout the day. I had to look at my thinking. It was only when I got sober and spent time with others who didn't drink as much I started to realise I should stay stopped.

If you decide to stop, there are plenty of recovery methods and message boards to give you support/advice. Good luck with it.

[EDIT] I meant to add... life is just a lot better without booze. It's weird... I used to think ex-drinkers were lying about enjoying a sober life. It's just so different now my life. Might be obvious to others but I thought initially life was over. Very glad to have left alcohol behind as I can deal with things now.

Xune

What do you consider to be full on alcoholism?

I still had a job, hardly ever called in sick, still married, still paid the bills, still kept active, still did family stuff and still kept up appearances outside of my house.

I was absolutely and unequivocally abusing and dependent on alcohol.

I am an addict and I cannot drink alcohol any longer. ( By the way, I started out as a binge drinker and like everyone else here, it eventually progressed to daily drinking)

My point is that the lying in the gutter, down and out homeless drunk is but a tiny fraction of people who're slaves to the bottle.

So, back to my original question?

uniquesituation

Im not the best expert here, but, I'll offer my thoughts on your thougths point by point. I'm kind of in the same boat as you, 10 years older, and a little more worried and...

I don't have a job to anchor me to reality at all, as I'm retired. But I will toss out my thoughts, partly in case it helps (maybe low odds of that) and partly just to use it as a chance to think about my own situation.

I thought it was captivating, fwiw. If I have 2 dirnks, I'm still bored and I don't care about liquor. As you said, exactly as you said, if I have 5, I'm having 15 and getting wasted. I have often said "I don't even get the point of drinking in moderation, just skip it", even in younger days when I rarely drank.

Wish I had any advice worth giving, but I sure thank you for the stimulating post.

uniquesituation

What I bolded above is gospel. Truth. Both for Wall Street (and especially there) and for business in general. It leads to drinking, NEEDED drinking, I cannot imagine that if I would have gone to all the business meetings I have gone to in my life, which has been awfully successful, that I would be as successful.

In fact, my largest customer that my largest business (by dollars it made me) ever had... became that customer over drinks. See we got drunk and then he confided that he loved strip clubs. I don't, and I'd never visit one of my own accord, but we went. He loved me ever after.

If you don't want to drink while at a business meeting, it is helpful if you have another vice to share with people, to help them feel comfortalbe drinking around you, and help them relax and let their guard down.

I took to smoking, while drinking only Amstel Light, due to its extremely low alcohol content. See, it has like 2.8% alcohol or something, and I've always had a low tolerance (historically unbelievably low, I could go from stone sober to chasing cars down the street drunk in 3 drinks, now its higher but I'm still often one of the first people drunk)... Drink the beer, but offer smokes. Many people don't smoke, just go smoke yourself, make sure ot offer everybody one, and be jovial, it can accomplish much of what being drunk can.

I would say the boobie bar thing would be another viable "substitute vice", say "no thanks gents, I can't drink for 2 weeks due to my medication or condition or whatever you can come up with"... follow? "but... I'll sure buy some lap dances!" That one would be tough for me, as I ... I just dislike strip clubs unless I'm really hammered.

I'm rambling, but alot of what I meant to say is solid. Hope it made some sense.

chickonabike

I'm sorry I haven't read all the responses to your post but drinking doesn't have to be the only way to socialize with clients. My father-in-law has never had a sip of alcohol in his life and has been a CPA for many companies and socializes a great deal. From his stories that I've heard - no one cares that he doesn't drink. They get too drunk so quickly to even notice that he just has a glass of water or root beer in his hand.

My weird advice is that if you are the one buying the drinks, order a coke or water but have the bartender put it in a "drink" glass. Water glasses and "drink" glasses are usually different in height. I'm sure the bartenders would understand. Then you won't get hassled by your clients for not drinking. But I think the best thing to do would to change the activity that you do to socialize with your clients. Golf? Go on a walk or hike? Go to a chic coffee shop and empress them with you knowledge of espresso? Just a few weird ideas. I don't work with clients but those tactics have seemed to work with my father-in-law and also my father (who doesn't drink either). Just my two cents.

RandomDude

Hey guys, thanks for all the replies over the course of the past few weeks. I've been a little busy, haven't gotten around to a reply but just in general want to say I appreciate the response.

First of all, uniquesituation, maybe we should talk. From your description you're basically me in 10 years, even down to random details like not loving strip clubs (I'm the same way, not really my thing, but occasionally I stumble in all loaded up with other people). Sounds like you're struggling to figure out this whole thing as well.

As far as what do I consider full-blown alcoholism... in my mind it's whether you can function day-to-day. To me, if your career is fine your alcohol intake doesn't matter. Although, I will admit a few times recently I've gone home with girls and been unable to... perform... because I was just so incredibly drunk. Don't like that, although if random anonymous sex is the only loss I'll take it - not like that's good for you either.

Anyway, since I last posted it's pretty much the same situation. I haven't done anything bad due to alcohol, but it's on my mind that I might have that animal inside me, you know? One thing I've noticed is just how much I outdrink EVERYONE by. Like we're just relaxing and I'll take down drinks at like 3:1 ratio of everyone else, without even really thinking about it. I don't need chasers on liquor, I don't need to stop or slow down with any kind of drink. That, I think. is a sign. I struggle to just relax and sip.

pattyj

Have you tried entertaining your clients and not having a drink? Sure, they can get obliterated or whatever. You can stay out til the bar closes. Treat them to strippers, whatever they want. But maybe stay sober yourself. You sound like you have a head on your shoulders and could probably joke and tell stories and entertain your clients just the same sober as you could drunk. It wouldn't hurt to just try.

I never thought I could go out with coworkers or friends and not drink. But I find that I still dance, sing, do crazy things without drinking and have a great time. And I can wake up on time for work and not feel like ****. You will feel better about yourself, about your night out, your wallet will thank you and you won't be questioning yourself or trying to tell yourself that everything is okay when it isn't.

I am in my late 20's, never thought of not drinking but have learned to really enjoy being sober. I don't have a job like yours but I'm sure you can figure out how to make millions without harming yourself so much.

Happier

It is very smart of you to be investigating this. Congratulations on that and on your work success.

Your story sounds very familar to me. I remember thinking that I would "need to keep an eye on it". I set limits, etc. Funny thing is that I slowly but surely kept raising the limits! It sneaks up on you. If you do finally figure out that you have a problem......well..... then it's too late. A little time reading on here will show how hard it is to stop then.

"Normal drinkers" don't really feel the need to control it. No need to control something that isn't a problem.

I wish you well. I respect that you are considering these types of important decisions. All I can say is that I sure wish I would have stopped back at your age when I specifically remember having the same sort of conversations with myself. Oh....and even thought I didn't know them at the time, so does my wife, several other close family members, some friends, etc. Unfortunately addiction casts a wide net that always captures more than just the user.