WishingWell

Hi,

I really respect that all of you are here looking for help with addiction. It's a big step for all of us to reach out for support and help.

I hope it's OK to ask for advice, please only give it if you feel comfortable.

My husband is an alcoholic, he was sober for almost 3 years after hitting rock bottom, a very, very scary place. He has now relapsed. He's in AA and has worked incredibly hard on his sobriety. The list of efforts he's made is very long. He is a very good guy, ultra responsible but this addiction is an unrelenting war for him.

I know the list of what "we're" not supposed to do when someone we love relapses. To stay on this course defies all logic and is difficult for someone without addictive tendencies to understand, and I'm sure for him, too. It will destroy our life and ultimately kill him if he can't stop.

So . . . in your life, what makes you feel encouraged to work on your sobriety from those that love you? And I'm not asking about someone else trying to fix it, that's lesson #1, I got that. No doubt, he has to do it. Yet, there are healthy ways to better interact and be supportive. It's hard not to fall into the trap of thinking that lecturing, anger rants and ultimatums might work but frankly - no one has to tell me that they don't. I've seen that firsthand. I go to Alanon but I've always really wanted to hear advice directly from someone who's lived it.

I would appreciate some candid, honest thoughts. It's great that we're all anonymous, I hope you feel that you can speak from the heart. I also wanted to know if you believe that finding a "psychological cause" for your addiction has been helpful for your sobriety? So many theories floating around -

From my heart, I sincerely thank you for any thoughts on this you might have!

CarolD

To understand why I often returned to drinking tho I did stop
for various short term pewriods...I read a book

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...influence.html

We have excerpts as a forum stickie on the above link.

I suggest you find a copy and you both read and discuss if it fits
your situation. Amazon usually carries it..not expensive either.

All my best to both of you....

tomsteve

hmmm, well, 1st off i am sorry to hear that he either let up on meetings, let up on praying, or let up on talking to his sponor or others in recovery. it is a very cunning, baffling,powerful, patient, and deadly disease.
have you tried approaching him in an honest, sincere way, but also have depth and weight to the message of what alcohol is doing to him?
maybe you could call his sponsor from AA and see if he will come talk to your husband.


for me, alcohol ws but a symptom of much deeper problem that had to be addressed. it worked best for me to address them with the help of poeple who had been where i was.

WishingWell

Thank you Tom!

Where you able to go to the deeper problems through AA?

He was going to AA everyday when he relapsed. I think the deeper problem, and that goes for everyone, is the key to healing. But again - I can't make him go there. He has to be ready and so far, I don't know. He's made "amends" with his family and that is where the pain was. He's said that he doesn't want to rock the boat by opening those wounds in himself.

When he first relapsed we had long and sometimes heated conversations. Hard not to - I could see that caused him to withdraw. He doesn't want to keep talking about "the addiction". Whether I stay or go, I'd like to be supportive of his recovery and it's hard to know how to verbalize that. The brain says - tell him how stupid this is, give him a good lecture, remind him of the past. And then everything I read about addiction says - don't use anger. Get back in your own life.

But in reality we're humans - it's never the perfect scenario. I was just wondering what your families have done, even after relapsing, to support you and that's helped you.

tomsteve

to put it shortly, yes. alcohol was but a symptom of a much deeper problem. for me the program and time helped me find out what made me tick and how to fix me and live sober. now, it is important to know that even the big book of AA says there are some problems that help outside of AA is recommeneded, but i personally wanted to work the steps and go from there. havent needed outside help.

"The brain says - tell him how stupid this is, give him a good lecture, remind him of the past."

yup, whenever i was lectured it drove me further away from recovery and closer to the bottle. i really didnt need to be reminded of my past. it was there. i knew. working with other practicing alcoholics, i found the best approach for me to use is to use the advise in the chapter "working with others" in the BB of AA. there is also a chapter dedicated 'to wives" that ya may be interested in. you can fint the big book online.

i got into recovery in 05. havent relapsed yet. when i was drinking,my family started pulling away from me. they werent gonna enable me to continue the insanity.

i sure hope he decides to get back into recovery. it has been an awesome journey and i sure would like to see him along for it. maybe he can get on here and do some reading to remember he isnt alone.

RobbyRobot

For me, just a recovery program was not enough to ensure i was at my best in recovery, and so i sought out therapy as well. There is no shame or whatever of a kind of failing in seeking out therapy, although some seem to think that if they can do without it, they have somehow managed a more successful journey. Not.

The worst possible experience in my sobriety is the times when I'm just another sober drunk, just not drinking, just getting thru my day. Those times are the worst, because i end up with just a processed and canned sobriety in cookie-cutter fashion, and all this at the expense of my inner happiness and self-empowerment.

I got sober to be very and fully sober, and sometimes that means stepping out of the box, and doing whats right for me, no matter how many others didn't feel it was something they needed for themselves, lol.

Try some therapy too, along with AA. For me, I used, and use, gestalt therapy.

I hope things get better ASAP for you and your husband. Courage at the worst of our times brings out the best in all of us.

WishingWell

You guys are so beautiful, your words of wisdom mean so much to me! Truthfully, I'd rather come here and get your advice - you know it, you've lived it, you have experience.

It's hard, since working on myself I have a very centered level of happiness. Not to say that finding a bottle of vodka didn't prompt me to dive into anger, I did. But short lived, days later I was right back into my life. Sometimes I wonder if I need to be more angry?! :-)

I just know now that whatever he chooses, I'll be fine on my own if I need to leave. He's been down to the worst of it, scenes in my head that I wish I could forget, so low into the addiction it's heartbreaking. I left him once for a year.

I just hope that I don't have to leave for good. He's a remarkable man, a loving husband and you know what? I WANT HIM TO LIVE.

Sometimes I'm not sure how to help him and I certainly don't want to harm him. I'm not talking about "help" as in enabling him, but as a friend encourage him towards life!

You know?

zjw

For me being a stubborn drunk who refused to say i even had a problem. I'd say be supportive of whatever he chooses. Perhaps highlight the good times of sobriety etc.. Lucky for me I have not relapsed. I've managed to fall in and out of trouble with the same problems before and had to reach deep to pull myself out. I'd remind him that he's beat it before he should be able to beat it again more then likely it'd even be easier this time around since he should be somewhat equiped with what it takes or realize what it takes and that it is not impossible.

My first go around getting sober is the only go around I havent relapsed and been sober over a year. I'm one of the types I suppose thats terrified to pick it up. I hope I dont loose that terror. I think quiting smoking and starting again so many times showed me how easy it is to slip up and fall right back intot he pit. The booze pit however I dont want to fall back into. I've quit smoking now too and quiting booze has taught me that perhaps i shoudlnt even think about touchen a cigarette again either obviously I have a problem.

My wife stood by me. even now a year later shes stood by me. My wife allowed me to go on drinking while i was in my pit. She didnt like it but she quit naggen me about it. I think that enabled me to realize for myself what was up. See for me her nagging made me just wanna drink more. She wouldnt support it tho she wouldnt buy it for me or fetch me one from the fridge etc.. it was always my problem. Now fast forward i'm sober. 30 days into my sobreity i had a bad day said screw it I'm haven a beer I've been sober 30 days I deserve it. Grabbed it sat down and she said to me oh come on you've been sober for 30 days you've had bad days before and didnt pick up your going to let 1 bad day get you started again? I said absolutly I dont care!! then she got real sad and i felt real bad so i never opened it and put it back in the fridge. I'll never forget that look of sadness on her face and i'm so happy she reacted how she did had she just condoned it i probably would still be drinking right now.

WishingWell

Thank you!! I know that the anger that comes out is not supportive. He knows he screwed up. Good, solid advice > "remind him that he's beat it before he should be able to beat it again"

My husband hit the ground very hard and almost literally died detoxing by himself about 4 years ago, in his 40's. Scared him straight, until the relapse. I hate to think that he's going to have to hit that ground again?! Isn't there a time where an addict can stop without facing the worst? The chances of being that fortunate to have lived through that . . . ? To test his fate again would be devastating.

I wish to God there was a "cure" for this. Some help that is more advanced for all of you suffering, and all of the families suffering, too. So wonderful to hear of success!

zjw

Whats funny is the simplicity of quiting. What is so hard about simply putting it down. Simply not buying it simply not consuming it simply saying no. Its a whole lot easier to just follow directions and not do it it takes less effort then doing it. Its us and our complicated minds that make it so stinken complicated. Many things in life are like this very simple the path is laid out the directions and rules have been defined so we wont falter and what do we do? we go screwing it up! AAAA. I try to remember these types of things when when i ponder how hard this is or isnt or think i might falter.

And as simple as I just made it sound I'll be the first to admit quiting drinking was probably hands down one of the hardest things I ever did!! Go figure. the difficulty was in my mind and healing from the physical damage i had done.

jimihendrix

My wife didn't nag me or issue ultimatums, but she was a major force in my choosing to become sober.

why?

1. in a calm and matter of fact manner, she told me how my drinking made her feel. she said she felt alone even when i was there, and that our conversations felt empty.
2. she set clear boundaries for herself. for example: she wasn't going to ride in a car with me if i had been drinking. or she would calmly leave if i had been drinking too much.
3. she did not want me at parties/gatherings that were important to her if i was going to drink. and if i crossed those boundaries, she told me the next day how i had hurt her.

she never told me i had to quit, or threatened to leave if i didn't quit. she simply let me know how my actions were impacting her. it took courage for her to tell me, but knowing how i made her feel was central to my decision to quit. she knew i had to do it on my own.

i've been sober for over a year. we don't make a big deal out of it or talk about it much. she is clearly a much happier person, and it makes me feel good that i have become a better husband. she knows what to expect from me, i'm always present, and she and i have more genuine fun together.

zjw

My wife does prefer now a days to make certain statements. For example I might rattle off an old drinking habit IE gobbling down a few ibrprofin with a large glass of water after a night of heavy drinking prior to bed then wake up and do the same to beat the hang over and i might go on to mention to her that its just downright amazing i'm alive. To which she will reply "and you said you didnt have a problem...." Again it took over a year after i quit to admit that i had a problem. Its still hard for that to kinda sink in becuase at the time it was not a problem to me so in my cazy logic i still think well if it wasnt a problem for me at the time then it wasnt a problem. But then of couse I can look back and go gosh i was a bit out of control ok a maybe a lot more then a bit *sigh*

My wife doesnt take a lot of crap its really amazing she tolerated mine. It should tell me something about how much she cares that she didnt just walk out. Yet i still sit around questioning if she cares or not all the time ::facepalm::

WishingWell

I have a question - if anyone has had this experience >

My husband, as I said, could've died. He should've died. He tried to detox alone, with alcohol and then Ativan and Xanax that a hospital rehab program prescribed him. He was in a living hell. There is no doubt and that description is kind.

So, by grace of "God", you survive, right? You've lost your income, your home, your wife and now nearly your life. Frightened to the core, that person swear it off for years. Life improves 1000%. Then one day, a person walks into a grocery store and thinks . . . what ??????

And starts it all over again. This is what the logical mind of a non-alcoholic just cannot fathom.

zjw

It defy's logic. I almost constantly have to talk sense into myself. its the nature of an addict really. You think meh i can handle it this time or whatever excuse you come up with and *Snap* its got its claws back in ya again.

I new a herroine addict years ago had done so well. He relapsed it started out just little stuff pain pills and such. Next thing you know he was wearing long sleeves in the middle of july to cover the railroad tracks on his arm. Now any sane individual would GO WOW YOU HAVE A PROBLEM ALARM GOES OFF his arm looked like he should have been rushed to the hospital. He fessed up to me that he was back into it just a little. Judging by his arm it was a bit more then a little!. WHY did he do this? Because he's an addict. There really isnt a logical reason.

Yes obviously the path to sobreity is very simple just dont drink how hard can it be?!!.

I'd imagine everyone does some pretty stupid things that defy logic. Think about it for a second is there anything you do thats really stupid that defys logic yet you keep doing it? Aside from drinking one for me might be eating bad foods I know it makes no sense I know it makes me fat I know that if i want to be thin and healthy i need to eat properly but i still conitnually eat garbage how does that make any sense?

Do you like soda? Sodas pretty bad for you why do you drink it knowing that?

Theres no logic to it really other then I guess we are all fallable. We are not perfect sadly.

I hope this makes some sense I agree why would you go through that hell just to slip up again? Makes no sense. I coudlnt breathe from all the smoking i did I quit then i started up again WHY!!?! Luckily i'm quit now again have been for a while ::crosses fingers::

zjw

another example my wifes father hated that i smoked constantly ragged me for it. He like you could not FATHOM why i would do such a thing its so bad for me.

I could play that same arguement on him why does he eat so much ice cream its horrible for him i cannot fathom why he thinks its ok to consume that stuff..

see neither of us is perfect. everyone has there flaws and vices. For some its booze for others its herroine another might love milky ways. Its just how it is. Continually trying to be better is the important thing and doing your best even tho your best may not seem good enough so long as its your best thats all that matters.

Keep in mind your perspective is that of someone whos not an alcoholic. It will be harder for you to understand. Just like when my 1 year came and went none of my non alcoholic friends cared. But all my alcoholic ones where estatic go figure

WishingWell

It's a mystery for sure.

OK what have I done that defies logic? Fair question. I expect people to be different no matter how many times, the thousands, they show me who they are. Doesn't matter. I've been known to keep myself stuck there, refusing to give it up. Until finally - I did. Took decades.

But, that flaw doesn't cause me to lose my life. I didn't have shakes, wasn't bleeding internally, didn't lose a job over it, wasn't vomiting in a bathroom, didn't destroy my family, my liver . . .

Addiction is extreme on every level. And the fact remains that many people (why it's called an addiction) go back and back and finally die from it. A terrible death.

I have no doubt that addiction is a brain disorder. I also have no doubt that when in the grips of that chemical the brain is physically damaged. I've seen the brain scans.

Which makes it all the more hard to deal with and so heartbreaking. Someday - I do think science will find more help for this. In the meantime watching the person you love fighting the monster is - horrible on every levels. You can't help. And if you try to help, you're enabling, or fixing. They have to hit bottom and the list goes on . . .

The worst maybe that in the end we lose the ability to stay and forgive because that love of ours, has become the monster . . .

NYCDoglvr

I almost died drinking. In a blackout I took many valium (to this day I have no idea why), ended up in the psyche ward for three days. On my hands and knees to AA. First three months were awful, I just sat in meetings crying. That was 21 years ago.
I know I have another drink in me but I don't think I have another recovery. Keeps me going to meetings; I treasure my sobriety and my life now.

It's unfortunate that your husband isn't the one asking for advice and help. As I'm sure you've learned in Al-anon there is nothing anyone can do or say that will get an alcoholic to stop drinking. Recovery and sobriety are inside jobs. Hopefully he will want to stop, to just not have a drink today.

zjw

I read a study that its lack of nutrition that ends up causing people to become alcholics. I found it pretty interesting it would make a lot of sense that if your not making proper diet choices getting proper exercise and keeping a proper balance in your life that you very well may end up leaning towards a substance to try and get your balance. When what yous hould be doing isjust making those common sense good choices.

Thats probably the simplest answer I can give you. Now if you factor in circumstances outside of the alcoholics control that casue there balance to go off kilter and cause them to lean on some kind of a substance thats a tough one. BUT taking the proper steps above should keep you in check to handle what ever life throws at you.

One thing I always come back to is we where not created to live in a society liek what we have right now. Lifes hard theres a lot of temptations temptations so great that its dang hard to make the right choices. Its a really hard struggle to make good choices day in and day out with all thats thrown at us.

One thing leads to another and you got someone like me who drank my friggen brains out smoked like a chimney and had all sorts of problems as a result. I had to get a dang grip on myself. I had to get these thoughts into check. I had to get more balance and order in my life and finally realize that some substance is not hte answer look for a more positive solution then tossing back a zillion drinks!.

I see your point tho it seems INSANE someone would do this to themselves. While in the pit of depression and despair the alcoholic is simply not thinking clearly but is quite honestly mentally ill and there is not a rational logical explanation other then that.

Some might say driving a car is insane. or riding on a motor cycle. Man was not made to go at those sort of speeds safely. But we do it everyday and tell ourselves its ok despite the fact that i'm sure many of us have seen some horrible accidents. Being an alcoholic is a lot like that oh sure i had seen ions of drunks have problems but i still did it anyway thinking that sorta stuff would never happen to me.

WishingWell

Good points, ZJW!

NYCD, my husband is in AA and also therapy. He is asking. How he thinks or what he does or doesn't do, isn't my job. My job is to live my life well. And part of that is to understand how I react, why and what I can do to be more healthy in my life on every level.

WishingWell

I want to deeply thank all of you who responded! It's given me much to think about and I so appreciate hearing your thoughts. Happy to hear more but I really don't want to take up your time on this board!

Want you to know that I've appreciated this conversation!!