Justfor1

I was thinking about the concept of alcoholism as a disease. IDK if I believe it's a disease or not. But I did use it as an excuse to keep drinking/drugging. I thought it was okay to show up to work at 9AM drunk as a skunk. I actually told my boss that morning, "yes I'm drunk now but you know I'm an alcoholic!" I thought it was my right to buy illegal drugs because I was an addict. I would stroll right pass the cop car & go into the house to buy drugs & not care. I like to think that I'm powerless after I pick up the first drink. But I'm not powerless over many choices in my life. I drank because I thought it gave me some control over the stressful situations I faced. Many are as a RESULT of drinking/drugging. I hope this makes sense & someone else can relate.

Sudz No More

I'm sure you aren't alone in your thinking but I came from a different angle of alcoholism. I was very functional and proud of the fact that I could get up for work the next morning and work my ass off and nobody would ever know I had been drinking really hard the night before. Although I always made sure to get some sleep and would eat good before I left for work.

I do relate though that I didn't care for a long time when I was in a private setting even if there were non drinkers present. If I was off from work at home or even out at the bar where drinking is accepted I would pound regardless of who saw me.

I mostly tried to hide it though and I never really thought I had a problem. Even after two DUI's I still thought I had it under control. I never used Alcoholism as an excuse because I only viewed myself as an Alcohol Abuser not and Alcoholic.

I came to realize I am truly an Alcoholic after I tried to really quit almost three years ago. I have been battling the reality that I am Alcoholic ever since.

BruceJ

Yep...I really don't think it matters what tag we put on the disorder/disease/phenomenon/malady/sickness/whatever....but when we become aware that we have "it".....it becomes our responsibility, unless we live alone on a desert island, to do something about it.

DayTrader

I agree with Bruce. Some ppl are helped by hearing it's a disease......great. Others feel calling it a disease is a cop-out and they don't like the term....that's fine too. I hear others refer to it as a blessing because without it, they wouldn't have sought growth in the areas in which they did (interesting concept, isn't it? ). I don't mind what word someone chooses.

One the powerless deal......I used to be with you Just. Only powerless after the first but that was it. My false ego wouldn't let me consider much more. In time though, I've seen a whole lot more powerlessness in my life than power. That said, I do NOT believe I'm completely powerless nor do I believe I'm powerless over ppl, places or things.

freshstart57

I don't like the idea of alcoholism or any addiction for that matter being a disease. If it is a disease, it is the only one that can be cured by eliminating its major symptom (drinking to excess) or that can be placed into remission by a spiritual awakening. Please. This consideration should quell the debate, but somehow it doesn't.

The AMA, currently boasting a membership of less than 30 % of the doctors in the US, has pronounced it a disease by publishing a paper written by a few people whose self proclaimed vow was to change public opinion to this effect. The AMA also says that cigarette addiction is a disease too. I can't put any stock into what this group endorses anymore since I learned about multiple cases of fraudulent sale of its endorsement to manufacturers that advertised in its journal.

I believe that this concept of alcoholism being an incurable disease puts us behind the 8 ball from the outset by denying our ability to rise above this condition. It seems to remove the choice, the power and essence of the human spirit we all share, the qualities we need to overcome our addictions. I just don't believe it helps.

ReadyAndAble

I don't care what someone calls their addiction. But I absolutely relate to what you're saying about responsibility, JF1.

Making excuses, assigning blame, dodging responsibility—those were hallmarks of my addiction. And you know the craziest part? The person I hurt the most was me. I walked around all day with all this toxic, stressful stuff in my head, blaming other people, fate, the world for my woes. Which of course made me want to drink even more. The cause of my problems was masquerading as the cure, just as you said. The cycle of addiction.

Life is so much better now. It's liberating to take responsibility for my choices, good and bad, past and present. It's not always fun meeting my obligations, but it is always empowering. I've found that the more difficult the obligation, the more rewarding it is to meet. And because I feel better about myself, I feel better about other people, including the very people I used to blame for my woes. Yet another cycle, but this time, a virtuous one.

Thanks for the post, JF1. Cool topic.

RobbyRobot

I can get my head and heart around me being powerless over the obssession for alcohol -- and that is where it starts and stops for me. Never have I been required to agree, that my AA sober spiritual life is powerless, or in anyway that myself is powerless. Human beings are not powerless, and that's just plain truth.

Having said that, my alcoholism as an illness of my mind, body, and spirit, creates within me my sick inability to be both obsessed by alcohol, and powerful against it at the same time. I'll eventually cave into that obssession thru my alcoholic-minded thinking if the mental obssesion is not removed. Full stop.

The mental obssesion is removed by having a revolutionary change in my psyche, and in the process of that change from alcoholic minded thinking to sober thinking, my alcoholism illness is unempowered, made silent, arrested, put to sleep -- and yet remains within me as a now ineffectual illness, seperated from my sober life. That process can be called a spiritual experience by some, called an epiphany by others, and simply called a change of mind-set and living styles. The description is entirely subjective, as is the process of change an entirely personal experience, and usually a series set of experiences.

So for me, I have complete control over all my choices, including the choice to quit, obviously, because I have indeed quit. Let's be honest. AA program and sobriety helped me by removing my mental obsession with alcoholic drinking, and opened the doors to my own understanding of spiritual living. I changed out my alcoholic mind for a sober mind. I did not lose anything in the bargain. I gained eveything, truth be told, and I've been happily, successfully living as a fully recovered alcoholic drug addict for decades now, thru both good and bad times. I haven't suffered, even for a day whatsoever, from alcoholism for decades now, either. Sweeeet!

Alcohol addiction and/or alcoholism is never an acceptable, sane, excuse for anything. AA is not a cop-out, never was for me, never will be, lol. Spiritual living is a blast, and I'll continue playing the cards dealt to me, no problemo.

AVRT rocks too, heh heh !!

RobbyRobot

I hear you, and I respect your experiences, FS.


We just don't agree with what the problem is. It seems we do have a working agreement with a real solution: AVRT.

Cool.

jennikate

Wow! Very well summed up Robby. I have trouble with the word disease. I see it as more of a mental illness. Like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, the compulsion to do something that is irrational can be exceedingly strong. I assume that when someone with OCD is doing a ritual, they know that on the face of it, the action makes no sense. Still they feel compelled to do it. I feel the same about alcohol. I knew, at some point, that it made no sense to continue drinking yet I still did it. And we're not talking about satisfying any pleasure centers here. That had long ago ceased to exist. I do not have OCD so this analogy may be completely wrong and I apologize to those with OCD if I have mischaracterized the disorder. It's just the closest I can come to explaining my thought that while alcoholism, to me, is not a disease, it is disordered thinking. Can I control it? Clearly, I can. But my thinking will always remain disordered and I must use everything in my power to stay rational.

DayTrader

Probably because for many of us, cessation of drinking doesn't fully treat our alcoholism as it did yours. For me, "not drinking" isn't the solution.

freshstart57

Robby, that was eloquent and well-considered, with mindless recourse to childish slogans and lazy thinking that typify the pro-disease faction both conspicuous by their absence. It is not true for all, but for us it is an intellectual debate, and that really is the best kind, don't you think?

It is interesting that the disease model is widely held by non-medical folks but not by doctors, as some would have us believe. I just found this from Physician's News Digest:

A recent Gallop poll found that almost 90 percent of Americans believe that alcoholism is a disease. In contrast, physicians’ views of alcoholism were reviewed at an August 1997 conference held by the International Doctors of Alcoholics Anonymous (IDAA). A survey of physicians reported at that conference found that 80 percent of responding doctors perceived alcoholism as simply bad behavior.

And who is International Doctors of AA (IDAA.org)? They are 'a group of approximately 6000 recovering health care professionals of doctorate level who help one another achieve and maintain sobriety from addictions' and AA proponents, too. From this, I take that doctors, not even AA doctors, believe this disease stuff.

OK. Just like you, my alcoholism made me sick in mind, body and spirit. Boy Howdy I was a mess. All of my symptoms disappeared when I stopped pouring cheap vodka in great quantities down my neck. The illness that remains in me is, well, I can't tell you what it is. I've looked and I just can't find it. My doctor who runs the blood tests, checks my liver function and measures my BP, and my shrink can't find it either.

We share another result of this common trial, Robby, and that is a new way of looking at our place within our personal daily experience. Like you, I did indeed have an epiphany when I understood that I no longer had to drink. There certainly was a revolutionary change in my psyche that morning exactly one year ago. Through my pursuit of mindfulness and other sober living tools, I have indeed become a more thoughtful person, and more spiritual in many ways.

I believe that for you and me, our discussion can be centered about the question of cause and effect. For you, the spiritual awakening you experienced placed into remission this disease of alcoholism, whereas for me, refusing to drink ever again allowed me to reconnect with that greater existence and access that place of peace that lives inside us.

Chickens and eggs. Cool.

RobbyRobot

Thanks, jennikate.

My understanding of OCD as an illness, is that kind of obsession has no relief, and no workable remission. OCD can be of course managed, and yet the obsession continues unabated. A very challenging illness, to be sure.

My understanding of the alcoholic mental obsession, is it can be abated, and even banished, from our daily living experience. I would agree that the anology you have shared shows your acceptance that both obsessions indicate disordered thinking, and perhaps that is where it starts and ends. You've graciously allowed for any misunderstandings in your post, so way awesome on you.

RobbyRobot

Absolutely.


Yeah, we do share that common experience of newness when reflecting on our past epiphanies of our enjoyed respective psychic revolutions of change.

Way Cool.

wheresthefun

Great thread!

jennikate

Good point, Robby. I have had a lifting of the obsession to drink. I don't know how or why to be honest with you. I guess you could call it a spiritual awakening but I'm an athiest so to me that doesn't quite describe it.
I guess, for me, it's still that word disease. I believe alcoholism is an extremely complicated illness which medicine doesn't even come close to fully understanding. I think excess consumption causes your brain chemistry to be affected. Causes brain damage. I do think there is a genetic component. I think our brains react differently to alcohol.
But that being said, we have to deal with the hand that we were given. Does it suck? Sure, most of us would rather not have to have dealt with this challenge. But that's not the way it went. I have a choice to make every day. Being informed about the origins/root cause of alcoholism is important but it's more critical that I do everything in my power to not drink today.

Justfor1

freshstart, I relate to your post. At what point does the Alcoholism end? I mean maybe I was just an anti-social criminal?
People can't have it both ways. If it's a disease why are people surprised when a drunk relapses? Sometimes, I think the disease concept was started to make alcoholics/addicts feel better. I know in some countries the disease concept does not exist. I struggle with the disease model of addiction because you folks & the rehabs tell me I'm sick yet mainstream never treated me in such a manner. Ironically, ER hospitals & staff were especially "tough" with me.

rockindog

I don't know. Cancer is a disease. MS is a disease. I have come to the reality that I am a drunk. It is only continuing to get worse. Affecting my job, my marriage, my health. I am trying to get there, but what should be simple, isn't. This is really hard.

Cephas

To imply I am recovered or cured is to imply I can drink alcohol as a non alcoholic person can. That's not posible for me. In this way I see Alcoholism/Addiction as a disease just as someone with celiacs disease, diabetes, heart disease, etc. has to watch what they put into their bodies. We can put the harmful substances into our bodies and live but it is dangerous and effects our quality of life.

That is the physical part of the "disease".

With alcoholism there is a mental feature that requires for me to have a better way of life. They psychic/spiritual change has to be a new better way of life to remove the obsesion of taking the first drink. The psycic/spiritual change for me has been to change the perspective of focusing on alcohol and fighting it to one of a new way of life that has nothing to do with alcohol. The obsession is removed. The reality of peace and joy through caring about and helping others as aposed to the self centered life of me me me and more and more alcohol.

Alcoholism is a sickness, illness, disease. The good news with this disease is that there are things I can do about it. You can't say that about all diseases. That is where the responsiblility comes in. Something can be done, am I going to do something about it or not?

Powerlessness exsists in active addiction. Power can be found outside of active addiction.

Justfor1

It effected my whole life also. Someone told me though that whether I have a disease or not it shouldn't matter. I'm dying. If I was on fire & someone had a hose with water would I question it? :rotfxko

FlyerFan

Who cares if its a disease or not, you said it yourself, it's not an excuse. I mean, if you had an allergy to peanuts would you eat them? lol