Pigtails

As in, the "better version" of me that I know exists, or even the "perfect" version of me that I can never be but want to strive towards? Or is this an insane idea? I just can't seem to wrap my head around any kind of "power" greater than myself. I do not believe in any kind of deity (and I have tried but it just doesn't happen). So I was using the universe/fate/destiny because it's out of my control and I know I need to give things up to it... but I don't understand the point of "PRAYING" to the universe/fate/destiny when it is outside of my control and I know that praying to it won't change anything. It kind of seems like an oxymoron to me to be praying to it. So I figured, well since I *can* change myself and my own actions/attitudes, why not pray to myself?

bbthumper

Do you believe you are powerless over alcohol? If so, you being your own higher power doesnt seem that it will do you much good. Many people use the group as their HP to start. A strength in numbers kinda thing. Then later they may develop a better understanding of what they believe. Maybe that would suit you better? AA teaches that selfishness and self-centeredness are the root of our problem. I would suggest avoiding making you your own higher power. We gotta get out of ourselves. As the book says "we must or it kills us."

sugarbear1

Wow, really? When I'm my own higher power, I get drunk. I try to control the world around me. I am whoever I need to be to get my own way. I am IT. It's my way or the highway and if you don't bow to me, then I can shut you out of my life. I am all powerful, all knowing, I will even tell you what I believe you are thinking. It's about me, me and me and only me. I don't care what others think, it's all about me. I'm special, I'm unique, I am all powerful and I know better than anyone else.

The big book says we are like great actors, always putting on a show.... (something like that).

Seriously, pigtails? For what it's worth, if you are willing to go to any lengths to stay stopped and are even considering AA and the 12 steps, the only thing you need to do is believe that others have worked through the steps with someone who has had a spiritual awakening as a result of working the steps with another......

Step 3 did NOT make any sense to me until after I got to step 7. I blindly believed in my sponsor's higher power--that I was under the care of that higher power so I could get through steps 4 & 5.

6 & 7 weren't difficult once I had that immediate relief of step 5.

For me, the obsession to drink left me along with some other stuff which is how I came to believe in a power greater than me (some fears, phobias and anxiety). I knew I didn't do that on my own.

After working through the steps, I was more aware of my habits which continued to make some of these things reappear, but over time, I could see things more clearly, especially after staying stopped for a longer period of time and slowly I evolved into who I am today, not much different than I had been, I just felt okay in my own skin and the rest fell into place.

I came to believe in a power greater than myself AFTER I worked through the steps. This is the direct result of a spiritual experience after I did the work. Wow. Step 2 was a willingness to believe or a willingness to set aside my old beliefs that maybe there was a power greater than me. I did nothing other than be willing to believe. Simple, not easy.

Stay stopped again, get a little clearer headed and work with someone who has worked the steps and who has had a spiritual experience as a direct result of working through the 12 steps.

Or find another program to work. You can do this. You are worth it.

Love ya,

awuh1

I know well about not believing in any kind of deity. That was me for a vast majority of my life. I told someone that and they asked if I thought anything was more powerful than I was. I replied “gravity”. Much like you I found it impossible to pray to the laws of nature. Yet the question made me puzzle about the nature of things.

I sympathize with your plight. It’s not as though a person can decide to believe. At least I could not. I had to become more open minded than I had been previously and really search.

While I searched, Group Of Drunks became my GOD. They were certainly more powerful in their battle with alcohol than I had been. But me doing it on my own? That method had a proven track record of failure. Thank GOD I didn’t try that again.

2granddaughters

I was just reading in my AA literature that there is only 2 simple things I need to know about GOD .....

1) There is one.
2) I'm not it

All the best Pigtails, it is quite a journey for some of us. (I mean folks like me)

Another simple truth that amazed me....
If I keep trying to understand, I will understand.


Go to meetings to hear what the oldtimers say... keep going until what they said makes sense .

All the best.

Bob R

bbthumper

Another thought... It is the seeking, not the finding of a higher power that matters most.

PaperDolls

Praying is meditation for me .... it calms me, centers me, clears my head a bit. Some days I call it meditation and not prayer because I still have that 'thing' in my head about not conforming to this god idea.

Also, I found it easier to pray when I quit asking for things I wanted or for thing to be a certain way. It never worked and I just ended up pissed off.

I ask for serenity, acceptance, courage,& wisdom. Often times, just the time I've spent NOT thinking about whatever was bothering me, gives me those things even if it's just for a short time. When it runs out .... repeat the meditation/prayer.

DayTrader

A LOT of truth in those statements.

The biggest difficulty I had with "God" and "seeking God" was that I didn't WANT to.... didn't feel like it.

Getting over "me" and the mistaken beliefs (that had no grounds in reality, mind you.....just psychotic wishful thinking) helped. And it took some pretty bad beatings mentally and emotionally to begin to set those old beliefs/hopes aside.

Pigtails

Thanks everyone. I'm going to think all of this over. I do enjoying meditating but to me I just cannot pray to "something", even gravity or a group of drunks, I just don't get that. Perhaps I should look into secular models of addiction recovery because I do know there are people who believe they can be strong enough to overcome their addiction on their own power. I'm not saying I am, but I am just trying to find a program/method that feels right for me and the "higher power" concept of AA baffles me. I do not feel right just going along with group mentality until it sinks in... to me that feels like brain-washing and yeah maybe I need to be brain-washed to be able to stop drinking but I really do want to think that there is program that makes sense from the beginning to me. Thanks again.

Deserto

Hey Pigtails, have you tried reading Rational Recovery or the Tao of Sobriety? Those both helped me.

I do think (though I'm not in AA) that at some point the spirituality bit is inevitable.. you have to confront it to find meaning in sobriety.

That doesn't have to be through AA, though.

Good luck, glad to have you back.

omegasupreme

The text mentions finding the Great Reality deep within, and in the Final Analysis only there can it be found. Among other non duality pointers in our text it also says there is one who has all power and that one is God...I experience and understand that oneness especially in amends...atonement...at-one-ment. The loss of that feeling of apart-ment, differnet-from-ment, better-than-ment, etc... I have come to an understanding that God is a part of me just like God is a part of you. A wave is a part of the ocean but it's not the ocean, or fish swimming in water.

How do I get to this understanding? via Truth, or truth, Nothing, or nothing...the fewer concepts and beLIEfs the better right? After all if they came from my mind how much truth could they possible have? I'd love to sit here and type that I am always in a position of neutrality and just Am, Is, or Being...am, is, or being 24/7 but as far as I know enlightenment hasn't occurred...maybe it has and the part of me that would know is gone. I suspect at least one or two on this site know me well enough to vouch otherwise

Most often I use the word God because it is three letters and one syllable...quick and easy to say. Simple as that.

Quotes are from the first edition of Alcoholics Anonymous

PaperDolls

Pigtails - There are also, somewhere here on SR, a list of the 12 Steps adapted for atheists. May be that could help as well.

You have to do what ever works for you.

aeo1313

I get where you are coming from. I do believe in God, but I rarely pray or even meditate. I barely even think about it. I believe there is a God/higher power, I just don't think often about "him"/ "it"/ "whatever". I seem to be doing ok.

bbthumper

Check out XA-Speakers - The lights are on! and search for a Don C. speaking at a meeting called Saturday Night Live in Garfield Hts Oh.
He is an atheist in AA with long term sobriety. YOu may find something helpful in his lead.

CarolD

PT ...

Good to see you posting again
There is no wrong way to live sober and well.

I moved this into Alcoholism so members who are useing
secular concepts will be able to reply to you.

Also check out this Forum....

Secular Connections - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

Wishing you all the best recovery brings....

2granddaughters

Pigtails, I had/have to conform to AA, not get AA to conform to me.

And it is the hardest, most UN-natural, painful, frustrating, time consuming thing I've ever undertaken.... and the most rewarding.

A recovery program that made sense to me would be as flawed as the thinking that got me here. I HAVE TO CHANGE.

All the best.

Bob R

Paulos

Sure Pigtails if you believe in yourself enough.

Db1105

I make a lousy God. My sponsor told me to just fake it, just pray to a tree if you have to, and just to get working on the steps. In the end I just adopted the serenity prayer, my own feelings and being a hypercrit be dammed. It worked for me.

tomsteve

welp, you could "try" being your own higher power, but if you look at it, thats prolly what got ya where you are.

if you are like me you already have a higher power greater than you in your life: john barleycorn.

IMO, asking this question is admitting there is a higher power in the universe greater than you, its just a matter of accepting it.


" I know that praying to it won't change anything."

can you explain why you feel this way? is it contempt prior to investigation?
you may want to read and study the chapter"we agnostics" more.

Dee74

Some people need the higher power, some don't.

Why not explore something like SMART or AVRT and see if that resonates with you PT?

D