Naltrexone & Campral - Abstinence vs Controlled?
 

Ok, first i would like to note that anything read below is not an every day thing, i am what i would term as a "binge drinker" meaning i get periods of complete sobriety, then sometimes days, sometimes weeks or months later i try it again, its controlled and fine, then it creeps up and up over a week or more until boom...

I have had numerous (too many to count) occassions where I have totally lost control of my drinking, been on a binge for numerous days and come out the other side baffled, confused, depressed, anxious and down right ashamed of myself...

I have also had occasions where Im sitting in on a saturday night trying to abstain, knowing everyone else is out at a party, getting very agitated and then starting to crave alcohol in one way or another (whether its the social aspect, or just to relieve the way i feel)... Ive used it for every reason under the sun from heightening pleasurable experiences, when im angry or stressed, down in the dumps, as rewards, everything...

I was never sure whether to call myself an alcoholic or a problem drinker but i think that thats just a play on words that would convince me im fine to drink...

I do not drink all day every day, and when i do "go off" it isnt "moderated" all-day top up drinking like some people seem to where i can still function, its full blown intoxicated drunk as a skunk type drinking... I started calling myself an alcoholic when i experienced shakes after some binges and had to be given chlordiazepoxide (librium) just to enable me to sit down and not be trembling..

It also doesnt turn into a full blown bender from the very first drink straight away, the first night after a period of abstinence i might get away with possibly 6 or 8 beers or the equivalent in spirits, but then gradually, usually unnoticably to myself it creeps up over a week or two until it goes bang and im drunk for 2 or 3 (and in some sporadic cases many more) days at a time...

The doc had prescribed me campral (acamprosate) and i get it on repeat prescription to reduce cravings, but after quite a number of sprees and hangovers i went back and mentioned i would like to try naltrexone... i was lucky because it is not licenced for use in the uk for alcoholism but my doctor said he is happy to prescribe it for me off record for alcohol abuse because it does get results...

Now my problem lies in hearing about the sinclair method... i now take both campral and naltrexone and have not had a drink for a number of days - but this method seems to claim that if i drink, and take 50mg naltrexone before hand i will be able to stop when i want? or this is the basic idea im getting from what im hearing?

What are peoples opinions of controlled drinking while taking campral and naltrexone in the circumstances described above? I know people will think why not just abstain but for 9 years all i have known for a social life is bars and parties, and now the thought of even doing anything else would require a complete revamp of confidence because it is all so alien to me, i would be terrifed to join a gym or anything because of that reason... And i would absolutely LOVE to be able to sit and have 6 cans and not have the fear that when they run out im going to be over the road buying more and more the next day :/

Hello zany90.

I suggest you Google and read AA's "The Doctors Opinion", "How It Works" and "The Promises of Alcoholics Anonymous".

I think I have bad news and good news for you.
Bad news. .. Life as you knew/wanted it is about to end.
Good news .. It will be replaced by a better one of you surrender to it and work for it.

All the best.

Bob R

I had a similar drinking pattern with yours. I would stay sober for months than go on benders. The "benders" seemed to get longer & longer. My experience with those medications is naltrexone helped a little. The other one didn't help at all. I also took antabuse & even drank on that ending up in the ER.

Zany:

A while back on this forum there was a thread on this topic which generated a lot of response:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ir-method.html

I'm having a difficult time trying to understand your motivations behind the Sinclair method...I can't tell if you are asking if it works, or if it will let you still go on those binges without drinking quite so much. In other words, giving you liberty to drink?

One thing that is important to keep in mind is that neither of these drugs can stop the intoxicating effects of alcohol, so that if you drink enough, even though you may not feel all of the pleasure effects of alcohol, you can still get drunk. Naltrexone can slightly increase the intoxicating effects of alcohol.

First, welcome to SR

>Abstinence vs Controlled?

If you have to control it, it's already out of control. I hope you read a bunch of posts while you are on the forum. Drinking like a normal person, living the social life of bars and such, is the vain wish of so many.

I found happiness being sober. I hope you can too.

Thanks for the replies... What i was hoping is not that i can go on "binges" and control it better but that i can drink the amount which gets me to my sweet spot which would be about 6-8 cans of beer, enjoy the effect and not worry that its going to turn into a binge. I dont like binge drinking i hate how i feel after hate the shame and embarassment of being over to buy more and more... But 8 cans or so is the best feeling ever, thats my "limit", i was hoping naltrexone would give me the ability to stop at my limit without a compulsion to buy more and go well beyond my limit and make a mess of myself for a few days... Ie, drink my beer or cider, stop, go to bed, wake up and have a normal day with no chaos or fried head that happens on day long binges

Zany:

Sorry to break it to you, but "Binge drinking, for U.S. men, is defined as having five or more drinks in a row; in women, as having four or more drinks in a row. Studies have shown that more than 35 percent of adults with an alcohol problem developed symptoms such as binge drinking by age 19. Long-term use risks liver damage, pancreatitis, certain cancers, and literal shrinkage of the brain, as stated by US Department of Health and Human Services."

So if your sweet spot is 6 to 8 beers, you are binge drinking.

Like I mentioned in a previous post, your BAC could be higher than usual on Naltrexone.

Sounds like you're looking to use the medications for all the wrong reasons. Dangerous to others and yourself.

well yeah i know that in the uk binge drinking is termed as 4 or 5 drinks on one occassion - but to be honest i do not know a single individual nor have i ever met one who goes out to a bar and drinks that or less, i live in ireland and even non alcoholics go out and get drunk - although they wake up the next day with a hangover and get on with it

im talking about binge drinking from an alcoholics point of view - to me a "binge" is a bender on drink out of control where waking up the next day the first thing on the mind instead of a paracetamol is another drink and that lasts all day, for a few DAYS - not 4 or 5 drinks one night in a blue moon thats not alcoholic drinking by any stretch of the imagination to me...

The sinclair method claims that naltrexone blocks the reward system in the brain affected by alcohol, so when an alcoholic drinks on naltrexone the rush of endorphins is blocked, thereby no reward, and no compulsion to drink more...

and by the way - my motivation would be - if i give in to the compulsion at times but was able to stick to the 6 or 8 beers, and was capable through the help of this medication to not loose control of that and go over that limit, and also have no "reward" out of it, then by nature the whole point in drinking the 6 or 8 beers would be nil, eliminating the behaviour entirely. instead of trying to white knuckle it with AA and trying to ignore the desire

Zany dude have you been picking my mind?
ur story is so like me only my rip lasts week to 10 days, then the tabs to sort me out.

Mate I know you don't wanna hear it but I doubt like me the only way is none my man.

I tried controlling it 100's times always same outcome,
sober for while ( 4 months longest) then say to self sure I'll take it easy, only weekends, no spirits etc bla bla, never works man always ends in big rip.

I was so depressed after blowing my 4 months this time, even when I was drinking I was not happy, I knew I was doing wrong, so I back sober now 3 weeks and made a big plan through AVRT that I will not drink again and never change my mind.

Does not matter if you don't know if your an alcoholic or problem drinker, if you deep down think that you mite have a problem then its time to do something about it.

As your on here and seen doc about booze then I think you may already know.

I know its hard living here with the all the pubs and the way drinking is such a big part of social life, but I've lived in England, US and Oz and there all the same, you want the booze u'll get it no matter where you live. But there are other ways to live life, much better ways as I'm finding out.

I hope you could give the gym another try, would get your mind of booze and help you feel better about urself.

Anyway I wish you well what ever road you take, but plz stick around this site as its a great place to learn and there is so many fantastic people here who have found way outa the rabbit hole.

Stay safe

Sean

thanks sean... yeah the fact is i know i am alcoholic to the core and i do keep in touch with AA etc - the sinclair method and naltrexone is my last resort before throwing the towel in for keeps

i have to admit i gave in and tried it, i just needed to know. after 50mg naltrexone today i bought a few beers just a while ago and poured one, and, well, while drinking it the only thing im enjoying about it is the "taste"... im not getting that "OH MY GOD MMMMM" feeling at all :/ yeah i know if i drank enough i could get drunk but i know from years of experience of this that this beer (which has now lasted in a glass for nearly half an hour where i wud normally just down it), is just not the "same" after the naltrexone

Its just a, well, nothingness - like a disappointing beer. but thats what im looking for :) disappointing nothingness type activity eventually becomes "f*** that whats the point in that its a waste of money"

This is only my personal experience drinking on naltrexone for the first time after reading about the sinclair method and i would not recommend this to anyone with a drinking problem, this is a risk i am taking of my own accord but do not want to influence anyone else...

i will post results as the night goes on and tomorrow because lets face it, its tomorrow or when the beer runs out (not lying: if i can be bothered finishing it before i sleep :c029:) that il know for sure

For the record... the problem i have with the AA doctors opinion, is that it was written by doctor silkworth in 1934 for gods sake. medical studies have moved on alot since 1934... although i am an AA member, i am willing to try a more up to date (1990's) scientifically proven method which has by my research been studied on four different continents in 72 different studies with a 78% success rate... i am an AA member but i wouldnt even mention this to an AA member because its AA or the highway with the majority

I am on both medications but am using them to supplement my sobriety. I would not even attempt another drink. As they say, I know I have another drink in me, I don't know if I have another recovery.
I know AA is not for everyone but...if you're working the program, you shouldn't/wouldn't be white knuckling it. I put a lot of work every day into staying sober. Right now, I feel happier and more at peace than in a long time. That only came when I realized that I could never drink again. Ever.
But that decision needs to be made by each individual. It took me a long time...I was almost in mourning for alcohol and for the changes I needed to make in my life. I resisted at every turn. I questioned, intellectualized, denied, tried to make deals with myself and others, and finally aquiesed.

I have met alot of great people in AA and relate to alot, my problem is that i dont want to spend the rest of my days going to meetings to talk about the crap that is my demon for the rest of my days - the reason i was tempted towards the sinclair method is that a retraining of the mind to be able to say no i have no desire to drink alcohol, the same as i have no desire to drink lilt, would be amazing without having to go to meetings all the time to "talk about it" .. im trying to move past alcohol, with AA personally to me it seems like even though not drinking, its still a life based around alcohol, even though not drinking it.

i would never stop talking to the ppl ive met but if this method works for me i would attend the occasional meeting and still talk to my AA friends on a regular basis but i just dont want to be one of these people who is addicted to AA as i am/was to alcohol.

like i say the sinclair method is my last resort before throwing the towel in and accepting that there is no other way but ive done alot of reading about it and it is proven to work in the majority, even myself, i know what an alcoholic drink feels like to an alcoholic being one myself, and this, well it just isnt that feeling...

could never explain this to a hardcore AA member though because it is a fellowship based on if you slip its all because you didnt conform to their ways yet it you beat it the fellowship takes all the credit

dream life - no drink, no binges, no hangovers or sprees or messes, and no meetings to have to talk about how it was and how it is today - NOTHING to do with alcohol, moving forward is what i want not sitting still thinking im moving forward because im in a chair sober for 1 day at a time talking about how much ive evolved as a human being. im sorry i dont mean to offend its just the stage im at in my own recovery, weighing up all my options

I never even heard of it b4, done a bit of reading on it there but oh I don't know,

It kinda got my hopes up that there was a magic pill or my beasts hopes I should say.

I hope it does work for you dude and it would be great to hear how you getting on with it,

but I think most on here would think the same that's its very hard to undo the problem once it starts, and the only way is abstinence with some kind of recovery plan.

Lol God what would problem drinkers not give to get back to where they where b4 it became a problem

When you say you bought a few beers, how many is that?

6... ive had 2 and HONESTLY i do not feel that "fk i need another crack it quick" feeling at all.. i feel that if i do drink the 6, it will be out of behavioural habbit rather than reward. its a very difficult thing to explain. its like, yes, i feel the effect of the alcohol, and i have a "habbit" of drinking everything there, but there is no "drive, compulsion" that URGGHHH feeling at all... its there, i can have it if i want it, but its not that usual feeling.
for an alcoholic like me, the first few drinks usually feels like ecstasy (before it all goes down hill), this time i feel the alcohol but its a "so what" feeling. very difficult to explain.

i can understand if its like this, why if you kept doing it and getting this "so what" it would change the behavioural/learned pattern into im not wasting my money on something that does nothing for me..

the effect of alcohol without the ultra pleasure an alcoholic like me gets is, well, indifferent

alcoholic zany90 - first 8 cans (which get beaten in at a worrying rate after the first few gulps) - goes to heaven, then god knows what will happen

alcoholic zany90 after 50mg naltrexone today - 2 beers, sitting here knowing its in the fridge but more interested in listening to music, feelin a bit underwhelmed by alcohol, can feel the slurryness but not the "oh this is great pour another" at all

There is scientific proof behind this "madness" (as percieved by centuries of the same school of thought)..

check wikipedia on "the sinclair method"

like i say i AM NOT promoting this, i would hate anyone to go wrong or be influenced.. if youre happy and content off it - stay well clear, but its something i just wanted to try out and for me it definitely does feel different

I've never used either of the drugs you are taking.
At one point I did try Antabuse ..drank on it...became so violently
ill...I stopped Antabuse in favor of 4 more months of active addiction.
I certainly don't recommend you follow that type of dangerous thinking...:no:

AA is about learning to live in the AA Steps...in that sense I
do it daily to improve my life ..it gives me purpose and joy...:yup:
It's not about the fellowshipping and meetings...tho I do those too.

If that is not of interest to you...please do find something else.
Lasting recovery is possible and there is no wrong way to
find it.

All my best as you find your way...:wavey: