My Friend is close to the end of the line.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Reading. Berks. England
Posts: 134
My Friend is close to the end of the line.
I'm not sure if anyone can give me any advice with this one, but i'll tell you what's going on.
I made a friend in AA just over 7 years ago, a highly educated man but with the most powerful denial i've ever come across. Over those years, my drinking has gone up and down, but i've managed some credible periods of sobriety and currently have several months. He however, has now lost everything, Wife, children, home, family, health, even his parents have detached, he has gone from a 6 bedroom family home, to living in a derelict council garage. I've tried to keep in touch to offer support, but like myself when drinking he is very evasive and runs away and hides all over the City.
I visited on Monday evening and found him in a really bad way, covered in sores and lice, beaten up, emaciated, still drinking and very confrontational. He eventually told me to go away and never come back.
I have no way of accommodating him, so I called social services, the local Hospital, and his Doctor (who happens to be mine as well), They all said that they've all had many 'dealings' with him in the past, didn't believe that he had any intention in stopping drinking, (probably true) and couldn't help. . . . .
What can I do ? He's going to die in that stinking garage I just know it. . . . There's just no safety net here for people like this.
I made a friend in AA just over 7 years ago, a highly educated man but with the most powerful denial i've ever come across. Over those years, my drinking has gone up and down, but i've managed some credible periods of sobriety and currently have several months. He however, has now lost everything, Wife, children, home, family, health, even his parents have detached, he has gone from a 6 bedroom family home, to living in a derelict council garage. I've tried to keep in touch to offer support, but like myself when drinking he is very evasive and runs away and hides all over the City.
I visited on Monday evening and found him in a really bad way, covered in sores and lice, beaten up, emaciated, still drinking and very confrontational. He eventually told me to go away and never come back.
I have no way of accommodating him, so I called social services, the local Hospital, and his Doctor (who happens to be mine as well), They all said that they've all had many 'dealings' with him in the past, didn't believe that he had any intention in stopping drinking, (probably true) and couldn't help. . . . .
What can I do ? He's going to die in that stinking garage I just know it. . . . There's just no safety net here for people like this.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 379
Hi Huey
I am so sorry to read this. The man is broken and obviously very ashamed at what he has become.
Do you know where his family are? They may have detached but have nod idea how bad things have got.
Perhaps drop him some new clothes, toiletries, skin cream. He may not be grateful, but will possibly use them.
You are a good friend, really good, and I understand how much it must hurt you to see him disintegrate like this.
Sorry I cannot offer more help.
Sunny xxx
I am so sorry to read this. The man is broken and obviously very ashamed at what he has become.
Do you know where his family are? They may have detached but have nod idea how bad things have got.
Perhaps drop him some new clothes, toiletries, skin cream. He may not be grateful, but will possibly use them.
You are a good friend, really good, and I understand how much it must hurt you to see him disintegrate like this.
Sorry I cannot offer more help.
Sunny xxx
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,378
I'm sorry for your friend Huey.
Some of us would rather live like that than face not drinking..I was very like that myself. I didn't want a safety net...I didn't want to change...I just wanted to be left alone....my addiction had me in a headlock.
He's very blessed to have a friend like you... but please remember - it would be great if we could love and care someone into recovery - but we can't make someone else well - it needs to be an internal job....he needs to accept his problem, and want to do something about it.
I had a moment of clarity and saved myself - I really hope he will too.
D
Some of us would rather live like that than face not drinking..I was very like that myself. I didn't want a safety net...I didn't want to change...I just wanted to be left alone....my addiction had me in a headlock.
He's very blessed to have a friend like you... but please remember - it would be great if we could love and care someone into recovery - but we can't make someone else well - it needs to be an internal job....he needs to accept his problem, and want to do something about it.
I had a moment of clarity and saved myself - I really hope he will too.
D
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
I had a friend like this. Always drunk and very volatile. There may not be much you can do… however here are a few things that might help.
You may need to keep your visits short so he can tolerate them.
Don’t believe his words when he tells you not to come back. He may not even remember he said this the next time you see him (or pretend he did not say it). You are likely one of the few visitors he has. As such, you are of great importance to him (though he is likely too proud to admit it).
Choose your words very carefully for he is incredibly vulnerable. Say little. Remember that what you do say will stay with him (even if it remains subconscious due to his alcohol consumption).
Complement him. He will take some measure of self-respect from genuine praise. He needs this desperately now.
Don’t be surprised if he one day breaks down and tells you he is ready to get help.
If he does this, have a plan in place. Get his consent to act on the plan, and act quickly.
Huey, your concern for him speaks volumes about you.
You may need to keep your visits short so he can tolerate them.
Don’t believe his words when he tells you not to come back. He may not even remember he said this the next time you see him (or pretend he did not say it). You are likely one of the few visitors he has. As such, you are of great importance to him (though he is likely too proud to admit it).
Choose your words very carefully for he is incredibly vulnerable. Say little. Remember that what you do say will stay with him (even if it remains subconscious due to his alcohol consumption).
Complement him. He will take some measure of self-respect from genuine praise. He needs this desperately now.
Don’t be surprised if he one day breaks down and tells you he is ready to get help.
If he does this, have a plan in place. Get his consent to act on the plan, and act quickly.
Huey, your concern for him speaks volumes about you.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
there are some suggestions in the chapter "working with others" that i have found to be very useful.
i have found through my own personal experience that if a person tells me to stay away and i keep contacting them, i am pushing them further away. you can keep pushing youself on him and love him to death or you can walk walk away, leave it in Gods hands, and if he decides he wants help, then love him to life.
i have found through my own personal experience that if a person tells me to stay away and i keep contacting them, i am pushing them further away. you can keep pushing youself on him and love him to death or you can walk walk away, leave it in Gods hands, and if he decides he wants help, then love him to life.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Reading. Berks. England
Posts: 134
Thanks everyone for the words of wisdom. I can't totally abandon this man, i'm just going to do the best practical things that I can. Leave him my number again and let him know i'm there if he needs to talk or to get to support services. I know myself what a big turn off preaching is, I think care and compassion are the best way forward, and prayer of course.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada. About as far south as you can get
Posts: 4,768
Alcoholics Anonymous - How it works
RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now. If you have decided that you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it - then you are ready to take certain steps.
At some of these we balked. We thought that we could find an easier, softer way. But we could not. With all earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.
Remember that we deal with alcohol - cunning, baffling, powerful! Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power - that One is God. May you find him now.
Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. We asked His protection and care with complete abandon.
Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery:
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
Many of us exclaimed, "What an order! I can't go through with it." Do not be discouraged. No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints. The point is, that we were willing to grow along spiritual lines. The principles we have set down are guides to progress. We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection.
Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:
(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.
(c) That God could and would if He were sought.
How it works - Chapter 5, page 58-60 of the Book,
Alcoholics Anonymous
© Alcoholics Anonymous
RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.
Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now. If you have decided that you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it - then you are ready to take certain steps.
At some of these we balked. We thought that we could find an easier, softer way. But we could not. With all earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.
Remember that we deal with alcohol - cunning, baffling, powerful! Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power - that One is God. May you find him now.
Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. We asked His protection and care with complete abandon.
Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery:
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
Many of us exclaimed, "What an order! I can't go through with it." Do not be discouraged. No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints. The point is, that we were willing to grow along spiritual lines. The principles we have set down are guides to progress. We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection.
Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:
(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.
(c) That God could and would if He were sought.
How it works - Chapter 5, page 58-60 of the Book,
Alcoholics Anonymous
© Alcoholics Anonymous
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
I too have often had a front row seat to the end of anothers life.
Prayers for your friend ..it's so sad to watch others lose
their life due to alcohol.
Yes leave your number perhaps he will come to use it.
Prayers for your friend ..it's so sad to watch others lose
their life due to alcohol.
Yes leave your number perhaps he will come to use it.
I looked like that holdin beer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 627
This really makes me sad, because that is how my pop died. He lost everything, and was living in a garage in back of this guys run down trailer drinking himself to death. He was filthy, emaciated, and also had sores on him. He did die when I was 18. What I did was bring him food cigarettes, clothes, fresh bedding,and I would try to tidy up the garage. He had old pictures of our family all over the garage walls. He would beg me to stay, but I could never stay long, because it hurt too much. One day I came over and he was on the floor dead, an empty shell, but at least finally free. I hope your friend has a moment of clarity; I know for my pop his brain was so mush in the end, that I don't think he was capable.
Member of SMART Recovery
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,722
The reality is that, for whatever reason, sometimes people with addictions can't/don't/won't stop. I'm sure we all have our opinions about why that is, but regardless of the reason, it happens. Which is why I'm a strong believer in so-called "wet" housing--at least, people should have a safe place to live. Nobody should be dying on the streets.
I wonder if such housing is available in your area, Huey. It would be worth looking into.
I wonder if such housing is available in your area, Huey. It would be worth looking into.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Maine
Posts: 13
Hi Huey. I have a friend from childhood that is in the same boat. I am only 5 weeks sober myself, so I'm trying to set an example for him, but his attitude is WAY different than mine. I finally after 30 years decided I want it out of my life. He doesn't care to stop. It seems like he's actually hoping he won't wake up one morning. Sort of giving up already, and he's only 45.
At this point, all I can do is help him run his errands every week when he gets his check, and I'm taking him out weekly to get some exercise by hiking on local bike trails, and also trying to help him improve his diet.
It sucks watching a friend go so far downhill, but I was well on my way until just recently. He needs to want to change things before anything can improve.
At this point, all I can do is help him run his errands every week when he gets his check, and I'm taking him out weekly to get some exercise by hiking on local bike trails, and also trying to help him improve his diet.
It sucks watching a friend go so far downhill, but I was well on my way until just recently. He needs to want to change things before anything can improve.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada. About as far south as you can get
Posts: 4,768
Originally Posted by Ginzo45 
Hi Huey. I have a friend from childhood that is in the same boat. I am only 5 weeks sober myself, so I'm trying to set an example for him, but his attitude is WAY different than mine. I finally after 30 years decided I want it out of my life. He doesn't care to stop. It seems like he's actually hoping he won't wake up one morning. Sort of giving up already, and he's only 45.
At this point, all I can do is help him run his errands every week when he gets his check, and I'm taking him out weekly to get some exercise by hiking on local bike trails, and also trying to help him improve his diet.
It sucks watching a friend go so far downhill, but I was well on my way until just recently. He needs to want to change things before anything can improve.
At this point, all I can do is help him run his errands every week when he gets his check, and I'm taking him out weekly to get some exercise by hiking on local bike trails, and also trying to help him improve his diet.
It sucks watching a friend go so far downhill, but I was well on my way until just recently. He needs to want to change things before anything can improve.
All the best.
Bob R
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,902
Huey,thanks for the sharing and caring
we all need friends like you
I would say pray for him and if you wish,take him something to eat occasionally and a change of clean clothes every now and then and leave them with him.
maybe it will help him somehow on a humanitarian perspective.No one needs to live or die in that condition.
we all need friends like you
I would say pray for him and if you wish,take him something to eat occasionally and a change of clean clothes every now and then and leave them with him.
maybe it will help him somehow on a humanitarian perspective.No one needs to live or die in that condition.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,981
Unfortunately for many people the alcohol completely consumes your soul so much there is absoutly nothing else in the world that matters but the alcohol.
Not living in the gutter, not being completely alone, nothing,...
All you can do is offer your support and hope one day he finally decides to fight back against the demon, but far too often many people at this phase of alcoholism never stop until they are dead.
Not living in the gutter, not being completely alone, nothing,...
All you can do is offer your support and hope one day he finally decides to fight back against the demon, but far too often many people at this phase of alcoholism never stop until they are dead.
SoberOutlook
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,089
This is just a zany idea, but maybe you could take him a picture of him in his hay days, and ask him if he wants that person back. If he has the slightest interest, facilitate a 12th step call immediately, find him a dignified place to stay, and be there for him constantly. You can't push it down his throat, but you might be able to make him want it. And, you can cry with him, and laugh with him.
Another idea is to ask the local shelters which groups/churches send folks around to volunteer time with folks.
If you read the big book there are many stories like his that you shared. He could probably use a copy of the AA Big Book. As an educated man, he should be able to understand what its about, and can read the stories on his time.
Another idea is to ask the local shelters which groups/churches send folks around to volunteer time with folks.
If you read the big book there are many stories like his that you shared. He could probably use a copy of the AA Big Book. As an educated man, he should be able to understand what its about, and can read the stories on his time.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Reading. Berks. England
Posts: 134
Unfortunately, my friend now has a complete aversion to AA, I sort of understand why, our local intergroup has a Nationally bad reputation for being anti-meds, and turning the 'blind eye' so to speak, amongst a few other unsavoury incidents, some of which he was witness, and or privy to. . . But I try to encourage him to start attending meetings, he needs any, and all the help he can get.
I spent two hours on the street tonight trying to find him, unfortunately to no avail.
I spent two hours on the street tonight trying to find him, unfortunately to no avail.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sussex, England
Posts: 945
I don't personally agree with the anti-meds part. And although I'm not AA, I think it has been helpful to people who are willing to embrace it.
Huey, I really think you could help your friend. Even if he doesn't say he wants you to, I think deep down, he does. I know I would, but pride would be a bit of a facter. The idea of just dropping off clothes and toiletries is really great and thoughtful.
I know If I had a friend in need, I would try to help. I suppose I have experience in that field! Good luck to you x
Huey, I really think you could help your friend. Even if he doesn't say he wants you to, I think deep down, he does. I know I would, but pride would be a bit of a facter. The idea of just dropping off clothes and toiletries is really great and thoughtful.
I know If I had a friend in need, I would try to help. I suppose I have experience in that field! Good luck to you x
SoberOutlook
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,089
I know my path would have been much different without antidepressants when I quit. I didn't like the meds, but once I quit drinking they started working and I was off them in a matter of months. Its ashame that AA intergroups can deviate so far from what the big book says on the matter.
Member of SMART Recovery
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,722
Originally Posted by Huey
Unfortunately, my friend now has a complete aversion to AA, I sort of understand why, our local intergroup has a Nationally bad reputation for being anti-meds, and turning the 'blind eye' so to speak, amongst a few other unsavoury incidents, some of which he was witness, and or privy to. . . But I try to encourage him to start attending meetings, he needs any, and all the help he can get.
I spent two hours on the street tonight trying to find him, unfortunately to no avail.
I spent two hours on the street tonight trying to find him, unfortunately to no avail.
I did have a thought...Perhaps you would get further with him if you did not attempt to convince him to go to AA when he has an aversion to it-- particularly when it seems he has a valid experiential reason for feeling as he does.
If he is interested at all in getting help, there are so many things available now besides AA. Have you tried to hook him up with any of those resources?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Bridgeton
Posts: 718
You are a good person Huey. You are doing what you can do within your power. Don't get discouraged if he doesn't accept your help...you can only do so much. Stories like this remind me what could have been if I did not change the course of my life through recovery & AA. Praying for you & your friend. He is blessed to have you in his life--maybe he will soon realize that.
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