Sunny27

I seem to have stayed at stage two for many, many years.

MetalChick

Me too, I saw too much of myself in the information. It is scary.

foodie1

Me too, and the lack of real "evidence" kept me a practicing alcoholic for those many years. I knew I drank "too much" but I had a job, a good relationship, bills were paid. Only now through sober eyes can I see how half-a$$ed I did everything.

The "evidence" was starting to come to light slowly, I was just in too much denial. My hands were shaky in the morning because my blood sugar was low. I was tired because I didn't sleep well. My stomach was a mess because I had acid reflux. I started buying boxed wine because it was better for the environment than all those bottles. It's amazing what we tell ourselves.

Thanks for this thread, it's helpful to remember we're all in the same boat and it doesn't matter how we got here.

MetalChick

Foodie

"I started buying boxed wine because it was better for the environment than all those bottles. It's amazing what we tell ourselves."

You had me crackin' up on that one! Ah yes, the BS we tell ourselves!

Ranger

I'll never forget this story from my early days on SR...

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post2960254

KnowHope

Hi lovely Aeo! As I know you're in AA, I would suggest that AA's definitions for alcoholism, or alternatively moderate or hard drinking, can show you exactly what you would need to know to diagnose yourself either way and to treat it accordingly. Your sponsor should be able to direct you to this information in the Big Book from the Doctor's Opinion through to page 43 in More About Alcoholism. The chapter that follows has a very good sentence in the first paragraph that helps to identify alcoholism in a very concise package:
By that definition, daily drinking has nothing to do with it. There are plenty of binge drinkers in the rooms as well. It's basically down to 1) whether I have an abnormal physical reaction to alcohol, whereby when I put alcohol into my body it triggers the phenomenon of craving and I lose control over the amount I take, which is never the case in non-alcoholics, and/or 2) if I am unable to stay stopped based on my own power due to the abnormal mental components of alcoholism, as in the mental obsession or strange mental blank spots, which non-alcoholics never suffer from either.

You said that you were addicted to pills, and that you were encouraged to practice total abstinence. I don't know anything about your history, but some people are addicts without being alcoholics. I am an addict, although I also happen to qualify as a real alcoholic, and I am absolutely convinced that addicts must abstain from all drugs in order to recover (alcohol of course also being a drug).

I worked in the treatment field in research and development, and the number of (often contradictory) definitions out there for both alcoholism and drug addiction is astounding. Personally, I have never found definitions and characteristics that are better than those supplied within the BB of AA and the BT of NA.

No matter what your situation, I hope that you find the answers that you're looking for, which would include a full knowledge of your condition if you're an alcoholic or an addict, or both, or neither, so that whatever you do treats it appropriately. No point in attacking a feather with a samurai sword, or an armored knight with a chocolate fudge sundae. If there's anything I can do to help no matter what, I would be glad to do so.




Big Book quotes from the 1st edition

aeo1313

I guess in the end I don't care. The skills I am learning in AA to cope with life are amazing. I just got in a car accident with a Mack truck the other day and didn't freak out or get upset. I was able to deal with it calmly (no one was hurt). Physically and mentally since I have quit drinking and using I have never felt better. I guess the smart thing would just be to keep doing what I'm doing and forget labels.

freshstart57

The first sentence is true.

KnowHope

Maybe, as it says in the Forward to the First Edition, we think that our way of living has its advantages for all, but it would have everything to do with the first step, whether or not you're powerless over alcohol and your life is unmanageable. My experience is that an experience with this step is the necessary foundation for working all the other steps. I would also think it wise to know if I have a progressive, frequently fatal illness or not (progressive, in my experience, even sober), even if my life is better without me drinking. I realize you are in the beginning of your sober journey, and I think you're doing great. I remember when I went to AA I tried to find out what an alcoholic is through others in meetings, and it took a year for me to find an alcoholic that could show me exactly what it says about alcoholism in the book. Your sponsor should be able to help you qualify yourself through the BB. If they can't, I would be happy to help, and you can think about it and decide for yourself, entirely up to you. Just my 2 cents, take it or leave it. I'm very sorry to hear about your accident, but thank goodness you're okay! It's also great to hear that the program has been helping you so much already - what a gift. I'm glad you're on the boards. My very best wishes in every way.

RaiseAnchor

I would binge drink, I always drank heavy right from the beginning. I knew that I was deteriorating, and I wanted to quit. So, I found myself in this perpetual cycle of quitting. Each time I would quit though I would try to have some sort of overnight renewal of myself in all directions of life. I finally realized that while I should take care of myself as best I can, abstaining from alcohol was the primary objective that I needed to put all that I could muster toward.

One day it just continued, the abstinence that is. But I didn't do it on my own. I still see a counselor, and I'm thinking of moving into group-work. It's taken awhile for me to get into that comfort zone, but what I learned is the more honest I am to others about my alcoholism,(without wearing it on my sleeve) the more that I am honest with myself about it.

I may not have ever gotten to stage four, but I was certainly in the stage three range by these definitions.

MetalChick

Knowinghope,

"I worked in the treatment field in research and development, and the number of (often contradictory) definitions out there for both alcoholism and drug addiction is astounding. Personally, I have never found definitions and characteristics that are better than those supplied within the BB of AA and the BT of NA."

I think it is great that there are definitions wherein we can relate, which ultimately help people to get out of denial whatever the source

I know I got caught up on whether I was a problem drinker, hard drinker, alcoholic, etc... Anything but an alcoholic! Denial ran deep.

MetalChick

WOW, that is scary! I don't think I will forget that one as well. I hope that the post prevents or helps others from making dangerous choices like that.

I know for me, reading some of the stories in here was what kicked me out of denial.

Thanks for sharing

drtreg

One of the simplest definitions is if I lose something due to alcohol. The first loss is often self. It starts to change my ideas.

Another definition is that I am addicted to using alcohol even though it doesnt help me anymore.

Obviously these occur at the later stages of using.

The whole picture the way I see it is as follows:

FAMILY HISTORY

Family history of alcoholism and/or drug-addiction or other form of dependency.


TRAGIC EVENT OR SERIOUS ABUSE

Resulting in chronic fear.



BEFORE USE

The sense of feeling "different" and having difficulty forming intimate relationships.

The sense of feeling older or younger than chronological age.

The sense of time passing slowly or quickly.

The sense of being a complete failure or complete perfectionist.

Hypersensitivity in association with extreme ideas, thoughts and feelings with resulting behavioural and physical changes.


USE

Excessive response of the above to the initial or early use of alcohol and/or drugs.

Continuing hypersensitivity to the effects of alcohol and/or drugs combined with increasing obsession-compulsion to use alcohol and/or drugs. Initial improvement in fear is eventually followed by deterioration in fear.

Progressive losses eventually developing following the introduction of alcohol and/or drugs.

CarolD

drtreg...Welcome ..
I hope your recovery is moving forward ..

Boo92

I don't seem to fit into any of these stages either, but instead have certain traits from each stage all mixed together.

I don't think I am an alcoholic but I think my drinking is affecting my life and surely that's reason enough in itself to stop?

sugarbear1

Boo, what made you come to Sober Recovery?

onlythetruth

Dee is right. There is no model that accurately captures everyone's alcoholism, just as there's no universal recovery philosophy.

It would be so great if there WERE a bright-line set of characteristics that work for everyone...seems like it would be easier. But since there isn't, my feeling is that it's better to simply consider the affect of alcohol on one's life rather than whether the "alcoholic" label applies.

onlythetruth

Of course it's reason enough to stop. Pain is pain, no matter what label you put on it!

cmason249

I find that, other than the guilt, I don't really fall into any of those categories. Guilt is enough, for me at least, to know that I have a problem. I start off drinking for no other reason than to be social. I can stop after one or two if I choose to. It's after I'm buzzed that the monster inside me makes itself known. My problem is this: I drink to socialize. If the people I am socializing with continue to drink, so do I.

Wait. What? Did I just really write that? Hello AV. It's not my fault right? It CAN'T be my fault.

Personal choice... makes it seem so easy. It IS easy for me as long as I am consciously aware of what I am doing. Too often, however, I'm flying on autopilot.

RobbyRobot

Drinking to socialize really shouldn't end up with you getting in over your head, since you say you can stop after one or two.

I think you giving up your responsibility to situations controlled by others ie if they continue to drink so do you - is not really the heart of the problem which takes you into problem drinking, its merely an easy excuse, imo.

Justifying fault, guilt, or whatever else when it comes to uncontrolled drinking is not a helpful experience to understand causation, imo.

I think you're too little to late when you subscribe that the monster only comes to light after you're buzzed. I understand what you mean here, i've done it myself, but in hindsight i now know that my troubles started way before I got a buzz going on...

I see from another post you have recently had a drink or two, and you regret having had those drinks. You say you were using AVRT.

What do you think caused a return to drinking, if only even for a day? Did you have a Big Plan in place?

I hope things are going better for you today!