Dalek

Rational Recovery long ago identified the sinking "life sucks" attitude quite common to newly-abstinent people as Beast-induced depression with a purpose. RR calls it the addicto-depressive condition, and no doubt AA members would call it a dry drunk, a symptom of failing to fill that "dark hole" in the soul, or of separation from GAYUH ("God as you understand him").

It's interesting that there hasn't been much discussion of the addicto-depressive condition on the AVRT thread, though. I have experienced this Beast ploy myself, long after the normal withdrawal period passed, so perhaps I will post about it. It is interpreted a little differently than in AA, and some discussion on it might be worthwhile.

RobbyRobot

Hey. Awesome on your two years.

So, since she is not drinking, you and her have more than half the battle won, yeah!

My experiences, when living with and loving persons who won't change for the better, is too support, support, support. They are already feeling bad enough, and I have empathy for people feeling bad, we all do, I'm sure.

I can offer you hope in that loving someone who is struggling is a wonderful experience for all involved. When we turn our faces away from those who struggle, and while we profess to love them, we do a great dis-service to the relationship, and too much of a bad thing can ruin even the best relationships, yeah?

If she is experiencing being dry drunk, then simply helping her to realize that change is required for life to get better, and that those changes can be simple baby steps, simple dialogs and interactions with others, simple changes in behaviors and practices...

Since she is not drinking, that is a great starting place to build a new life, not by fighting and bickering, but by working closely together ensuring that both you and her have listened and shared with each other various solutions to your combined challenges.

i wish you both all the best.

FredG

Kanamit - I think we all understand that you've got a REAL hate on for AA from this and other posts, but please stop slamming something you 'appear' to know nothing about. You are entitled to your opinion, but AA has worked for millions and is in every country in the world.

AA is not the only way to get sobriety, but it's definitely worked for me and it's my considered opinion that AA is NOT and NEVER will be a cult. AA is a group of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other so that they can help each other and others to get and stay sober.

If it didn't or doesn't work for you fine. But don't try to kill the chance that it will work for someone else

Dalek

Would it be correct then to conclude from your post that simply not drinking, without any revolution of the psyche, would, to you, constitute a dry drunk?

RobbyRobot

Interesting question, Dalek.

Simply not drinking, and not having a psychic revolution, is not enough to bring about a dry drunk experience. Alcoholism illness, or at least an alcoholic mind being present and sentient, would also be required to bring about a dry drunk experience for me, respectively. The sober natural mind would be required to be subserviant to the alcoholic mind, and this disturbing array would set up the possibilities of experiencing a dry drunk.

Normal persons ie not alcoholic as defined by AA, who simply quit, do not experience a dry drunk, imo. Normals can quit, successfully, without requiring a psychic revolution. Such a revolution needs to be founded on a natural need to radically change, and not simply used as a better mouse-trap to achieve a non-drinking lifestyle.

Does that help?

Dalek

It does, and I can certainly follow the "alcoholic mind" vs "sober mind" dichotomy. We differ in that I do not attribute to the alcoholic mind any thinking that is not directed towards the goal of getting that next drink.

What you wrote above is very interesting, and somewhat refreshing. It is not the usual tune, which I gather you know, judging from the way you chose to phrase it. Hopefully it will catch on.

NYCDoglvr

It doesn't matter whether she's an dry drunk or an alcoholic. The point is being in her presence is hurtful to your sobriety. Emotional well being is as important in recovery as physical well being. For this reason I suggest making a change as quickly as possible. You say you love her, but you must love yourself more.

RobbyRobot

Awesome. Thanks.

Yeah, not the usual. I'm glad it was refreshing. Open minds are such wonderful tools in all efforts bringing to light for others what is often so subjective to ourselves, such as dry drunk experiences. All to often, people choose to personify being dry drunk as a personal trait, or defect, or choice, projected onto some unfortunate person, even though dry drunk is yet just another experience, imo, of alcoholism and sobriety.

When people say -- "He's a dry drunk. Always has been." or "She's such a fool. Just another dry drunk." -- they think it is only the insulting words that are the problem in their word choices, and they miss entirely that calling someone a dry drunk is in itself just flat out wrong, not because its also insulting, but because it is pure projection of a twisted mis-understanding of subjective experiences.

We are, of course, changed by our experiences, and yet, our whole selves are more then the sum of our experiences. We see ourselves through a somewhat darkend glass, and those who think they see everything in wonderful clarity, are the same ones who see with the least enlightenment, yeah?

I appreciate your noting of how we differ in understanding the alcoholic mind. Well done.

KissMyTiara

I don't believe in the term dry drunk. It's something AA's use. In my opinion you don't drink and you are sober. Works for me.