The diet trigger connection
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ct
Posts: 55
The diet trigger connection
Ok a new year and a new resolve....for the 100th time i will try again to get sober.I can't count the number of attempts i've made
but enough to know i need to do things different.One observation i've made is that salty foods for me are often a trigger
making me have the desire to drink.i've found that alcohol tends to help break up the food and help digest it better, i would often use it as an excuse to drink.i think i would like to try and really clean up my diet and eat a lot of fruits and veggies,yogurt...... maybe even a juice fast for a few days to clean out the system.
It's my experience that when i eat a lot of"junk food"i find my body desensitized and a sloppy attitude creeps in opening the door for alcohol abuse...because i don't care what i put in my body during those periods.but with a very clean diet i find it has just the opposite effect...also it prepares the ground for more of a spiritual approach to life.so we try again
but enough to know i need to do things different.One observation i've made is that salty foods for me are often a trigger
making me have the desire to drink.i've found that alcohol tends to help break up the food and help digest it better, i would often use it as an excuse to drink.i think i would like to try and really clean up my diet and eat a lot of fruits and veggies,yogurt...... maybe even a juice fast for a few days to clean out the system.
It's my experience that when i eat a lot of"junk food"i find my body desensitized and a sloppy attitude creeps in opening the door for alcohol abuse...because i don't care what i put in my body during those periods.but with a very clean diet i find it has just the opposite effect...also it prepares the ground for more of a spiritual approach to life.so we try again
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Milan Italy
Posts: 47
I can't count all the attempts I have made too. If food is a trigger for you it's a very good idea to change diet. A clean diet always helps even if you don't have to get sober. Nice to see that you are trying again.
Wish all the best for the new year
Love
:redrose
Irene
Wish all the best for the new year
Love
:redrose
Irene
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 141
Hi Kindablue, if you are looking to diet as a trigger you may want to check out some sites on Hypoglycemia. I have a diagnosed case of that and after a 100 attempts to quit I found that things like too much coffee, cola and sweets were setting me up for a drink so bad that stopping was intolerable. Lots of the sites I went to were riddled with info on the relationship between low blood sugar and alcoholism. I've only been sober for a few days now, but paying even the slightest attention to eating a healthier diet has made it a lot easier to go without beer. In any case it can't hurt for you to check out a few sites. Hope this helps you.
Wiebe
Wiebe
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: at the computer
Posts: 121
Good Job Wiebe!
Hi Kindablue,
The diet trigger is a big one for me too. I've been advised to stay away from lots of caffeine and sugar. Those aren't a huge problem for me, but starchy and salty foods do it. I'm looking into meeting with a nutritionist or dietitian - hopefully someone who is familiar with nutrition and alcholism/recovery. I know when I am eating healthy, I kind of get obsessed (another alcoholic trait, mind you) with being healthy. I exercise more, and drink less because I don't want all those extra calories. Well, now I'm going to the "no drinking at all" while eating healthy. If you are worried about liver problems or hypoglycemia, meet with your doctor though, because the recommended diets for both problems are almost completely opposite! (hypoglycemia recommends low-carbs - not atkins though ; and alcoholic liver problems like cirrhosis recommends high carb diet, and low protein).
For now, eating a well-balanced moderate diet is probably the best thing you can do. But, as always, check with your Dr if you are concerned about dignificant health problems.
Hi Kindablue,
The diet trigger is a big one for me too. I've been advised to stay away from lots of caffeine and sugar. Those aren't a huge problem for me, but starchy and salty foods do it. I'm looking into meeting with a nutritionist or dietitian - hopefully someone who is familiar with nutrition and alcholism/recovery. I know when I am eating healthy, I kind of get obsessed (another alcoholic trait, mind you) with being healthy. I exercise more, and drink less because I don't want all those extra calories. Well, now I'm going to the "no drinking at all" while eating healthy. If you are worried about liver problems or hypoglycemia, meet with your doctor though, because the recommended diets for both problems are almost completely opposite! (hypoglycemia recommends low-carbs - not atkins though ; and alcoholic liver problems like cirrhosis recommends high carb diet, and low protein).
For now, eating a well-balanced moderate diet is probably the best thing you can do. But, as always, check with your Dr if you are concerned about dignificant health problems.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
I've learned that it doesn't matter who I'm with, where I'm at, what I say, or what I eat or don't eat, if I don't want to drink....I won't.
Until I reached the point of being sick and tired of being sick and tired, I had no reason to stop drinking.
Until I reached the point of being sick and tired of being sick and tired, I had no reason to stop drinking.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ct
Posts: 55
Originally posted by Music
I've learned that it doesn't matter who I'm with, where I'm at, what I say, or what I eat or don't eat, if I don't want to drink....I won't.
Until I reached the point of being sick and tired of being sick and tired, I had no reason to stop drinking.
I've learned that it doesn't matter who I'm with, where I'm at, what I say, or what I eat or don't eat, if I don't want to drink....I won't.
Until I reached the point of being sick and tired of being sick and tired, I had no reason to stop drinking.
i've been sick and tired of being an alcoholic for a long time now.
However that hasn't been enough to keep sober.Everyone is different and psychologically complex,there is wisdom in keeping it simple, but for those of us who are chronic relapsers it often takes taking a very deep look at ourselves and our patterns to understand why we can't seem to stay sober.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 27
Someone mentioned that they used digestion as an excuse to drink. I did the same thing when I was drinking. When I really wanted to drink a lot, I would just use the excuse that I needed to get my system cleaned out.... 
Since I've stopped drinking, I've used my addictive tendencies to my advantage--I've made myself become addicted to being healthy instead! Now I don't want to drink because of how bad I know it makes me feel! I don't know if I went a little off-topic...sorry!
Since I've stopped drinking, I've used my addictive tendencies to my advantage--I've made myself become addicted to being healthy instead! Now I don't want to drink because of how bad I know it makes me feel! I don't know if I went a little off-topic...sorry!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Blue,
There's no such thing as a chronic relapser. In order for someone to relapse, there must be, by definition, some time of recovery.
There are chronic alcoholics who refuse to accept the fact that it's just as simple as doing whatever it takes to not drink. People who drink after any length of time sober, obviously didn't take the steps necessary to not take that first drink. Maybe these folks like the attention they get when they come back and tell their stories. They feed on the sympathy and compassion they receive as a result of going back out.
There's a sentence on the bottom of page 25 in the Big Book that spells out our choices; two of them. It's just that simple.
I know people who are obsessed with being complicated. They just don't believe that getting sober can be as easy as just not drinking. They're unique! They're more intelligent than the normal run-of-the-mill drunk who comes to AA meetings. Simplicity is fine for those who can settle for it but in their cases, it has to be more complicated.
Some decide to get simple, some don't. I'm glad I was one of the simple ones who had no agenda other than to escape the way of life I'd been living up to the day I went to my first meeting.
There's no such thing as a chronic relapser. In order for someone to relapse, there must be, by definition, some time of recovery.
There are chronic alcoholics who refuse to accept the fact that it's just as simple as doing whatever it takes to not drink. People who drink after any length of time sober, obviously didn't take the steps necessary to not take that first drink. Maybe these folks like the attention they get when they come back and tell their stories. They feed on the sympathy and compassion they receive as a result of going back out.
There's a sentence on the bottom of page 25 in the Big Book that spells out our choices; two of them. It's just that simple.
I know people who are obsessed with being complicated. They just don't believe that getting sober can be as easy as just not drinking. They're unique! They're more intelligent than the normal run-of-the-mill drunk who comes to AA meetings. Simplicity is fine for those who can settle for it but in their cases, it has to be more complicated.
Some decide to get simple, some don't. I'm glad I was one of the simple ones who had no agenda other than to escape the way of life I'd been living up to the day I went to my first meeting.
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: at the computer
Posts: 121
[ They just don't believe that getting sober can be as easy as just not drinking. They're unique! They're more intelligent than the normal run-of-the-mill drunk who comes to AA meetings. Simplicity is fine for those who can settle for it but in their cases, it has to be more complicated.... I'm glad I was one of the simple ones
Jay
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: canada
Posts: 4
The Health Recovery Center in Minnisota bases it's treatment of addictions partly on dietary considerations. The treatment is explained in 'Seven Weeks to Sobriety' by Joan Larson and there's also some information at their website http://www.healthrecovery.com/
One of the things I found impressive when reading that book is that they distinguish in detail between different forms of addiction as well as triggers, instead of just asking the usual 'are you an addict or alcoholic'.
They are said to have a very high success rate in longterm recovery, compared to programs that treat alcohol or drug problems purely as a psychological issue or one of 'character defects'
One of the things I found impressive when reading that book is that they distinguish in detail between different forms of addiction as well as triggers, instead of just asking the usual 'are you an addict or alcoholic'.
They are said to have a very high success rate in longterm recovery, compared to programs that treat alcohol or drug problems purely as a psychological issue or one of 'character defects'
Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 93
Originally posted by Music
Blue,
There's no such thing as a chronic relapser. In order for someone to relapse, there must be, by definition, some time of recovery.
There are chronic alcoholics who refuse to accept the fact that it's just as simple as doing whatever it takes to not drink. People who drink after any length of time sober, obviously didn't take the steps necessary to not take that first drink. Maybe these folks like the attention they get when they come back and tell their stories. They feed on the sympathy and compassion they receive as a result of going back out.
There's a sentence on the bottom of page 25 in the Big Book that spells out our choices; two of them. It's just that simple.
I know people who are obsessed with being complicated. They just don't believe that getting sober can be as easy as just not drinking. They're unique! They're more intelligent than the normal run-of-the-mill drunk who comes to AA meetings. Simplicity is fine for those who can settle for it but in their cases, it has to be more complicated.
Some decide to get simple, some don't. I'm glad I was one of the simple ones who had no agenda other than to escape the way of life I'd been living up to the day I went to my first meeting.
Blue,
There's no such thing as a chronic relapser. In order for someone to relapse, there must be, by definition, some time of recovery.
There are chronic alcoholics who refuse to accept the fact that it's just as simple as doing whatever it takes to not drink. People who drink after any length of time sober, obviously didn't take the steps necessary to not take that first drink. Maybe these folks like the attention they get when they come back and tell their stories. They feed on the sympathy and compassion they receive as a result of going back out.
There's a sentence on the bottom of page 25 in the Big Book that spells out our choices; two of them. It's just that simple.
I know people who are obsessed with being complicated. They just don't believe that getting sober can be as easy as just not drinking. They're unique! They're more intelligent than the normal run-of-the-mill drunk who comes to AA meetings. Simplicity is fine for those who can settle for it but in their cases, it has to be more complicated.
Some decide to get simple, some don't. I'm glad I was one of the simple ones who had no agenda other than to escape the way of life I'd been living up to the day I went to my first meeting.
Hey, why the angst?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Originally posted by sobertech
The Health Recovery Center in Minnisota bases it's treatment of addictions partly on dietary considerations. The treatment is explained in 'Seven Weeks to Sobriety' by Joan Larson and there's also some information at their website http://www.healthrecovery.com/
One of the things I found impressive when reading that book is that they distinguish in detail between different forms of addiction as well as triggers, instead of just asking the usual 'are you an addict or alcoholic'.
They are said to have a very high success rate in longterm recovery, compared to programs that treat alcohol or drug problems purely as a psychological issue or one of 'character defects'
The Health Recovery Center in Minnisota bases it's treatment of addictions partly on dietary considerations. The treatment is explained in 'Seven Weeks to Sobriety' by Joan Larson and there's also some information at their website http://www.healthrecovery.com/
One of the things I found impressive when reading that book is that they distinguish in detail between different forms of addiction as well as triggers, instead of just asking the usual 'are you an addict or alcoholic'.
They are said to have a very high success rate in longterm recovery, compared to programs that treat alcohol or drug problems purely as a psychological issue or one of 'character defects'
Most people who drink or do drugs for any length of time don't eat properly....that's a no-brainer. But to say that eating something will cause a person to drink is just plain nuts. Going to meetings, getting a sponsor and working the steps works best for the most. I know of few instituions that have been around as long as AA. I know of no recognized book(save the Big Book)that has help as many and saved as many lives. There is certainly no person, place, or thing not to mention theory or study that can do as much for an alcoholic as another alcoholic armed with experience, strength and hope carrying a Big Book. But of course, that alcoholic doesn't charge anything for his sharing and after all, if it doesn't cost money, it's too good to be true......right??
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: ct
Posts: 55
Music,
I respect your experience in sobriety and what you have to say however,you often thump with the conviction and narrowness of a baptist preacher.If a.a has worked for you that's great,and a.a is a great path to follow,but not the only one.Recovery from alcoholism is not as black and white for some as it is for you.It's a deep complex disease and there are a lot of issues underneath the surface.I just don't think the road to recovery is as dogmatic and rigid as you like to pontificate.
I respect your experience in sobriety and what you have to say however,you often thump with the conviction and narrowness of a baptist preacher.If a.a has worked for you that's great,and a.a is a great path to follow,but not the only one.Recovery from alcoholism is not as black and white for some as it is for you.It's a deep complex disease and there are a lot of issues underneath the surface.I just don't think the road to recovery is as dogmatic and rigid as you like to pontificate.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 727
Hi everyone,,before i went to AA,,i thought,
I drank because the sun was shinning,
I drank because the sun didnt shine.
I drank because there was a funeral,
I drank because there was a wedding,
I drank because i was sad,
I drank because i was happy..And so it goes.My truth,is that i drank,,because i am alcoholic,.How does, an alcoholic stop drinking?In my case,i went to AA,and,this, started a process of new thinking,,and living.,when applying the 12 steps.Alcoholism is a disease of my mind,,body,,and my spirit.Before,AA,i could make myself believe anything that i wanted to..I found some data to back up what i was believing.,too.And i was still drunk.But it wasnt until, i started to follow,the AA program,my life changed.Just dont take that first drink...Thats simple..And how to stay stoped,,is in the 12 steps,,for me..This AA program works when i work it..thanks for letting me share,,my story,,
God Bless,,take care!!!!!!!
I drank because the sun was shinning,
I drank because the sun didnt shine.
I drank because there was a funeral,
I drank because there was a wedding,
I drank because i was sad,
I drank because i was happy..And so it goes.My truth,is that i drank,,because i am alcoholic,.How does, an alcoholic stop drinking?In my case,i went to AA,and,this, started a process of new thinking,,and living.,when applying the 12 steps.Alcoholism is a disease of my mind,,body,,and my spirit.Before,AA,i could make myself believe anything that i wanted to..I found some data to back up what i was believing.,too.And i was still drunk.But it wasnt until, i started to follow,the AA program,my life changed.Just dont take that first drink...Thats simple..And how to stay stoped,,is in the 12 steps,,for me..This AA program works when i work it..thanks for letting me share,,my story,,
God Bless,,take care!!!!!!!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 141
Kindablue, The following is the begining of an article Jayhay posted a link to. Thought you might be interested.
Wiebe
Hypoglycemia and Alcoholism:
AA cofounder Bill Wilson was very interested in the link between alcoholism and hypoglycemia. He collected research papers demonstrating the extent of abnormal glucose fluctuations among alcoholics and sent three different reports on the subject to AA physicians. Wilson's interest was personal as well as professional. For many years, he suffered from depression and other hypoglycemic symptoms. He also consumed huge amounts of sugar and caffeine. Finally, by eliminating sugar and caffeine and making other dietary changes, he stabilized his blood sugar and achieved a sense of well-being.
Wiebe
Hypoglycemia and Alcoholism:
AA cofounder Bill Wilson was very interested in the link between alcoholism and hypoglycemia. He collected research papers demonstrating the extent of abnormal glucose fluctuations among alcoholics and sent three different reports on the subject to AA physicians. Wilson's interest was personal as well as professional. For many years, he suffered from depression and other hypoglycemic symptoms. He also consumed huge amounts of sugar and caffeine. Finally, by eliminating sugar and caffeine and making other dietary changes, he stabilized his blood sugar and achieved a sense of well-being.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Originally posted by kindablue
Music,
I respect your experience in sobriety and what you have to say however,you often thump with the conviction and narrowness of a baptist preacher.If a.a has worked for you that's great,and a.a is a great path to follow,but not the only one.Recovery from alcoholism is not as black and white for some as it is for you.It's a deep complex disease and there are a lot of issues underneath the surface.I just don't think the road to recovery is as dogmatic and rigid as you like to pontificate.
Music,
I respect your experience in sobriety and what you have to say however,you often thump with the conviction and narrowness of a baptist preacher.If a.a has worked for you that's great,and a.a is a great path to follow,but not the only one.Recovery from alcoholism is not as black and white for some as it is for you.It's a deep complex disease and there are a lot of issues underneath the surface.I just don't think the road to recovery is as dogmatic and rigid as you like to pontificate.
I've heard there are other ways to get sober. However, when someone trys this and that and doesn't get sober, I have to ask, "So, how's your way working for you?" If I sound like a baptist preacher, it's probably because I believe so strongly in what AA has to offer. Hell, I wasn't sure I wanted to do what AA asked me to do, but the alternative was to continue drinking. I knew I didn't want that. So, I went on blind faith. I believed what Jerry told me because I saw the program working in others. I went to meetings; a lot of meetings. Every day I heard people talk about what AA had done for them. Sure, there were those who drank after coming to AA, but there was always a reason for their drinking, and AA wasn't the reason. They simply didn't want to do what the Big Book said to do so they were in a constant battle. I quit fighting and ran with it.
It's pretty common knowledge that alcohol affects a persons blood sugar. When I drank, I used a lot of sugar in my coffee to keep stable. After being sober for a while, I stopped using sugar or anything else in my coffee and started eating sensibly. A lot of folks find that after they sober up, they've contracted diabetes and have to stick to a diet. That's where the doctor comes in, to diagnose what's wrong....if anything. But, to think that diet can cause someone to drink, in my opinion is absurd.
When I came to AA, we were advised to keep hard candy, orange juice and Karo syrup handy in the event someone went into DTs. If that failed, a couple shots of booze to hold them until they could get to a hospital.
Bill Wilson had a lot of concerns in the beginning but the main concern and rightly so was.....DON'T DRINK THAT FIRST DRINK. When we're under the influence of alcohol or drugs, it's hard to discover what the underlying influences may be. Get sober first, then get medical about it.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 93
One could argue it's very simple to stop drinking - just STOP! Never pick up a drink again. That's it problem solved.
Now since we are all here, we know that approach doesn't work because of a multitude of reasons; not the least dealing with the aftermath of physical and mental addiction. So I think we would agree the problem isn't a simple one, rather an exceptionally complex one - considering the magnitude of the problem. At the moment the overwhelming majority of ppl seeking help to overcome alcohol addiction trot along to AA.
Now Music, I've reread the thread and I greatly respect what you have written. It must seem so frustrating to you to have ppl discussing flakey methods of abstaining when you know what works, and furthermore have solid proof of that - yourself.
I personally think AA is one of the best things to come into existence in the 20th century (since it's founding in 1935) - up there with penicillin (discovered in 1928 btw). Both have saved many lives.
I've personally witnessed the magic of AA. I've seen high court judges, office workers, bikers, freelance writers, convicts just released from jail etc. at AA. If you could take a cross-section of general mankind, and put it in a room and slap on the AA banners, I wouldn't be the least surprised to step into the room - it would be the most normal thing in the world.
Perhaps the most touching thing I've witnessed was the outlaw biker. The outlaw biker clears six foot with ease, is however solid yet wiry, not an ounce of fat - the kind you just know has great physical strength. Shaven head, goatee protruding right down to the solar plexus. Piercings in every conceivable spot on the face; tattoed from head to foot. Aged 40, perhaps a little less seeing as how he's lived his life so fast. Wearing leather vest, denim jeans that worn and then worn some more, jackboots laced up to the knee. All speaking violence. Future violence, backed up by the past violence you can just see in his face, or his knuckles.
The outlaw biker confirms this as he introduces himself - armed robbery, wife bashing, senseless beatings, pointless crimes, drug taking selling, drinking unbelievable amounts of alcohol - five bottles of whisky in a day. I take this all with a grain of salt of course, but hey if he's slightly exaggerating, who am I to interrupt?
The next day the AA meeting is in a public park beside a small disused church hall where we make coffee and take it out. It's a beautiful day. Kids are playing on swings, the kids of alcoholics, I reflect on their future for too long - tap on the shoulder "Hey the meeting's starting!"
Anyhow after the meeting I was chatting to the outlaw biker who had mellowed since the fearsome introductory speech he'd given a few nights before. His kid, boy aged 8 or 9 came along and you could instantly see the loving relationship between the two and how happy they both were.
Now do you think the outlaw biker would have been like this without AA? Can you see how changing his diet - well that's laughable isn't it (hey mate when you're through bashing your wife, can we talk about your nutrition?). You see though don't you? Outlaw biker made this miraculous turnaround because he was given something spiritual to believe in. In outlaw biker's case he soaked up spiritual belief like a sponge - thank christ, well literally!
I chose the outlaw biker to make the point, obviously because it gives maximum contrast. But I could of picked the office worker, or the high court judge and told a similar tale. Point is AA works for these ppl, Music included, and I'm very happy it does.
Now I've personally made the choice not to participate with AA. The overriding spiritual aspect is something I can get from somewhere else. I'm one of those 'complex' ones, who believes that for myself trading drinking for endless meetings with ppl I can identify with but necessarily don't get along with - is just not worthwhile. I don't need the religious fervour to pass on what I personally think is the only way to go. I'm happy to share what works for me, but I'll never ram it down someone's throat.
I personally think nutrition is an important factor in helping an alcoholic cease drinking forever. Even the darling boy of AA made that point.
Now to conclude, let us not ram any personal views down other ppl's throats. Let us share. If you feel you've been harshly done by then say so - but repitition of one's view over and over again is *not* helpful, especially when you've been flagged as not being particularly helpful.
Ok if you've got this far, I've been typing all this while watching India play Australia in Cricket. Australia is having small success which might explain my crankiness.
PanadolSandwich.
Now since we are all here, we know that approach doesn't work because of a multitude of reasons; not the least dealing with the aftermath of physical and mental addiction. So I think we would agree the problem isn't a simple one, rather an exceptionally complex one - considering the magnitude of the problem. At the moment the overwhelming majority of ppl seeking help to overcome alcohol addiction trot along to AA.
Now Music, I've reread the thread and I greatly respect what you have written. It must seem so frustrating to you to have ppl discussing flakey methods of abstaining when you know what works, and furthermore have solid proof of that - yourself.
I personally think AA is one of the best things to come into existence in the 20th century (since it's founding in 1935) - up there with penicillin (discovered in 1928 btw). Both have saved many lives.
I've personally witnessed the magic of AA. I've seen high court judges, office workers, bikers, freelance writers, convicts just released from jail etc. at AA. If you could take a cross-section of general mankind, and put it in a room and slap on the AA banners, I wouldn't be the least surprised to step into the room - it would be the most normal thing in the world.
Perhaps the most touching thing I've witnessed was the outlaw biker. The outlaw biker clears six foot with ease, is however solid yet wiry, not an ounce of fat - the kind you just know has great physical strength. Shaven head, goatee protruding right down to the solar plexus. Piercings in every conceivable spot on the face; tattoed from head to foot. Aged 40, perhaps a little less seeing as how he's lived his life so fast. Wearing leather vest, denim jeans that worn and then worn some more, jackboots laced up to the knee. All speaking violence. Future violence, backed up by the past violence you can just see in his face, or his knuckles.
The outlaw biker confirms this as he introduces himself - armed robbery, wife bashing, senseless beatings, pointless crimes, drug taking selling, drinking unbelievable amounts of alcohol - five bottles of whisky in a day. I take this all with a grain of salt of course, but hey if he's slightly exaggerating, who am I to interrupt?
The next day the AA meeting is in a public park beside a small disused church hall where we make coffee and take it out. It's a beautiful day. Kids are playing on swings, the kids of alcoholics, I reflect on their future for too long - tap on the shoulder "Hey the meeting's starting!"
Anyhow after the meeting I was chatting to the outlaw biker who had mellowed since the fearsome introductory speech he'd given a few nights before. His kid, boy aged 8 or 9 came along and you could instantly see the loving relationship between the two and how happy they both were.
Now do you think the outlaw biker would have been like this without AA? Can you see how changing his diet - well that's laughable isn't it (hey mate when you're through bashing your wife, can we talk about your nutrition?). You see though don't you? Outlaw biker made this miraculous turnaround because he was given something spiritual to believe in. In outlaw biker's case he soaked up spiritual belief like a sponge - thank christ, well literally!
I chose the outlaw biker to make the point, obviously because it gives maximum contrast. But I could of picked the office worker, or the high court judge and told a similar tale. Point is AA works for these ppl, Music included, and I'm very happy it does.
Now I've personally made the choice not to participate with AA. The overriding spiritual aspect is something I can get from somewhere else. I'm one of those 'complex' ones, who believes that for myself trading drinking for endless meetings with ppl I can identify with but necessarily don't get along with - is just not worthwhile. I don't need the religious fervour to pass on what I personally think is the only way to go. I'm happy to share what works for me, but I'll never ram it down someone's throat.
I personally think nutrition is an important factor in helping an alcoholic cease drinking forever. Even the darling boy of AA made that point.
Now to conclude, let us not ram any personal views down other ppl's throats. Let us share. If you feel you've been harshly done by then say so - but repitition of one's view over and over again is *not* helpful, especially when you've been flagged as not being particularly helpful.
Ok if you've got this far, I've been typing all this while watching India play Australia in Cricket. Australia is having small success which might explain my crankiness.
PanadolSandwich.
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