Not being forgiven
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ca
Posts: 51
Not being forgiven
I have been sober for over a year now and I am still dealing with the consequences of the people I have hurt. I have made my amends several times and been sincere. Of course when I was drinking I thought I was only hurting myself. I now see what a lie that is. My gf is now showing the anger she had for all the damage I caused. She says she feels safe to let me know her feelings now, knowing I won't drink over them(I used to use that excuse). I had expectations of being forgiven by now and maybe even praised for my sobriety. Not the case, mostly I still get anger. Are my expectations too high? When do people forgive? Any experience or advice will help. Thank you
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Zion, Illinois
Posts: 3,411
Expectations are dangerous! I made my amends to the people I hurt. What they do with my amend is none of my business. All I can do is my part. My wife used to throw things up at me after I made amends to her. I finally asked her one day what she was trying to achieve by bringing up the past. Was she trying to hurt me? Was she trying to win the "blame game?" What's the point? There's always a payoff if I continue to react to her so I quit reacting. I told her I was no longer willing to talk about anything that happened prior to yesterday. I live one day at a time and I try to remember just one day at a time. I'll discuss yesterday, today and tomorrow but no more. I was told early on by my first sponsor that it's ok to make plans but don't plan the outcome. The same holds true with making amends. I make the amend but I don't plan how the other person will accept or reject my amend. It's none of my business. I don't make it a practice to give advice but I was also told that anything I put in front of my sobriety will cause me problems. Is your gf more important than staying sobe? Is she still trying to "pay back" for the hurt? Maybe she needs help to get through this and maybe you need to give her a wide burth for a time.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by jsch 
... I had expectations of being forgiven by now and maybe even praised for my sobriety. Not the case, mostly I still get anger. Are my expectations too high?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
my serenity is inversely proportional to my expectations. the higher my expectations of people,places, and things, the lower my serenity. discard my expectations, and my serenity level rises.i must keep my mind on acceptance of people, places, and things and off my expectationsfor my serenity is directly proportional to my expectations.
making amends, for me, is about cleaning up my side of the street. the others involved may not believe it and still be hurt.
i was in a relationship early on in recovery. a chronic relapser( if there is such a thing). when i finally broke it off, i started gettin pretty angry at her. then a very good friend said( after gripin to him quite often about her)," tom, theres only one reason why oyu got all this anger towards her and thats because you allowed the relationship to happen and you let her into your life." it was a big chunk of humble pie for me to accept my part in it.
making amends, for me, is about cleaning up my side of the street. the others involved may not believe it and still be hurt.
i was in a relationship early on in recovery. a chronic relapser( if there is such a thing). when i finally broke it off, i started gettin pretty angry at her. then a very good friend said( after gripin to him quite often about her)," tom, theres only one reason why oyu got all this anger towards her and thats because you allowed the relationship to happen and you let her into your life." it was a big chunk of humble pie for me to accept my part in it.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
I was about 3 years sober and clean when I started to notice a bit of
a change in the way I was treated by family and friends that had
stayed friends.
Their attitudes toward me were starting to change a bit and a bit of
the 'trust' was returning.
It took me a while to figure out, that it was NOT my words that
brought about this 'change of theirs.' It was my ACTIONS over the
3 years that I had been sober. They were watching me, struggle,
grow, keep commitments, hold down a job, pay off my creditors,
and actually have a smile on my face once in a while.
To be honest, I was too busy, trying to learn how to LIVE SOBER
to be worried about 'my expectations' of them. Like Music, I had
to STAY IN THE NOW.
There were no PC's back when I got sober, but I did spend the
money and bought a very good DAY PLANNER. My LIFE was in
that planner. My meetings, days and times, my get togethers
with my sponsor, my fun times with other AA friends, my job
goals and projects, etc EVERYTHING was in that planner. It
kept me on my toes.
It was also during those first years that I learned very clearly
that:
"what other people think of me is NONE OF MY BUSINESS."
"what I and HP think of me is."
Show to your loved ones, by your ongoing actions how seriously
you are taking your recovery. Put your 'expectations on the
back burner and continue to be the BEST PERSON YOU CAN BE
TODAY.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
a change in the way I was treated by family and friends that had
stayed friends.
Their attitudes toward me were starting to change a bit and a bit of
the 'trust' was returning.
It took me a while to figure out, that it was NOT my words that
brought about this 'change of theirs.' It was my ACTIONS over the
3 years that I had been sober. They were watching me, struggle,
grow, keep commitments, hold down a job, pay off my creditors,
and actually have a smile on my face once in a while.
To be honest, I was too busy, trying to learn how to LIVE SOBER
to be worried about 'my expectations' of them. Like Music, I had
to STAY IN THE NOW.
There were no PC's back when I got sober, but I did spend the
money and bought a very good DAY PLANNER. My LIFE was in
that planner. My meetings, days and times, my get togethers
with my sponsor, my fun times with other AA friends, my job
goals and projects, etc EVERYTHING was in that planner. It
kept me on my toes.
It was also during those first years that I learned very clearly
that:
"what other people think of me is NONE OF MY BUSINESS."
"what I and HP think of me is."
Show to your loved ones, by your ongoing actions how seriously
you are taking your recovery. Put your 'expectations on the
back burner and continue to be the BEST PERSON YOU CAN BE
TODAY.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by tomsteve
my serenity is inversely proportional to my expectations. the higher my expectations of people,places, and things, the lower my serenity. discard my expectations, and my serenity level rises.
If you believe it is impossible to live without expectations? Try getting serious with steps 10 & 11. Or better yet, try practicing Zen.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by jsch
I had expectations of being forgiven by now and maybe even praised for my sobriety. Not the case, mostly I still get anger. Are my expectations too high? When do people forgive? Any experience or advice will help. Thank you
I look a my life like this: I owe them an apology for what I've put them through. They don't owe me an, "I accept." If they cared enough to watch me self-destruct for so many years and still stuck around, then I can apologize for at least that long.
Good luck, jsch.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,436
welcome jsch 
I'm not trying to be funny but you might wait until snow falls in Hell to be praised for being sober.
Mostly I got told this was how I should have been all along - and they were right - no medals were forthcoming
One of my dear friends here is a loved one of an alcoholic - she said something that stayed with me: 'you guys don't get to set the timetable for my recovery'
I think forgiveness and learning to trust again are very personal decisions...with my loved ones some of them it took a short time, some a long time, and a few not at all.
I can't make people feel the way I want towards me. That was the old active alcoholic me.
What I can do is stay sober, do right, and let them make up their own minds whether I've changed, and how they feel about that
I'm not saying be a whipping boy.
If you look at this, you've tried to see things from the other side, and you still feel you're being unfairly treated?....it's up to you decide what action you need to take now.
D
I'm not trying to be funny but you might wait until snow falls in Hell to be praised for being sober.
Mostly I got told this was how I should have been all along - and they were right - no medals were forthcoming
One of my dear friends here is a loved one of an alcoholic - she said something that stayed with me: 'you guys don't get to set the timetable for my recovery'
I think forgiveness and learning to trust again are very personal decisions...with my loved ones some of them it took a short time, some a long time, and a few not at all.
I can't make people feel the way I want towards me. That was the old active alcoholic me.
What I can do is stay sober, do right, and let them make up their own minds whether I've changed, and how they feel about that
I'm not saying be a whipping boy.
If you look at this, you've tried to see things from the other side, and you still feel you're being unfairly treated?....it's up to you decide what action you need to take now.
D
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 148
I was once in her shoes.
Although, my ABF and I separated.
I can tell you that when HE got sober....*I* got WORSE.
All of my pent up hurt, frustration and resentment that I had bottled up while he was binge drinking (afraid to talk...afraid it would get worse)...it ALL came out when he stopped drinking.
I was a complete train wreck and I treated him horribly...I was NOT in my OWN recovery and that was what I needed.
I kept trying to "even out" the score. "You hurt me 800 times...so I get to hurt YOU 800 times."
That doesn't sound sane. And the truth is, this man I care for VERY much. But unless she has her OWN recovery plan, she will carry these resentments until HER life also becomes unmanageable.
I wish I had considered Al Anon more seriously a year ago. Maybe things would be different.
My recommendation. Keep at it...yes, a few months is nothing very impressive to everyone else.
And encourage her to seek out Al Anon. In my city, we have AA downstairs and Al Anon upstairs. You can see the husbands/wives and girlfriend/boyfriends walking in hand-in-hand...one goes upstairs...one goes downstairs...they come and go together.
Although, my ABF and I separated.
I can tell you that when HE got sober....*I* got WORSE.
All of my pent up hurt, frustration and resentment that I had bottled up while he was binge drinking (afraid to talk...afraid it would get worse)...it ALL came out when he stopped drinking.
I was a complete train wreck and I treated him horribly...I was NOT in my OWN recovery and that was what I needed.
I kept trying to "even out" the score. "You hurt me 800 times...so I get to hurt YOU 800 times."
That doesn't sound sane. And the truth is, this man I care for VERY much. But unless she has her OWN recovery plan, she will carry these resentments until HER life also becomes unmanageable.
I wish I had considered Al Anon more seriously a year ago. Maybe things would be different.
My recommendation. Keep at it...yes, a few months is nothing very impressive to everyone else.
And encourage her to seek out Al Anon. In my city, we have AA downstairs and Al Anon upstairs. You can see the husbands/wives and girlfriend/boyfriends walking in hand-in-hand...one goes upstairs...one goes downstairs...they come and go together.
Hogi
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central FL
Posts: 18
Hope this helps
I was at a meeting on Mothers Day last Sunday and there wore several woman who shared that they still don't get anything for Mothers Day, and they have along time in sobrity. The anger that we cause takes awhile to be forgiven . We can make amends but actions speak louder than words.
I was at a meeting on Mothers Day last Sunday and there wore several woman who shared that they still don't get anything for Mothers Day, and they have along time in sobrity. The anger that we cause takes awhile to be forgiven . We can make amends but actions speak louder than words.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
Originally Posted by Dee74
I'm not trying to be funny but you might wait until snow falls in Hell to be praised for being sober.
Mostly I got told this was how I should have been all along - and they were right - no medals were forthcoming
Mostly I got told this was how I should have been all along - and they were right - no medals were forthcoming
Originally Posted by jsch
When do people forgive?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
Yes, actions have consequences. Just because an addict has moved on does not mean that a wife or girlfriend or boss or anyone suddenly is free from the hurt, fear and damage. Part of being clean and/or sober means that we know longer wish to "close the door on the past." Rather than denying the damage we did, we take responsibility for it.
Living maturely, accepting that we do not get to dictate how other people feel or what they do. The injured party gets do decide if (or when) they will forgive. There will be some relationships that we have damaged beyond repair. There will be some that take a long time to heal.
It sounds harsh, but accepting responsibility for our actions means giving others the freedom to respond as they will.
Living maturely, accepting that we do not get to dictate how other people feel or what they do. The injured party gets do decide if (or when) they will forgive. There will be some relationships that we have damaged beyond repair. There will be some that take a long time to heal.
It sounds harsh, but accepting responsibility for our actions means giving others the freedom to respond as they will.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 75
Really interesting topic
My Ah partner asked after 7 month sober "when are people going to forgive me - Id like some praise for my sobrietry"
Alarm bells...
Some people wont forgive, they have that right as Ive seen my AH partner treat people so awfully that really she had no right to ask for forgiveness. In other words the damage had been done. once sacred boundaries are crossed there is no coming back.
As for being sober - I told her thats how she should act full stop. The wanting praise was childish and in hindsight a precursor to her relapsing.
I hope you continue to do well..
My Ah partner asked after 7 month sober "when are people going to forgive me - Id like some praise for my sobrietry"
Alarm bells...
Some people wont forgive, they have that right as Ive seen my AH partner treat people so awfully that really she had no right to ask for forgiveness. In other words the damage had been done. once sacred boundaries are crossed there is no coming back.
As for being sober - I told her thats how she should act full stop. The wanting praise was childish and in hindsight a precursor to her relapsing.
I hope you continue to do well..
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
The road to resenment is paved with expectations. And resentment can be fatal for alcoholics of my type.
It is great that you have attempted amends with your partner, but by your reaction, I wonder if you bypassed some of the other steps in your haste to get to step 9. It sounds a bit like the amends was conditional, that you expected something from it. I have seen amends go horribly wrong when attempted without the preparation of the previous 8 steps. In fact I would say it is one of the most dangerous things to attempt without proper spiritual ppreparation.
It is great that you have attempted amends with your partner, but by your reaction, I wonder if you bypassed some of the other steps in your haste to get to step 9. It sounds a bit like the amends was conditional, that you expected something from it. I have seen amends go horribly wrong when attempted without the preparation of the previous 8 steps. In fact I would say it is one of the most dangerous things to attempt without proper spiritual ppreparation.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota FL
Posts: 281
I was taught making amends were changing behavior not making an apology.
I am also with the mentality that one shouldnt expect praise for sobering up.
As has already been said- it may be years before anyone notices any change in you at all.
I wish you the best.
I am also with the mentality that one shouldnt expect praise for sobering up.
As has already been said- it may be years before anyone notices any change in you at all.
I wish you the best.
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