TSDD

This malady/allergy doesn't go away, but we certainly stop suffering ill effects from it after a time. The Doctor's Opinion explains it well where he describes a hopeless wretch that found AA and came back to him some time later "recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of body and mind" (paraphrasing to the best of my recollection).

It's like any other illness in remission. I still have it, but am no longer "sick" from it o suffering it's ill effects.

Really IMO it's all somantics and people can call themselves whatever it is they want. If your drinking has taken on a life of it's own and you have stopped the whole world is better off for it.

The sticky thing for me is that if I don't keep my relationship with alcohol up front I'll talk myself into a couple how-do-you-do's and that doesn't go well, so I would consider myself recovered, today, provided I do a few things to maintain that condition.

EricL

I feel like it absolutely does make a difference. By explaining to the newcomer that I am recovered explains to them that this is not a life long battle against the bottle. That I no longer live in fear or have to worry about things like "triggers", or "drinking situations", etc. I have been freed of a mental obsession, free to focus on the only solution AA has to offer - establishing and maintaining a relationship with god. The book makes clear that we do in fact reach this place called recovered where we can walk shoulder to shoulder in the sunlight of the spirit, "in a position of neutrality, safe and protected".

This is not a one-day at a time battle against the first drink. In my experience, and the experience of the first hundred, we certainly do become recovered, often times very quickly if we actually do the work in a timely fashion.

For me this made a huge difference when I was confronted with a recovered alcoholic as a wet drunk. It gave me hope that my life would change, and that it was a permanent solution.

As for "examining the other 23 hours", you're absolutely correct. Nobody has ever recovered in the rooms of AA. People recover in the other 23 hours, am I active in prayer in meditation, am carrying god's vision for me throughout the day, am working my 10th and 11th steps, and am seeking ways to be of service to others in my life? When I fall off the beam, what happens-do I seek to reestablish my relationship with god or do I continue to force my will? Do I show up in people's lives? This is what gets me to be recovered, not sitting in a meeting and regurgitating something we heard earlier.

EricL

People get confused because of this BS from treatment centers that we are "always recovering, never recovered", that this is some kind of life long disease which me must always be aware of and constantly on guard against.

If that is the way people want to live their lives, then that is fine-its their business. But if they want true freedom, want to recover, from this malady then the AA program provides a way to obtain that.

Joe Nerv

This is all so much somantics.

By what you're saying then it is your belief that you do not have to do anything any longer to maintain your sobriety and remain sober. You can quit AA, quit any spiritual practices, diet changes, life changes, or whatever you've done to get sober - and have no problems ever again with alcohol. You are recovered. You no longer have the disease. Alcohol is not, and will never ever be a threat to you. It's simply not a possibility that you will ever pick up a drink again. If you were recovered, it seems to me that this would be the case. Someone recovered from alcoholism could never get drunk again. If it happened, then one could easily say, "Guess you weren't recovered after all, were you?" If I were to take it a step further, someone "recovered" should actually then be able to have a drink once in a while.

To look at the idea of being "recovering" as an idea of living ones life in fear is a little short sighted an innacurate also. I don't work a program and go to meetings because I'm fearful. I don't ever think about drinking. It's not an issue for me any more. I go to meetings and work a program because it helps me to be a sane, productive, and often happy iperson. I learn and continue growing from it all.

I believe most of us feel the same about all this, except for the way we're defining the words. It's for that reason that I don't even include these words in my vocabulary. It seem to me that to do so is only cause for controversy. I feel most people using them too are using them in some sort of pretentious way. As if to say, "I know a little more than you do." :/ My arguments here may make me guilty of the same . I promptly admit that.

To use the ever popular diabetic analogy - if a diabetic controls his/her diabetes by obstaining from the ingestion of carbohydrates, are they no longer diabetic? Are they recovered, or will they be in trouble if they eat a pint of ice cream? I, myself don't consider them recovered from diabetes. I consider them recovering, contingient up the fact that do what they do to remain out of trouble. Do they live in fear the rest of their lives? Maybe. Fear of what ice cream can do to them if they pick it up. I have a healthy fear of alcohol. Like I have a healthy fear of fire. I will not jump into a fire. I know what will happen. I will not drink alcohol. I know what will happen. Neither of these fears rule my life in any way. Neither ever even enter my mind any more.

EricL

No, not at all what I am saying.

Maybe it wasn't made clear. The AA program gives me freedom in the sense that I no longer have to worry about alcohol at all, so long as I seek to maintain my relationship with my god.

Maybe its the definition of "recovered" that is causing confusion. I am not immune to the effects of alcohol, if I were to drink then I would suffer from the same effects as i previously had. However, taking that drink is a nonissue because I do not suffer from the obsession that led to me drink previously.

For me, I do not fear alcohol, it seems to be a nonissue, as promised to me by the alcoholics who did this work before me.

UpperbucksAAguy

The rehabs are not to blame- that type of attitude that gets spouted off from podiums is not the program of AA from the Big Book. No part of what we do in AA has anything to do with complaining about what the rehabs are telling new people.

It isn't the rehabs creating confusion to the newcomer- it is us

Mark75

Oh jeez, I can't stay away from a spirited discussion.

Actually this is a useful thread for me, many good points. Thanx!

I don't think I am substantively any different from anyone else... Non drinkers, normal drinkers... Can't have that afternoon cocktail before dinner, merlot with dinner, beer at the barbeque... But other than that, no difference.... I am not less than or more than. I don't have to in my own mind marginalize myself or separate myself... I have recovered.

I do not enter into living my life with a chip on my shoulder, or flagellate myself, or grovel, or need anything special to be happy. I do not live in shame, anymore... I have cleared the wreckage, made amends where possible, taken inventory. Moved closer to my higher power than I have ever been. Experienced the power of Him in my life.

Sorry, but if that isn't recoverED ... I don't know what is.

Ahem... I got sober in rehab. They sent me home with a recovering mindset... Read my Hazleden everyday... 90 in 90 ... All that... Phooey...

Do the steps... Do them till you get recovered. Till you don't live in fear. So you can live in the sunlight of the spirit.

UpperbucksAAguy

The rehabs job is not to introduce you to 12 step recovery- that is ours. The rehab does what they do- not everyone in a rehab needs to have a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps. If we expect the rehab to understand the mind of a chronic alcoholic like only an alcoholic can we are asking too much.

If we have issues with the rehab we have a few steps to deal with that.

Column 1

Rehab

Mark75

LOL... I have run those columns a few times... Thank God AA was there to introduce me, properly to the 12 steps. Thanx.

UpperbucksAAguy

me too brother

RobbyRobot

Way Awesome.

mercurial me

I almost maintained sobriety from alcohol for a month. I had an epiphany. On March 6, 2007, I was sleeping downstairs in my house as I had hunkered down there to drink excessively. I was going through dt's as I was weaning myself off ciders again and back to beer. I just about sweat through the futon mattress every night. It was about 4a.m, when in the corner of the room I saw this giant black abyss. I had the choice to keep my eyes open and stave it off or close my eyes and know my body would shut down (or overload). I kept my eyes open until the abyss eventually dissipated. Some would call it a hallucination due to alcohol withdrawl, but to me it was a very spiritual experience. As though a higher power was giving me the option to live or die.

The next day, Sunday, I went to church. I grew up a Lutheran, even though my family were not devout. I connected with the most amazing pastor. His sermons spoke to me and gave me faith. I was able to stay sober and even got my sobriety date tattooed on my right bicep to always remind me. Church politics eventually pushed this amazing man, my pastor who had given me such strength and faith out of the church. He went back to his hometown and never returned. No other pastor has even resonated with me like he did.

My sobriety crumbled. I slipped x6 pack to x6 pack back to beer and here I am 5 years later. My doc has been empathetic. Helping me cope with librium. My attempts at AA have been a disaster as others didn't maintain confidentiality. I have cirrhosis and dread my next liver biopsy. I won't marry my fiance as I can't guarantee how long I'll be around.
I won't even consider having kids as my x34 birthday approaches.

This wasn't a post to elicit empathy/sympathy. I'm just saying the only thing that worked for me maintaining my sobriety was having faith in something else & a higher power. As for the here & now, I have no faith in the common man/woman out there. I work, I provide for my fiance, and the thought of being able to hit the liquor store after my shift ends provides my motivation to make it through this otherwise dreary existence.

No intention of disillusioning others that have found sobriety. I envy you. I just don't have your constitution. I truly had it for a while. Sobriety felt amazing. I had it. My fiance was so happy and my family absolutely in awe as they had always know me to be under the influence. I had it. I've you've your sober or find yourself slipping, sobriety truly is the greatest gift in this life.

ReadyAndAble

Amen, Merc. I really appreciate your post.

I hope you pull yourself back up to that place again. I know it's bad, but it doesn't have to get worse.

recoverywfaith

Merc,
Please know you are in my prayers that God puts someone in your life like your previous pastor. Be well Merc....please know you deserve a life of recovery.

Ghostly

I've skimmed most this Thread, and this ^ was what I was thinking. No way am I recovered, but certainly not living in fear of drinking either. I got plenty of other things to worry bout.

THEOjibway

It's only been 10 months tonight that Im sober. Ive been in AA for 5 years now and finally grasping onto it. With the support of my work, family, friends and NOW girlfriend (Whom didnt know I was in AA until last week and supports me thank god) that I finally get it. For me I am in recovery and will be for awhile. I haven't sober for 10 months in over 8 years when I had my first binge and didn't drink again for a full year where it wasn't a big issue. I havent been free from alcohol this long in a long time and I've finally come to terms on knowing why I can't drink, for if I do it'll ruin my life even more and I'll lose the ones who love me and may even die from alcohol which I was on the brink 10 months ago last night, I was lucky enough when I was detoxing on my own (Had enough of going to detox in the summer of 11 and them lecturing me over and over to seek counselling) that I hadn't died in the process. I hadn't slept, or eaten because everytime I tried to even have water it came right back out and I'd be throwing up for a whole day! it was scary to the point where my body was wrecked from being sick all day and it was hard to breathe, every time I closed my eyes my body felt like shutting down and my heart skipped a beat or two, I felt it because I'd jump up gasping for air!

Today I'm sober and falling in love with a girl who doesn't drink, who supports me all the way and is happy with me today, she's only ever known the Sober Chris and not the Drunk Chris and I wish to keep that the same so for me, recovery is a life long battle and so far I'm doing great! Not even having the urge to drink when I go out for dinner with my girlfriend and never second think about drinking when asked what drink I'd like to start off with or even being offered beer specials I don't think about it and just order a Diet Coke Thanks for reading, it works if you work it! Ididn't believe in that before and now I DO!

Dee74

merc...it's never ever too late.
I really believe that cos I was nearly very literally 'late'.

If I can turn the crazy train around you can too - it doesn't take strength IMO - just acceptance...and maybe a little faith

Never EVER give up on yourself.
There's only one you, Merc

D

MsJax

I don't talk about it with anyone (outside of here & my counselor) but I call myself "in recovery". I'm good with that. Every day I am so thankful to be sober, I'll never go back, but I'll never forget the darkness of those years. I am in the process of living, of transforming my entire life. Gratefully in recovery I guess it's just a term! Whatever works!

NewBeginning010

Great thread & posts everyone.... thank you!

From a recovering alcoholic who knows he can never drink alcohol again.

Cheers ~ NB

tornbetweendays

Oh Merc, reading this hurts so bad. Let's all keep his story close in our minds whenever we get the urge to give up on recovery. All my thoughts and prayers for you and your family.