gaffo

Sometimes people are afraid/jealous of people that take control of their own deals. It's not an attractive human attribute but it exists. When a drunk sees another drunk quit it reinforces the knowledge that drinking can be a problem, one that can be fixed but only the hard way. It's scary and we all know about scared humans--very dangerous.

Innerchild

This is so true. I never wanted to be labeled alcoholic bc its a stigma. I have major depression and been in the psych ward a few times. My sister and father act like I have some disease and dont want to see me. I have no support from my family they dont get depression and even though I grew up with my parents drinking too much I am still looked down upon bc I have depression.

Even the stigma of the psych ward is not that bad. There are many people in there just suffering from depression and addictions and their families turned there backs on them. I enjoyed being in a place away from the world and the people in my life I felt safe.

I am writing a memoir and going to focus on stigmas. Nothing to be ashamed of in reality none of us are perfect and many who struggle with addiction and mental illness can be the most strongest compassion and intelligent people out there.

checkmate1

Look.......I can see the people who have no problem with it and its true its in the past and they need not talk about it........but if we want to be open and honest about out past to someone it doesn't mean they're going to think wow he's a changed man "Good on you"....more so behind your back there saying to others "He's not drinking at this function because although recovered he can't handle the drink"....like it or not the stigma is there.

stairs

That's where the "Anonymous" part of AA comes in. I think how we choose to handle it and what repercussions we experience pretty much lies in our own hands.

InsertNameHere

Just curious what is wrong with saying that you just don't drink? No need to get into the whole alcoholic bit, just "its not something I do" I know quite a few people that don't drink and not because they had a "problem" of any kind with it before. My plan when asked is just to say no thanks I don't drink. If I have to explain it to someone that knew I used to drink I am still deciding between "me and alcohol get along too well", "it stopped making me happy" or "I just decided I was done with it". You know play it off no one says you have to announce to the world that you are an alcoholic. If you want to avoid the stigma just say meh I quit drinking because I wanted to. I mean that is the truth even if you had to or die you still wanted to. When explaining to my family that I had a problem with alcohol this is what I said, "I realized latley that I have a problem with alcohol and I am going to figure it out". That is all. They didn't seem to have any issues with it but then agian they are family that is kinda what they are there for.

stairs

Exactly, Insertnamehere! "It doesn't agree with me". "It makes me sick".
There are many ways to be a non drinker without taking the dramatic stance of "I'm an alcoholic". In mixed company this does nothing but create uncomfortable vibes and it serves no purpose because most people do not really get what this means anyway. Discretion is the way I go.
Now say you're a rehab counselor, addictions counselor. Often times they are recovered addicts of one sort or another and there, that is a strength!

checkmate1

Alcoholics anonymous isn't anonymous liza minnelli (who is fomous) says in a youtube video that everyone knows she's an alcoholic and she's AA check that out. The anonymous part of AA is BS.

"I know quite a few people that don't drink and not because they had a "problem" of any kind with it before". That is what you said insetnamehere and how did you know this it is obviously because you asked the question if they were an alcoholic.

Mark75

Yep, it is.... It isn't going to change, nor should it, necessarily.

The stigma is most intense and consistent regarding active drunks and is often well earned... They destroy families, kill people in accidents while DUI, p1ss their pants, all that....

That there is a stigma on recovered alcoholics.... hmmm, IDK, really, I don't know. I don't think most people care too much, one way or another... those that do care? I don't care about them. They're busybodies and should worry about their own selves.

But only my closest of friends and family know of my own past.

stairs

Liza Minnelli? I hardly rank in that level of stardom. LOL.

InsertNameHere

No because that is really something that if they ever did do, it wasn't much, and they just decided it wasn't for them. One of my old roommates when I had just started drinking on a daily basis had never drank in his life. Not because of religion but because that was just how he was raised and also he had a different healthier addiction (getting laid). Worked out great for me because he liked going to the bars to hit on girls and I liked going to the bars to drink, so I had a permanent DD .

Also no, not because I asked if they were an alcoholic, mainly because the idea at the time (daily drinker fully convinced that there was no problem) was completley foriegn to me. I couldn't quite grasp why someone would choose not to drink so I did ask some questions like why not and so forth. But really they were people that had never had a "problem" they just didn't like it if they had drank before. Or if they did currently drink it was maybe once every few months and nowhere near as much as I would on say my average wednesday night with work the next day. So suprised as I was I did learn that there are plenty of people (bear in mind this is in a proffesion where the medical definition of alcoholic drinking is rampant and really somewhat encouraged) who simply choose not to drink, some after trying it a couple of times, some with out ever trying it. I am now joining thier ranks. Yes in my case it is because I developed a problem with it, but now why do I have to be any different from them in the fact that I just don't drink? Yes my reasons may be different but the results and the justification is the same from a certain point of view. i.e. It doesn't make me happy/I don't like it.

InsertNameHere

This I think is a good outlook on the people that inevitably do exist that are going to judge you for your past failings, regardless of your past and present sucesses. These are people that are judgmental and like the holier than thou mentality in my opinion. Of course it is unfair to corral everyone who feels strongly about alcoholism into one personality type and some people have genuine legitimate reasons to hate alcoholism and by association alcoholics. Some alcoholics have done horrible things in their past while under the influence, those actions are naturally going to be condemed and grudges will be held to be passed on to the next "alcoholic" they meet. I think this is more a disdain for the "affliction" (I don't like using the disease word anymore) that is alcoholism and disdain for the specific person that commited the act or acts they associate with alcoholism. That I think is where the stigma comes from, the active alcoholic that continues to use despite negative concequences. People that have never been addicted to such a harmfull substance have no idea of the difficulties that are involved in surmounting it. To them it is simply a matter of "if you cared enough you would stop so you obviously don't care". That would be enough to make anyone feel resentful, about anything. But people that have stopped their drinking and have hence worked to remedy any harm they may have caused I don't feel that they deserve, repugnation somply because of the fact that they drank at one point, and I doubt that most presented with my view point would dissargee. final point I don't think it is the drinking that causes most of the stigma per say, I think it is the negative actions accociated with it and the active drinkers continuance to drink despite those negative actions. Once stopped I see no reason why a person would have to reffer to themselves as an alcoholic, and unless they have commited some other atrocity in association with thier drinking I don't think they deserve any negative "stigma" that the term alcoholic may imply. Because as i stated the stigma associated with alcoholic is more related to the ones in active use and the repercussions of it.

WOW that was long winded sorry if I got off topic there. I am over tired and tent to rant when I am like this. I will shut up now.

MarkstheSpot

I agree with INH. I certainly won't be telling anyone that I'm an alcoholic, partly because my understanding of what an alcoholic is has been gained by reading up on the subject, and most people haven't done that, and partly because there's no real need to tell people.

Me, I'll just fudge the issue. To people who know me a bit better, who expect me to be the life and soul of the party, I'm having some time off. To others, No thanks, I'm driving. Or No thanks I'm on a health kick. Or how about plain old, mind-you-own-business, No thanks. I mean it could be for any reason: I might be on antibiotics or be running a marathon in the morning or looking after a sick kid. Or I've just had one and one's my limit. Or I just might not like it very much. I've got a friend who's literally allergic to the stuff. Lucky her, eh?

So, no, personally I don't think there's any need to go down the route of full disclosure because they probably won't understand for one thing. And secondly because it's a bit of a downer.

Terminally Unique

I have people in my family that do not drink, my mother included. I have never seen her drunk in my life . She is not alcoholic, nor even a problem drinker, not by a long shot. In the United States, when I tell people I don't drink, sometimes they are stupid enough to say to me "Why is that? Are you an alcoholic?", but this would never happen in my home country. It actually sounds ridiculous to me.

I usually look at them askance and say "If I were an alcoholic, don't you think I would be knocking them back?" That is usually enough, but if they pry further, I tell them it is wrong for me to drink, and that usually shuts them up real good. All drinkers are terrified that anyone might suggest that it is wrong *for them* to drink, so they will instinctively recoil from the "W" word as if from a hot flame rather than risk me going there, and pry no further.

onlythetruth

There is certainly a stigma.

We were talking about the issue of labels on other thread here--whether it's useful to continue to self-identify as an alcoholic or addict even after the substance use ceases.

I see the stigma issue as another reason not to self-identify. Most people outside the "recovery" world (i.e. most people we'll encounter in our lives) make no distinction between a "recovered" or "recovering" alcoholic or addict and one who is still drinking or using drugs. Walk around using that term about yourself, and it's pretty much certain that you'll be judged negatively.

Terminally Unique

Here is an interesting article from yesterday, where people are advocating, and funding, sterility for addicts. It is from an Australian newspaper, but Project Prevention was founded in California in 1997, and operates in the US and the UK. Eugenics is alive an well, it would seem. Be sure to pay close attention to the comments section to get a good idea of what Joe Q. Public thinks about this proposal.

Push for sterility payment for addicted

keepfinding2

Yeah, it certainly has a stigma associated with it. I'm sure many people on here have recovered and we can admit that it's rather nice when you know you're an exalcoholic. It's kind of like the stigma being listed. Good post.

SOBERINNEPA

My wife's family thought I was a swell guy when I was a hidden alcoholic. When I finally bottomed out and went to rehab, I reached out to them. They were contemptuous and cold. It's difficult to understand. I plainly had some issue with alcohol prior to entering treatment and that was acceptable. Doing what I had to do to save my life, somehow wasn't. And, take my word for it, I really was trying to save my life.

In the end, they've done me a favor. I truly got to understand that somebody else's opinion of me is none of my business and the only expectations I need to be concerned with are my own. It's been eight months since I've seen, or spoken to, any of my in-laws and I have no plans to do so. My wife still has contact with her family and that's fine, they're important to her, as they should be. They've just ceased to be a significant factor in my life.

BASEjumper

I find the comments and the whole thing just apalling. Reminds me of the Nazi law for the 'Prevention of Hereditarily Diseased Offspring' in Germany in 1933. I wonder what public reaction you'd get if you expanded the program to include folks with family histories of heart disease and diabeties, or other genetic diseases. Won't somebody please think of think of the children?

SOBERINNEPA

That is truly appalling. In "Goodbye Mr. Wonderful", Chris McCully discusses the calcualtions the Nazis did to determine it was more cost effective to exterminate and alcoholic than it was to feed him. This is about a half step short of that.

Spinach

I can understand they are saying "why can't they stop" just as some people say " pull your socks up" to people who are depressed ,and for the weak and scared it puts them ahead makes them superior !!
I will never deny my problems with drink but I will not be defined to others by it either.
Oh and I'm a popular guy around bars with the guys from my small town told them straight Im not drinking right now!Some say great and leave it there others say yeah a rest is good but none to my face has said anything upsetting but If I bored them senseless about drinking and everything I bet I'd be seeing a lot of people's backs.
I do know now though that if anyone asked for help and I could I would make time if I could
As we always made time for drink.
John