Leaving AA
 

I guess I am looking for some advice, perhaps from others who have experienced something similar to me.

I have been a member of AA for 14 months now, and since walking through the doors I have managed to put the drink down and need not pick it back up. I have had so much fun in sobriety. I didn't have much trouble quitting the booze. Maybe the first few weeks were tough and since then, I have barely thought about it really. There has never been a time where I have been really close to picking up a drink.

I have found that I am losing faith in AA though. I chose to ask an older sober male to be my sponsor. He had 30+ years of sobriety. It was wonderful, I admired him and really valued anything he said. I didn't blindly do anything he said, but I took it all on board. I am grateful that he was there in my early days. But a couple of months back, I found out he had had an affair with another woman in AA. This woman has been in and out of the fellowship for over 7 years and had numerous 'busts' all in her words due to 13th steppers...

It rocked me. I had so much respect for this man, and I just couldn't believe he was capable of somethign like that. I know and respect his wife, she is a lovely woman. I hated knowing when she didn't. He didn't know that I knew about the affair for quite some time, because another member had confided in me about it when the other woman had confided in her. I hated knowing and wished I never found out. I never gossiped about it with anyone and wouldn't dream of doing so. Anyways to cut a long story short, the woman he had an affair with told a fair few members, busted, and made a phone call informing his wife of the affair (which she denied and blamed an ex AA member who is back drinking).

His wife forgave him. He was staying away from this woman.

I got a new sponsor amongst all of this (a female). And decided that I needed to start back at the beginning of the steps, as my reaction to this situation was surprising. It triggered me back to my childhood when my father cheated on my mother and then abandoned me. I put this guy ona pedastill aqnd I know thats my fault, but it really upset me and made me sick to my stomoch. This is the only time in AA that I have wanted to drink.

So now to my issue.... I have lost all faith in AA. I have taken a lookj at the type of people in AA and well TBH most of them are still sick. This is not what I want from a sober life. I don't want to be around this crap. I want to leave AA, but for some reason I just can't... I don't hate the program or the people, quite the opposit, I am so grateful for what it has taught me, but I guess I just feel like I have 'outgrown' AA. It feels like a society of gossips and frauds, and I don't want to be like that.

So any advice anyone??

I also have no desire to go back out and start drinking, and i have recently quit smoking, I have a wonderful relationship with my god, and I now attend a spiritualist church where I feel good.

I was told by other long timers in my early sobriety that I would drink again cause I was so happy, so I musn't be doing it right. They had me so scared for a long time until I realised they were just bitter because they suffered (chose to suffer). I just don't know if I want to be around people like this for the rest of my life???

You can leave AA, but you may feel a strange, lingering, inexplicable pull back to the rooms. I say this because you are showing 'classic' signs of what I call the 'AA hangover'. People hear evil, see evil, and feel angry -- rightly so -- but still find it difficult to not praise AA on the way out.

I'm not in AA but I think it's important to try and divorce people from the programme -

Human beings are fallible for sure, but from your post I'm not sure whether your beef is with the programme or some of the people in it.

There's other ways to stay sober for sure - there's a lot of methods in action even here at SR - but I think I'd like to be clear on where exactly my dissatisfaction lies before I made any big decisions? :)

D

Theophania

You've got a year+ and that's awesome. Based upon just your time, it's probably overdue to run through the steps again anyway. ;)

It's good that you see the connection between this guy and your childhood....it's another page of your inventory that you're awake to see. That's the bad thing about waking up though, you see more and not everything feels good when we see it.


I too put my first big AA hero on a pedestal. At the time I didn't think I was.... I knew not to and was confident I wasn't doing it.....but I really was. When she let me down, it hit me hard. I reeeeally needed someone and some advice but she just wasn't available. Life, it seems, had popped up and was knocking her for a loop at the same time it was knocking me around. I didn't want to drink but I felt reeeally alone. I gave up a lot of hope in the fellowship ("lost" isn't the right word...I gave it up...I didn't "lose" it). I started thinking I'd have to go it alone....again. Ah.....that old internal voice again, "you poor guy.....it's you against the world again....poor baby."

At the time, I wasn't in an AA stronghold so most of the ppl I knew in recovery were MOTR / meeting makers make it folks......so there wasn't really anyone I knew who'd be a good source of advice. That's when steps 1 and 2 really started to mean something to me. Hell, I had been relying upon human power too much and they let me down......I'd been ignoring B of the ABCs......

That whole experience got me thinking.......
1. I better get tight with HP sooner or later so I'm not in this mess again.
2. I went back into the steps with some new resolve.
3. I also went on a mission to find the strongest AA out there in my area. I figured just having 1 person to bank on wasn't enough....I want a recovery "family." I found a new homegroup full of recovered alkies who worked the hell out of the program.

I came out of that dark time with a new sponsor, a huuuge awakening from the work through the steps, a whole lot of new knowledge, a new homegroup, and a much MUCH better relationship with God.

Once again, what seemed a "bad time" was really a gateway to a whole lot of good things - things I may not have gone looking for were it not for the tough times. The way I see it, you're in a similar conundrum. You can focus on the bad, do nothing, back out of AA and take your chances........ or you can dig deeper into the AA recovery process like I did. It sure was a good deal for me.

It’s important to distinguish between people and program.

The people afford no rational ground for disappointment. They are people. Program is program. They are not the same thing. It’s like going to church and seeing a neighbor there who committed a crime. Do you blame the church for his behavior or hold the church responsible for what he did? Do you say “ok that’s it, this religion isn’t any good. Frank was at the service, and we all know what HE did!”

We are all imperfect. It’s what we do with those imperfections that’s important. I suggest you take some positive actions. Make an attempt to gently point out how things like gossip can be destructive for example. This would be a constructive use of your energies, and perhaps improve the atmosphere for the next new person who walks in looking for help. What we do is indeed important. But we are all flawed, thats the reason we are in AA to begin with.

Hi,

I kinda reduced your post to the begining and end and cut out the middle. I'ts clear you love AA. That is awesome. :) 14 months and "There has never been a time where I have been really close to picking up a drink."<= your words. That is solid and the best of results. So, yeah AA works for you absolutely.

Its also clear you have been hurt by betrayal from a trusted person you admired and respected. And you're now in despair and some anger is causing you to perhaps be a bit resentful because you were pretty well sucker punched.

Do you know what projection is? When we kinda put on other persons the feelings and ideations that we ourselves are experiencing -- onto to others to wear same as we are, okay?

When we do that, we don't clearly see what they are truly feeling and thinking for themselves ie we see mostly our own projections.

A very common motivation to employ projections is harvested from justifications of our resentments and despairs, angers and fears, etc. Resentments are described as re-feelings of bad experiences -- such as when your father cheated on your mother.

These resentments can feel even stronger then the original offense when we expand on them to the point of projections -- meaning things become even worse as we re-live those re-feelings again and again. :(

This would explain how almost everybody is looking sick and frigged up to you and yet mostly only one important guy betrayed you. Same as your father, unfortunately. And yet almost everybody now looks bad and untrustworthy.

Still though, you really had AA working for you before all this mess. :)

I wonder if I have made any kind of sense for you? I would hate to see someone who is doing so well within AA fellowship and program sobriety just walk away because of a one man betrayal, you know?

I suggest you clear up any re-living of your despair with men who cheat. I also suggest you google and otherwise learn about projections. And I also suggest you find some way to enjoy another AA meeting / fellowship / program experience and event just like you had been loving for many months now :)

:c011:

Thanks Robby..... I needed to hear that again. :)

You were given a great opportunity to grow. Take a thorough look at these old childhood events and see how your life has been affected by them (where you came short). I was wondering about your gender since this sponsor was male and your new one is female. If you're female you might have repeated a pattern. It seems to be God's timing to do some rearranging and healing there.
Leaving AA will be always an option but maybe stick around for now instead of running away?

Principals before personalities is something you hear quite frequently in AA for a good reason. Drinking is just one symptom of our disease. It's quite a shock after your head clears up, and after time you see how some members of AA really are like. Sorry to tell you no matter where you go in life, people will be flawed. Most churches, therapist, and everywhere else you will see people just like your sponsor. I found the AA is what I make of it.

You certainly might if Frank's crime involved another member of the congregation, and the rest of the congregation didn't lift a finger to prevent it from happening again. Or worse, actively discouraged anyone with a conscience and a backbone — there's always one or two in a group — from doing so. You know, the old "Oh, that's OK that Frank is a degenerate, because some are sicker than others — just pray for him" kind of nonsense.

Generally speaking, though, start putting alcoholics on a pedestal at your peril.

A part of growing up was realizing that each person I was close to would let me down at some point, because they are human and have faults. True in AA, true in church, true anywhere you can name.

Your ersatz daddy let you down similarly to the last one. The woman you replaced him with will let you down. Your bestest friend in the whole world will let you down, just as you yourself have let people down.

I hope I haven't let you down by pointing this out.

So what to do? You could go to where the AA people are unflawed and hang out with them, but because of your flaws you might stand out. You could withdraw from AA entirely, but you may have within the year's time noticed people dragging back in after getting so well and feeling so good that they lose track of the reason for their wellness, and mistake it instead for their own innate wonderfulness.

If you were always able to stop and get along fine without AA then that's what you can expect after you leave. If your experience was otherwise then you can expect that.

As big boys and girls we are responsible for our decisions and the reasoning that underlie them. Did you really think that no one in AA had ever done anything wrong? And because now that you've found that people do hurtful and wrong things you can't possibly be a part of AA, suffering now with that knowledge, knowledge you'd never ever suspected might be so? And the knowing of that prevents you from being around all the bad people because they might even do another bad thing, so for your well being you need to distance yourself just in case it happens yet again?

What's more likely is you've come to the point where many run and then find an excuse to run, and you've a reason that sounds resonable to you and you're running it by people here to see if others will think it reasonable as an excuse. Nothing extraordinary happening here.

It's best to leave on good terms, to thank the people who helped you when you needed that and let them know you're very well now and will be just fine forever, no need for their concern. 3 months from that most people will not know your name should you meet them by chance. You'll be only a forgotten part of the blur that passes constantly in and out of AA.

Which is a good thing in my estimation. People who don't care to be involved shouldn't be. Forcing themselves to remain clogs up the works and makes the groups less effective.

You have my full support in leaving.

I've said this before, but the principles/concepts of the "program" are age old and gathered from a variety of sources. You can practice these ideas (all or just some of them) without the fellowship, if you choose.
If you are successfully and happily not drinking, getting on about the business of living, then it comes down to a matter of whom you want to spend your time with.
Staying with the fellowship, or leaving it, needed be a choice that is set in stone either.
LOL I was told that too.
too happy = relapse
not happy enough/resentments=relapse
no higher power=relapse
reject the disease theory=relaspe
less than accepted # of meetings=relapse
declaring permanent abstinence=relapse
no sponsor=relaspe
"over-thinking"=relapse
The way I feel about this is, just because someone says something, doesn't make it true. I really had to find my own personal truths.
I fully respect everyone's path out of addiction...thrilled when others find their way out, because I know, I've been there...so them experiencing the freedom I experience brings me great joy.

Some great advice above.

I do believe you are developing or have developed a resentment against 'some of the people' in the meetings you are going to. Well, they didn't meet your expectations. That is usually where resentments come from "our expectations."

Just because someone finds AA, half azz does the steps, stays sober, talks the talk, but does not walk the talk, does not make AA bad, it makes the 'person' still sick.

I learned very early in my recovery journey to Stick With The Winners. Well how was I suppose to do that? I was to LISTEN and WATCH peoples actions to see if they did WALK THE WAY THEY TALKED. That started with going for coffee after the meetings and 'listening'. Which ones were ready to gossip? Which ones were ready and talking about someone behind their back? etc you get the idea.

See, there is more than just "here are the steps we took which are suggested as a program of recovery.

I learned that after I 'worked' those steps, than I had to get down to the business of LIVING THOSE STEP in all facets of my life. There are a lot of folks in AA who never get that part of the program and continue to be miserable, restless and discontented, and keep going to meetings.

I am over 30 years sober and I have for many years now, continued to read, seek, and apply many other concepts to help me continue to LIVE the steps of AA. I attend a meeting once in a while, when someone I know, be it a sponsee or not is taking a cake, or I get a call from someone asking me to talk to someone. But, AA is NOT my life, living sober is my life.

Congrats on your 14 months. Instead of 'leaving' AA, try some different meetings, and look for "The Winners."

J M H O

Love and hugs,

It's perfectly ok to leave AA. Sometimes it just isn't right for people.

Theophania,

Here are the two most obvious reasons a person might attend AA:

(1) It helps him stay sober.
(2) He enjoys it.

You have suggested that neither (1) nor (2) is true for you any longer. Unless there is some other reason to keep going, it seems your choice is clear.

If you don't hate the people or the program then don't leave. You have to remember everyone is on the same level, we're all just citizens trying to get sober. If AA weren't around then MOST of us would surely be dead. Sure not everyone reaches AA in time or really wants to go because the term GOD is used in it.

With the program it HAS helped you as you say. If you leave and try staying sober on your own it'll be harder. Sure, some have left AA and stayed sober for the rest of their lives but I know I can't leave the fellowship for inside it makes me feel I'm giving up on it and will probably return to my old drinking ways. I have become a very different guy ever since I came to AA. Before AA I was not the kind to speak much or share my feelings. I kept them inside. Now. Now I can speak my mind and really open it up and take people's suggestions and wisdom. In the end it's up to you really to decide if you really want to leave. Are you really going to leave because of someone else's mistakes? In aa it doesn't mean you are perfect. We all make mistakes. it's good you chose another sponsor to interact with if your uncomfortable with the other from his past issues. But their his issues so you shouldn't contradict AA is a bad place to be just from one person. And i'm sure he is working on his amends. I hope you stay with it. AA is a good place and has really shown me another side of myself I never knew existed until now. Good luck.

Howe about giving your new church equal time with a new AA home group?

Well done on your sober progress..:yup:

I've run into the same rut with personalities/gossip before. What helped me was to mix up my meetings a bit and try some I hadnt been to before to hear the message from different faces. It meant a longer car ride at times. However, I found it very beneficial to get away from the "crap" for awhile. I went back to those original meeetings and I seemed to have a fresher, healthier perspective on the "ol'" people I had seen day in and day out.
I wish you the best.

I think that if you need to have "faith' in a program, you are already headed toward failure, because nothing is perfect.

In your post, you talk about "faith" and what other people have done and your relationships to them. You talk about your past.

What you do not talk about is what you yourself have done for your recovery.

Whether you stay in AA or leave, the focus needs to be on your action. A sponsor does not recover you. A program does not recover you. You recover yourself.

Dumping the first sponsor sounds like a good step. You have come to a recognition of some of your own psychological issues. So now---what do you do with that? There are a lot of good reasons to leave AA. I left myself. But leaving because you had a screwed up sponsor? That is life. There are many people who will hurt and disappoint you.

Will you always walk away--or drink--when someone you care about does this?

Choose you next action carefully!