GirlFromCO

No way (yeah, TU ). Although if there weren't an health consequences I don't know if I would have been smart enough to quit. Now that I know what's on the other side - f that s.

coffeenut

Nope. It was never fun for me. Just helped me to act more like an ass to the people I cared the most about.

And, I finally like myself. Not going to mess with that.

langkah

'Whereas in reality it is the alcohol which is at fault in that it is a toxic poisonous drug if taken enough by anybody will render them so-called alcohol.'

LK, might be true for some, but I'd like to put in a word for those of us who were alcoholic from the beginning, with no formal training or much if any previous exposure to alcohol. Just reacted differently. The amounts or length of exposure postulated as being required by those who don't understand did not apply to many of us who got sober young. Some AAs get sober after only a couple of years drinking.

I'd hate to think a young alcoholic might read your statement and falsely believe they needed even longer exposure and adventures and more amounts than has already served to bring them to this forum.

If they're here because their drinking/behavior while drinking is out of control and they can't stay stopped for long on their own, then they're plenty alcoholic enough to now get the help they need to make that possible.

RobbyRobot

My life was already so lost when I was twelve years old and I crossed from having "fun" drinking and playin' into numbing myself out. I wasn't even finshed growing physically, you know? Perspective change? Please.

Let me say it like this:

The pain that alcohol caused me was greater then the pain of not having it and I wanted to hurt bad. You may not be a guy like that, but I certainly am cut from that cloth. A guy can get to a place where pain is a welcome understanding for the life being lived. Its not always about what 'feels good' when you're a kid and drunk outta your fukking mind.

But that's me.

Not hard to quit when feeling the pain? Yeah. I'll tell that to my dead friends.

Fukk.

kanamit

I think that's littleknitting's point. Such a person does not exist outside of AA's doctrine. I've certainly only ever heard anyone claim they were an alcoholic before they took a drink from someone in AA.

Certainly, within the Allen Carr/Easy Way paradigm, there is no such thing as an addictive personality.

In the structural model of addiction, which I subscribe to, to say one is predisposed to addiction (i.e. were an addict before ever taking the addictive substance in question) is the addictive voice itself, since it promotes the future use of alcohol and other drugs.

E.g.:

WhySoSerious

never had any health or legal issues (thank you lord) just personal issues. relationships with both friends and girlfriends were strained. Ill take my friends over the booze any day. Plus its great to watch them act like fools knowing how crappy they will feel in the morning.

Terminally Unique

That sounds familiar. I think when the pain of drinking becomes greater than the perceived pleasure, or perceived lack of pain, if you prefer, you simply become ambivalent. People may hang out in this purgatory for a long time. I know that I certainly did.

My body was literally rejecting the poison by the end, which you would think would be enough to make me conclude 'OK, stupid, obviously this stuff is ruining you', but I kept trying to force it down anyway. Some days I was more successful than others, some days not at all. Nothing is going to 'happen' until you decide one way or the other.

lillyknitting

I would like to add that I went to AA because a I felt I was drinking too much. Unfortunately for me it didn't work because I could not relate to the 12 steps, I didn't think I was a bad person, I didn't feel I was extraordinarily different in any wY from the next person other than I was one of those persons that loved the feeling of a few drinks and wanted more and more. Something switched in my brain and said "yes, it's party time, let's go party". Unfortunately this does not bode well with relationships and a normal middle of the road family life. I have "tried" everything to stop drinking, and the only way I know is for me to realize categorically that for me it destroys my life, my family, my health and everything I hold dear.

lillyknitting

Sitting in meetings listening to people going on about the steps, I am sorry, but I just couldn't relate however much I tried. There were some lovely people there and I have made one life long friend who with AA she has not drunk for 18 years and yes, I do envy that, but what can I do??? If the overwhelming desire for a drink comes on, invariably I will have one, although I wish I didn't, a bit like cake really and constantly being on a diet or diabetic, I think!!!!!

soberlicious

agreed...hence my reaction to the "fun" comments.

Me too. I was starting to have that yellowish palor. I forced it down sometimes too and I drank daily, oftentimes being too drunk to even be physically able to crack another beer and get it to my mouth. I managed, but it was ugly. So gross

wheresthefun

"If you could drink without any health consequences would you?"

If "ifs" and "buts" were candies and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

For me, unless something can actually be changed, or a lesson learned, I just don't see the point in visiting the world of "ifs". "BUT", that's just me.

BackToSquareOne

Robby, let me run this by you and see what you think. Is it possible that the "Paradigm Shift" that I refer to isn't exactly the same thing as the "Spiritual Awakening" that the AA crowd talks about. When the desire to continue on with the insanity is gone and you view alcohol in a different light, what has occurred?

The term "spiritual awakening" infers that the person is "spiritually asleep" or they'd have nothing to awaken from. What if the person already is a good, decent, play by the rules, keeps most of the 10 commandments kind of man/woman then just how much more spiritually awake do they need to be?

Consider also that the rate of alcoholism is much higher in the clergy than it is in the general public on a per capita basis. You would assume that the clergy would have some degree of spirituality would you not?

In AA you claim that the desire to drink is lifted when a "Spiritual Awakening" occurs. Do you honestly believe that this only happens in AA? Does it really matter what label you assign to the same phenomenon?

We all drank through pain, nothing new there, that's called active addiction. To infer that it's not much easier to throw in the towel when it seems like the alcohol is no longer working and is only making you sicker makes no sense to me.

Unless I'm reading you wrong you seem to be inferring that a "Paradigm Shift" is not enough to elicit a change but a spiritual awakening is. Give me a break.

Fukk

THEOjibway

I'd still say no. I remember reading in a passage in the big book abnormal drinkers always wish and hope later on in life they can drink like normal people and enjoy their drinking once again. Also that there is no cure for alcoholism but maybe later in the future. If that were true and there was a cure and we could drink again? I'd still say no. Drinking took so much from me in life and from others too who been in my position.

I lost friends, got involved with police but not taken away thanking my friends that they convince the cops not to take me away and losing so many chances at obtaining full time status but drinking it away

I can't really think it being a positive thing to have back. I won't lie though, not every binge involved police, yelling, fist fighting or throwing of things. Sometimes it WAS fun and I had a good time but that was very rare.

Being sober for 6 months now i can't imagine picking that glass up again. I can't. I almost died the last time from over doing my drinking. I remember vaguely when I kept drinking every day and all night that drinking just helped me function and that if I didn't I'd pass out and I was afraid I'd die in my sleep so the sickness in my mind told me keep drinking. My body functions started faltering and I couldn't walk straight and as soon as I fall on the ground in sleep position I'd start to pass out and but be afraid to. Glad I don't deal with that anymore. So my answer is like what the OP said HELL NO. lol

RobbyRobot

Please don't generalize me with the AA crowd. I'm alot of things but i have never been one of the crowd, okay?

I never drank to feel good and your just gonna have to accept that or not. I drank to feel the same as my life felt like which was rotten. You have missed my point. I felt good feeling bad, okay?

As for the spiritual awakening, that did not rid me of any desire, and your not going to hear that way of experience alot from other AA members. My desire is everything it has always been. What has changed is it is no longer a problem for me because I don't drink alcohol anymore no matter how strong or weak or whatever that desire does. For me, the 'drinking problem' has been removed, not the desire, ok? The alcoholic desire is powerless without alcohol but it yet remains.

You're talking to the choir on that one.

No, I would not, and I have been very close friends with members of the clergy, okay? Spirituality is no respecter of class or status whatsoever. You seem to think otherwise. The clergy have religion of course and with religion spirituality is limited by design, imo.


I make no such claim myself, as explained. Look, I'm not the poster kid for AA okay? Believe me, lol. No one person or group speaks for AA. That may be something for you to muse about, okay?

Of course I do not believe that spiritual whatever only happens in AA. Please. I'm not that dumb.

Well, you dont read my posts much do you? I have never said alcohol didn't work for me except the last time I was drunk in my detox and that was the last time I have ever drank, okay? I only drank because alcohol was always working for me. I wanted to have it fukk me up and it was really good at that each time I drank it. You really dont understand what i'm sharing and that's okay. It just means we're different. Alcohol never disappointed me. My life disappointed me, not alcohol. I was my own failure, not alcohol. Chronic alcoholism is now my legacy and if I picked up an alcoholic drink today I would again be serviced and used by alcohol same as always and since I made myself drink i would be happy with those results and the price for that happiness would be again me dying in mind, heart, and body. I dont drink alcohol today because I don't want to die drunk. Same as the last time I quit. It's as simple as that. All the other stuff is how to live a life as a recovered alcoholic. I don't drink today because I have forever quit drinking, okay? It starts and ends there. Now you can see I'm not your everyday AA guy, right?

You're reading me wrong. As for the break, I don't think so. You missed the whole gist of my post and yet you generalize me as something you understand because you think me as one of the AA crowd. You misunderstand not only my current state of abstinence, and my spiritual life, but as well my past state of alcoholism.

Hey. Relax, BTSO. No worries. I just responded to your inference that when the pain replaces the pleasure its is easy to quit. Well, not for me, okay? I didn't drink through the pain, i drank to experience the pain. My dead friends simply kept drinking and killed themselves with a complete understanding of their death, okay? They were not surprised, they were not unwilling. They were street people if that helps you understand. I am from the street, BTSO.

Thanks for your share back.

Terminally Unique

My Beast once had a spiritual awakening as a result of all the high proof spirits I fed it. It now has a spiritual problem.

RobbyRobot

AWESOME !!

BackToSquareOne

Wow Robbie, a lot of insight in your response. Everyone that I know who quit did so because the consequences just got to be too painful. If it stayed all fun and games, peaches and cream then nobody would quit, why would they?

I drank for decades and somewhere along the line lost any semblance of "normal". Simply put numb was better than lost. With the combo of depression/anxiety + lost, numb seemed like a viable option. The alcohol seemed to work until it didn't, albeit it took decades to reach that point.

You have quite a fascinating story of recovery, probably hard for most people to relate to though. Starting at the age of 12 with hardcore drinking is not that common. I was in 5th grade at 12, in a Catholic school wearing a uniform.

When you say you drank to experience the pain I take that to mean that the pain was better than your life experience at that point in time. My worst pain was in trying to force vodka down to stave off withdrawal, throwing up and repeating the process until it stayed down.

I can't say that I ever drank to elicit pain, it was quite the opposite in my case. There was much pain along the way but that was never my objective. Anyhow thanks for the great response Robbie, love your honesty.

Ranger

Cool thread!

In my experience, "spiritual awakening" is a remarkably apt term for the event being described. I have often described what happened to me as a "spiritual shoulder shake" that "awakened" me from a 16-year drunken trance.

Of course, our recoveries are as varied as our illnesses. Many addicts find enduring sobriety without experiencing anything close to what they'd describe as a "spiritual awakening". Understandably, some of these folks find the notion of a "spiritual awakening" a little strange, perhaps even on the verge of hocus pocus. I get that. To this day when I recall how completely and abruptly my obsession to drink was removed, I am at once humbled and dumbfounded.

Now, about that "good, decent, play by the rules, keeps most of the 10 commandments" kind of drunk...

RobbyRobot

Yeah, you nailed it there, BTSO. Same idea that we can often use one pain (or other feeling / emotion) to mask over a differing pain. The alcoholic induced amplifying of my pains felt justified to me because of the illusion of control and satisfaction that I surpassed my real challenges. A complete delusion but real enough when drunk. As well, it blanked out the actual true life pain I was enduring. So a win-win even though I was losing. The trouble with my drinking behavior of course was once you start to feed that kind of pure desire you are hooked big time. A real trainwreck.

To be honest, this thread hit a chord for me because it brought home to me the terrible health consequences of my drinking. At the time, those health costs could not be paid by me and the alcoholic price was the lessor cost and I played that scene for all I could get outta of it. Another alcoholic minded delusion but its amazing how the human mind can protect even as it destroys itself if its forced into the wrong process. I simply overwhelmed myself to get beyond myself. Like exercising a muscle. Same idea.

The other thing with this is I have some upcoming surgey this summer directly related to those years when i was a kid and growing up. Alot of memories and feelings are so inter-weaved with my now null alcoholic mind that it is difficult to process through the darkness and keep my alcoholic mind asleep. Its best to leave some things asleep, and yet I have need of emotional and mental closure for my surgery to have its greatest benefit realized. I am having my entire paralytic right leg amputated at the hip level. The other thing is the surgery is elective, and is being granted to me because of my extensive past medical history. The leg itself is healthy medically speaking and not diseased. It is important to do this right and have it square with my psyche. There is no second chance of course.

I'm fortunate that the price i paid to drink the way I did now affords me the ideal understanding that I quit alcohol first and then sought a sober life based on not drinking ever again, and not the mirror reverse of living a sober life just to keep me from drinking that alcoholic drink.

Thanks, BTSO.

soberlicious

Probably not. Although I was not in as hardcore at that age as Robby was, I was already regularly practicing behaviors at 12 that no child that age should even know about but even a little-child-lost can be a strong healthy adult as evidenced by so many on this site.

THAT is a profound insight. wow...thank you Robby...your insight is truly inspiring