Over-Complicating Things
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 449
"Then let his family or a friend ask him if he wants to quit for good and if he would go to any extreme to do so. If he says yes, then his attention should be drawn to you as a person who has recovered. "
AA Big Book -- Chapter 7
This is true, knocking it off for good and total abstinence. It's quite simple but for those who lack the power to do so, there's are solutions as well. That power might come from a great reality deep within, an empowering plan or something, knowledge might even work for some - knowledge is power they say.
But I agree, total abstinence is the ultimate solution for alcoholics.
AA Big Book -- Chapter 7
This is true, knocking it off for good and total abstinence. It's quite simple but for those who lack the power to do so, there's are solutions as well. That power might come from a great reality deep within, an empowering plan or something, knowledge might even work for some - knowledge is power they say.
But I agree, total abstinence is the ultimate solution for alcoholics.
where the light is
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,763
Originally Posted by Terminally Unique 
If drinking alcohol were indeed 'but a symptom', then logically, you really couldn't choose not to drink, could you? That would be like saying that you could choose to not get a fever, which is 'but a symptom', when you have the flu.
Sex, food, drugs, gambling addictions...it's the person that's the issue.
And while there are people who are able to choose not to drink, I wasn't one of them. Given time, I would drink again. That's why I needed help.
Simple!
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 73
Not all people who drink regularly get addicted to alcohol. Actually most don't. What about the alcoholics who go binge drinking once in a while? Their brain chemistry isn't screwed yet they are alcoholics. Reducing alcoholism to neurochemistry sounds a bit too simple to me. So far I haven't heard of any scientific model on alcoholism which really makes sense to me.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by Ranger
Not half as strange as my drinking becoming classically alcoholic within weeks of my first sips, or the fact I have college buddies whose drinking made mine look amateurish transitioned out of their drunken years quite effortlessly.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by terminally unique
addiction seems to be primarily driven by intolerance of desire, hence all the talk from addicted people about wanting the desire to be removed. While somewhat understandable, that attitude is a tad bit wimpy if you ask me. I have sexual desire for certain people who are not my significant other, and which i had better restrain, and i do. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. it would be most peculiar to want to be neutered in order to not feel any desire at all, however.
totally awesome!!
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by Boleo
What I did end up with was a whole new way of life where suffering was no longer the result of me making mountains out of molehills. Today I let molehills stay molehills and even find I can make mountains back into molehills by using a few simple spiritual principles. Thus the old Buddhist saying:
"In this life, pain is inevitable - suffering is optional".
"In this life, pain is inevitable - suffering is optional".
So very true -- suffering is optional!
Great thread!
Encourager In Training
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: KS
Posts: 717
Originally Posted by Terminally Unique
I suspect that different people have different tolerances, their bodies have a different capacity to adapt to alcohol, and they have different breaking points, so to speak. For years, I never really got hangovers, and I would drink loads more than others who did get massive hangovers from drinking much less. At the time, I thought those people just didn't know how to drink properly, but in hindsight, I seriously doubt that it was because I was particularly clever. More likely than not, something in my physiology simply allowed me to tolerate those ridiculous amounts, until one day I couldn't.
Though my drinking was lesser in freqency and volume than my hard drinking school chums, my relationship with alcohol was always just that...a relationship. I didn't drink more, I drank differently.
The notion I drank myself off a cliff only makes sense if I was standing at the edge before I ever began.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bethlehem, PA.
Posts: 1,781
Originally Posted by langkah
Most alcoholics have had long experience with knocking it off for good, endlessly. The temporarily sober will drink again not because they understand too much and have delved into the subject too deeply and have needlessly complicated things. Through over simplification and minimizing they fail to understand what they are up against, and do not secure sufficient answers that work well to overcome it, generally speaking.
They are no more choosing to drink when they feel good and have decided firmly not to drink again than an epileptic can decide very firmly with ironclad resolve to not have a fit.
They are no more choosing to drink when they feel good and have decided firmly not to drink again than an epileptic can decide very firmly with ironclad resolve to not have a fit.
This is what totally confuses me, I can not relate to it at all. I was always 100% aware of what I was doing if I was feeling good and made the decision to drink again. I knew it was wrong but I did it anyhow. I would be lieing to suggest that supernatural forces were making me drink, it was my decision and no one but me was responsible for my actions.
My experience may be different though as I was a bender style drinker, meaning that I had periods of sobriety between the benders. Once I started drinking I would not stop until I got too sick to continue on with it. While in the depths of detox/withdrawal, on deaths doorstep I would swear off alcohol, "Never again, just get me through this God and I'll never do it again", that was my mantra and I wore it out.
My swearing off never lasted though, it might have taken a few weeks to many months, once even the better part of a year. Once I was feeling good again and things were going well my resolve to stay stopped went right out the window. I'd be right back at it again picking up where I left off with the last bender. That pattern went on for almost 3 decades.
The only reason I decided to "knock it off for good" was that the pain of it all was getting greater than the perceived pleasure. The withdrawal periods were getting worse, anxiety/depression was becomming part of the mix and I knew my drinking days were over. That was in August, 2008 and the only things I used were this board and mindfulness practice.
In AA they talk about being "Done with it" and I was about as done as anyone could get. When I did drink I knew it was wrong but I did it anyhow, there was no one to blame but myself. There was no denial involved in any of it, I knew I had a problem but wasn't interested in making a sincere effort to throw in the towel until I had enough pain. Anyhow, that's my 2 cents worth.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by raindancer11
I tried the more direct approach of deciding to quit and then quitting but I would forget why I decided to quit. Then, I would remember and later forget and be stuck in this pattern until I really got that, for me, addiction to alcohol is permanent and the ability to forget is also permanent.
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
Posts: 8,997
Yeah...That's addressed in the Big Book first edition pg 24.
The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so-called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink.
The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so-called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink.
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