Peta

Hi everyone

My drinking story

Started drinking heavily in the weekends at 16, progressed to almost daily drinking by 20/21 (realised I had a problem) read Allen Car's book which I related to and came on these boards at 22. Finally got Sober at 24 after being hypnotised (lost desire to drink) for 14 months. Picked up again at 25/26 after meeting my husband who is a drinker and I decided try 'social drinking' again now that I was in a solid relationship

Drinking took off again but not daily. Went to AA age 26 after friend of mine joined and I wanted to support her. Really related in some areas and after a few months and getting a sponsor I got sober for over a year.

Then in October last year after being in AA for another 14 months picked up again (Thinking..'Perhaps not an alcoholic ..My drinking never that bad as the other AA'rs, never lost job, done for drunk driving etc etc)

Now almost 3 months down the track I've had more sober than drinking time. Been back in touch with sponsor have attended meetings but I'm just not 'getting' it for some reason?? I'll have 3-7 days sober and then the addictive voice kicks in and I pick up?? I try handing it over to God (I do believe so the spiritual side of the program isnt diffucult for me to grasp) But the addictive voice wins out most of the time

Having explored these boards I've gone to Rational Recovery on Amazon and read some of the reveiws which have been really encouraging to me

I too struggled with the AA concept that alcoholism 'disease' because I do believe we have some control over it.

My father made a decision to stop drinking and hasnt had a drink in 13 years and has never stepped into AA.

I dont want to drink - I dont want to be a drinker anymore but I dont want to be THINKING about drinking all the bloody time!!!

I think AA is great for some people but part of me thinks that maybe it makes me focus on the alcohol more than I need to??

I'm interested in getting other peoples experiences - perhaps those who have tried AA and Rational Recovery and how you found each?

Many thanks

Dee74

Welcome back Peta
I predict you'll find a lot of opinions in this thread

If you think you might need something else I encourage you to check everything out - not just AA and RR but SMART, LifeRing, Women For Sobriety and whatever else you may hear about too.

Here are some of the main players:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...formation.html

You can read a little about Rational Recovery/AVRT in our Secular Connections forum too

D

Terminally Unique

I could certainly give you my take on this, which is likely to be biased, but why don't you simply get the RR book (~$5 used), read it, and then draw your own conclusions? As Dee mentioned, there is an active AVRT thread in the secular connections forum, which you can also read through.

Peta

Thanks - I will do that

Am ordering from Amazon right now

I would appreciate your opinion even if it is biased??

Interested in hearing other peoples experiences

I feel like such an AA failure

SSIL75

I am sober through rational recovery. Never been to an AA meeting. Very happy!

mfanch

These programs are not mutually exclusive, either. I utilize LifeRing, RR, and AA. I take what I need and leave the rest.

freshstart57

I decided I was not going to drink again one morning, and then I tried to learn how the heck I was going to do that. I used some training from quitting smoking for a while a long time ago, how to separate myself from that craving idea. I was reading everything I could find about alcohol abuse, and went to some AA meetings, but all the while I was still using those ideas about recognizing the urge to drink for what it really was, something I could control, and something that would kill me quickly if I didn't get a grip.

One of the things I read about was AVRT and Rational Recovery, and the penny dropped! That was exactly what I had been doing all along. This makes sense now, since the author wrote this book after talking to thousands of people of all sorts who had quit 'on their own'. No meetings, no HP, no steps. Sober date is Aug 22, 2011.

Now, the cravings are like a flash of light that disappears as soon as it appears. Piece of cake now. I continue to work on my sobriety though, working on Mindfulness, and by posting here. Read a bunch on RR and see if it makes sense to you.

Mark75

Hi Peta... I'll give you my opinion. I'm AA, but I can only speak for myself....Just a couple of thoughts.

I don't really see Alcoholism as a disease. The big book doesn't really either. It does suggest that we were sick, and uh, I've got no problem with that. But I don't call it a disease and neither do the author(s) of the big book.

This whole powerlessness thing and AA?... I think I understand why people, people just like yourself, have a problem with that. My opinion is that it is a perspective... bottom line is that no one poured alcohol down my throat and no one but me can do it again... The ideas of choice and powerlessness really go deeper than the actual choice mechanism.... If I always choose to do one thing, regardless of the situation, consequences, etc... if I always make that same choice, is it really a choice?

As far as the focus on alcohol.... Only the first step even mentions alcohol and after that... it's about us and spirituality.

onlythetruth

I'm a little like your father. I made a decision to quit drinking 13 years ago, and haven't taken a drink since.

Unlike him, though, I did set foot in AA meetings. Many of them, for many years--all because my rehab counselor assured me that there was no way I would be able to quit drinking over the long haul without being in AA.

I tried very hard to make it "work" for me, and to "get" it, but because I fundamentally did not believe that my sobriety came from any outside source, it was a struggle. Often very painful for me, I'm sad to say. I only wish I had trusted my own instincts enough to ignore the inner voice telling me that my rehab counselor was wrong, at least for me. But for a long time, I didn't trust myself. I kept trying to "get it" and feeling badly about myself because I couldn't. What felt REALLY bad is that I was living a lie, pretending to believe all these things I really didn't, in order to fit in.

I stopped playing that game four years ago and left AA altogether. I feel much more comfortable. I've aligned myself with SMART Recovery since then, not so much because I need ANY recovery program at this point but because if I'd had the opportunity to pick the most compatible recovery path for myself at the start, SMART Recovery would have been my choice. My main goal is to help others understand that they have choices, and that there is no "right" or "best" way to recover.

In the end it's all about doing what fits. For me, I got sober almost in spite of AA and I don't recommend that path to anyone else. If AA resonates, that is wonderful, and I say go for it. Clearly AA does help some folks. But don't ever live a lie in the name of recovery, like I did. You have too many options for that.

Terminally Unique

Unless you pick and choose what you want, like you say you do, they are somewhat contradictory. The first step of AA requires admitting that one is powerless over the desire for alcohol, ie, the Beast of AVRT. Lest anyone tries to suggest to me that the first step of AA means "powerless over alcohol" and not "powerless over the desire for alcohol," here are the relevant passages that say otherwise.

AVRT is that mental defense.

kanamit

I found RR via this website and it worked wonders for me. My advice would be to read the book—but don't read it too fast and read it at least twice. Be sure to do all the actions in the book.

Then read all three threads in the secular forum and then post any questions you have.

My summary of AVRT is:

• It's not a treatment, it's an alternative to addiction
• It works regardless of whether you're religious or not
• It works for any addiction and any degree of addiction (saying you haven't hit rock bottom yet or that you're too severe a case are comments made by the AV to continue drinking)
• It does not require willpower, rather it requires you learn a simple skill
• It is all or nothing, you quit forever, unconditionally
• You are completely on your own; not only do you not need recovery groups, they are detrimental to you

Terminally Unique

Hopefully you ordered "Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction" by Jack Trimpey, which explains AVRT, and not "The Small Book," which RR no longer uses.

The two approaches are very different, and AVRT is not something that "works on you" and produces results, but rather something that you learn and then put to use yourself. I believe that AVRT is very powerful, but you have to actually learn it. The best way to do that is to read the book, read the AVRT threads, and then post any questions you may have.

Though certainly not a requirement by any means, most of the people who come to Rational Recovery would fit that profile.

Terminally Unique

I really shouldn't say that this is the best way to learn AVRT, since technically you could take "AVRT: The Course" with Jack Trimpey and have the AVRT master himself teach you the ropes, but it is nevertheless a good, and very inexpensive way to do so.

Mark75

When I listen to certain speakers, I can feel like a failure in AA... If I compare. My experience is only that, and if I have found peace and serenity, then I am not a failure. Even if my experience is much different than that of some guru or circuit speaker... But if I can identify with even a small part of another's experience... Then it's all good.

I have found some value, in my own experiences in recovery, in AVRT... The beast thing and all... Addictive Voice, sh1t yea!! But I have also found much in inventory and my higher power and in the face to face fellowship.

Nice thread... I am grateful for people like Terminally Unique and onlythetruth... They have a strong consistent message. I am grateful to people like you, Peta, who bring thoughtful questions... And, of course, grateful for AA!

langkah

Definately order the book, Peta.

The guilt thing I don't understand though, You don't say you feel you failed Allen when you drank after using his book. You apparently don't feel any guilt about failing your Hypnotist either. You did a little lightweight AA and moved on from there still not grasping you're an alcoholic and figured that as a normal drinker you can drink just fine...guilt built around that is inappropriate, at least to my mind.

To me drinking again after a stretch of not drinking is nothing more than a signal the alcoholic doesn't yet understand.

At some point in the future you may secure an understanding that runs deeper than you can now imagine possible, and is useful in propelling us to get better.

No matter what all you want to try out from this point going forward, I really hope you don't carry the guilt you spoke of regarding being on the fringe of AA for even another minute. It's not even remotely appropriate in your situation and could harm you over the longterm...and your alcoholism is something you'll be dealing with one way or another the rest of your life, so crippling your chances to get better in any way is to be avoided.

So, zero guilt regarding anything you might half-try to help yourself all through the coming years is best for Peta. With the passage of time and steady continuing efforts you may find a level of understanding that will work well for you.

Keep after that, no matter what happens.

DarrenW

I just bought the Rational Recovery on Amazon- $3.5 plus $3.99 shipping (used-good condition). Looking forward to reading!

BabyKangaroo

I don't think you have to go to AA either to sober up. I know my Grandpa, my mother, my Grandmother and many others who made the choice to quit drinking and did just that. They WERE/ARE problem drinkers. My mom doesn't mince words she knows she is an alocholic and always will be. Me too.

I believe that what you focus your mind on will determine what kind of person you are and whether you decide to give into something that will take over you at some point [whether sooner or later...] So I chose to focus on building up my Faith and relationship with God. I know for a fact that my Bible study and regular attendance at Christian meetings will be the only thing to keep me sober.

If you want to learn more about the Bible you should accept a Bible study with people who offer it free and are doing it world wide. I believe it will be the only thing that saves me from myself, from my thorn in my side- my alcoholism.

watchtower.org

Terminally Unique

↑ ↑ ↑

Although AVRT is congruent with Christian salvation, I wasn't expecting a plug for the Official Web Site of Jehovah’s Witnesses in this thread.

keithj

Fundamental to the AA program of recovery, is the idea that no human power could have relieved my alcoholism. The only way I was willing to accept that notion, was because of my own experience with repeatedly failing to stay sober.

When I had first-hand experience with that pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization that follows staying sober for a while, thinking my life was back on track, and then getting terrifically drunk and staying drunk, then I started to be open to the idea that I was powerless over whether or not I picked up that first drink. That started to make some sense to me. And the more I read in the BB about the experience of those recovered alcoholics, the more it seemed to fit me.

My experience in AA shows me a couple of things: The 12 Steps of AA will work for anyone that takes them according to the specific and precise directions in the BB. However, becoming willing to do them, depends on that desperation and hopelessness that comes from failing at 'human methods' of staying sober.

So, my suggestion to someone who is considering an AA or a RR approach, is to try RR and see if it works. Because there is little point in jumping into the 12 Steps if one isn't convinced that they need some additional power.

For many, additional power is not needed. They can decide to quit drinking and stick to it. Either circumstances in their life become intolerable, or they find the support they need without spiritual help, or they find a program like RR that works for them, and they stay sober, taking advantage of what they find.

And if all of that doesn't work, and they find themselves, like me, inexplicably picking up a drink in spite of the consequences, in spite of their decision, and in spite of the support and treatment and mental resources, then AA is available and will work for them.

langkah

The JW's have do have a suggested program to follow for their alcoholic members, who they believe may have a genetic predisposition toward alcoholism, but are more likely to have become alcoholic due to the involvement of environmental components such as bad parents or thrill-seeking.

They believe the alcoholic needs to see there is a problem there somewhere with their drinking, and then take positive action. Understanding that their lives will be better without booze, they leave it behind and stay sober using purposeful activities, and understand that relapses are likely to occur and are part of the road to recovery, but in seeking recovery the alcoholic must avoid any activities which would compromise Scriptural principles.

Interesting, hadn't learned any of that until now.