Really dreading step 4 with my sponsor tomorrow
Sally1009
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 467
Really dreading step 4 with my sponsor tomorrow
Hi folks
As Ive mentioned before, I have have had some problems with my sponsor before. I managed to ride them out however. But last week we spent four hours just going through the preparation for step for. She knows i have problems with my back for sitting still for long periods. I asked her hour long roughly would step 4 4 take? She said anywhere between 2 and ten hours. She asked, among other questions, "Was I prepared to submit to anything to achieve sobriety?"
This seems an odd way of putting things. And again I feel nervous and uncomfortable.
Any thoughts?
As Ive mentioned before, I have have had some problems with my sponsor before. I managed to ride them out however. But last week we spent four hours just going through the preparation for step for. She knows i have problems with my back for sitting still for long periods. I asked her hour long roughly would step 4 4 take? She said anywhere between 2 and ten hours. She asked, among other questions, "Was I prepared to submit to anything to achieve sobriety?"
This seems an odd way of putting things. And again I feel nervous and uncomfortable.
Any thoughts?
Member of SMART Recovery
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,722
If what you are saying is that you don't trust her, then maybe you would be better off doing your fifth with someone who has a legal obligation to keep your information confidential. A clergy person or a licensed professional (psychologist, social worker, etc.).
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
I did a fifth with my priest. I intend to do another... Those Catholics make it so easy.... LOL.
But seriously, do not be worried. It is actually a liberating experience. Shining light on all that stuff... Understanding, maybe for the first time, why you do some of the things you'd do, feel the way you do.
If your back hurts... Get up and take a walk, stretch, get some fresh air. Plan on it, in fact, reflect on how it's going... And if the answer is not positive, break it off for another time, or another sponsor.
But seriously, do not be worried. It is actually a liberating experience. Shining light on all that stuff... Understanding, maybe for the first time, why you do some of the things you'd do, feel the way you do.
If your back hurts... Get up and take a walk, stretch, get some fresh air. Plan on it, in fact, reflect on how it's going... And if the answer is not positive, break it off for another time, or another sponsor.
Guest
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 189
a fourth step doesn't have to be sitting down till it's done. If your sponsor understands your back problem they'll let you get up and stretch for awhile. Just make sure though that you're not using your back issue as an excuse to get away from doing that fourth step. My father is the same with his back but he never walked away when doing the steps. get up, walk a bit then sit back down, if your serious about going on with your steps in recovery then it shouldn't matter how long it takes to do a fourth. Just remember that even though you do the step.... doesn't mean that your done for life the steps are life long. Also I was reading people asking why would you trust another alcholic this way? Well... why not? When I relasped I didn't mind my sponsor letting my fellow members know because I needed all the support of the group. going to a psychologist isn't a better idea. They don't understand what your really going through. thats why alcoholics help other alcoholics. I've never heard to do such a thing.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 14
Nervous and uncomfortable ..... I think you really have to ask yourself if it's step 4, or if it's your sponsor. I would address one or both concerns.
As for submitting to sobriety, I can relate to that. Sometimes we have to put our egos in our pocket and follow a course of discipline.
However, myself, lol - if someone asked me that, I'd probably say "No, I'll submit to sobriety - I just won't submit to you!" and walk away.
As for submitting to sobriety, I can relate to that. Sometimes we have to put our egos in our pocket and follow a course of discipline.
However, myself, lol - if someone asked me that, I'd probably say "No, I'll submit to sobriety - I just won't submit to you!" and walk away.
Originally Posted by Sally1009 
Hi folks
As Ive mentioned before, I have have had some problems with my sponsor before. I managed to ride them out however. But last week we spent four hours just going through the preparation for step for. She knows i have problems with my back for sitting still for long periods. I asked her hour long roughly would step 4 4 take? She said anywhere between 2 and ten hours. She asked, among other questions, "Was I prepared to submit to anything to achieve sobriety?"
This seems an odd way of putting things. And again I feel nervous and uncomfortable.
Any thoughts?
As Ive mentioned before, I have have had some problems with my sponsor before. I managed to ride them out however. But last week we spent four hours just going through the preparation for step for. She knows i have problems with my back for sitting still for long periods. I asked her hour long roughly would step 4 4 take? She said anywhere between 2 and ten hours. She asked, among other questions, "Was I prepared to submit to anything to achieve sobriety?"
This seems an odd way of putting things. And again I feel nervous and uncomfortable.
Any thoughts?
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 449
In AA the term "submit" is in regards to this simple program. And being willing to go to any lengths is part of that.
The actual Fourth Step process of listing resentment, fear, and our interaction with members of the opposite sex (or I presume whomever we might have expectations of a sexual relationship if one is a homosexual) and harms done to others is between YOU and the Power Greater Than Yourself you've come to believe in, in Step 2 and turn your will (thoughts) and life (actions) over to the care of in Step 3.
That's it.
Step 5 is another story. And I more or less told a dude he could stop sponsoring me because I was uncomfortable with his pressing need to know "my secrets" or whatever. Looking back, he meant well, but he felt way over the top in his approach then. When I went to a priest, then told him I went to a priest - he said that wasn't what the book was talking about. Actually, it is and it's in there "in black and white".
I was raised Catholic, I had a firm purpose of Amendment, and a contrite heart - and sought absolution. I did my first Fifth Step with a Priest.
Then my eyes and heart were open to even more - as a result of my fourth that were in my fourth. I've done more "Fifth Steps" with a sponsor.
"The exact nature of ...."
Am I envious ? Too prideful ? Too vain ? etc...
Anyway bless you and take heart. It's not designed to harm you and the hurt and pain you might feel during it are nothing more than growing pains.
Good Luck
The actual Fourth Step process of listing resentment, fear, and our interaction with members of the opposite sex (or I presume whomever we might have expectations of a sexual relationship if one is a homosexual) and harms done to others is between YOU and the Power Greater Than Yourself you've come to believe in, in Step 2 and turn your will (thoughts) and life (actions) over to the care of in Step 3.
That's it.
Step 5 is another story. And I more or less told a dude he could stop sponsoring me because I was uncomfortable with his pressing need to know "my secrets" or whatever. Looking back, he meant well, but he felt way over the top in his approach then. When I went to a priest, then told him I went to a priest - he said that wasn't what the book was talking about. Actually, it is and it's in there "in black and white".
I was raised Catholic, I had a firm purpose of Amendment, and a contrite heart - and sought absolution. I did my first Fifth Step with a Priest.
Then my eyes and heart were open to even more - as a result of my fourth that were in my fourth. I've done more "Fifth Steps" with a sponsor.
"The exact nature of ...."
Am I envious ? Too prideful ? Too vain ? etc...
Anyway bless you and take heart. It's not designed to harm you and the hurt and pain you might feel during it are nothing more than growing pains.
Good Luck
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,960
Step 4 is a moral inventory, not a list of bad things you've done. The goal is to find out your pattern of behavior & fears. It is not a confession. Clarence Snyder, one of the first 40, has speaker tapes online and information on how to work the steps.
Going to any lengths? Sure. Making sure Step 3 is looked at, yes. Submitting? Not so certain.
My sponsor never read my 4th step. My sponsor shared some of theirs with me. Some things were not discussed as the pattern was quite clear. Prayer was very important. I felt profound relief during my 5th step.
Going to any lengths? Sure. Making sure Step 3 is looked at, yes. Submitting? Not so certain.
My sponsor never read my 4th step. My sponsor shared some of theirs with me. Some things were not discussed as the pattern was quite clear. Prayer was very important. I felt profound relief during my 5th step.
Sally1009
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 467
Thanks everyone for your feedback. All very reassuring. I am happy to say I have now not only 'done' step 4 with my sponsor, but step 5 too! It took five hours, and afterwards I felt physically shattered, but emotionally lightened. I took your advice, and politely insisted on regular breaks to walk about, stretch etc.
So I feel good today. My sponsor isnt ideal in that she is a fundamentalist, and a bit rigid, but the positive side of that is that she balances my chaotic, structureless personality. So all in all I needn't have worried. Thank you for your support.
So I feel good today. My sponsor isnt ideal in that she is a fundamentalist, and a bit rigid, but the positive side of that is that she balances my chaotic, structureless personality. So all in all I needn't have worried. Thank you for your support.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Sally......you'll find most "aa related questions" will get the most action and the most knowledgeable replies in the Alcoholism-12 Step Support - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
"Was I prepared to submit to anything to achieve sobriety?"
This seems an odd way of putting things. And again I feel nervous and uncomfortable.
I'll submit that, as that first drink was rolling down our throats..........everything felt wonderful and at peace in the world.......and we couldn't have been more wrong. If all one has done is lived their live with untreated alcoholism as the norm, getting rid of that 'bad stuff' will, at first, feel weird and will seem uncomfortable.
how can anyone trust another alcoholic with your secrets? Anyone of us could one day relapse and break confidentiality...
A big part of why we admit to ourselves, to God and to another human........and a big part of why we continue on with the steps that follow.......and a big part of why we go back through the steps on a regular basis........ is because you get FREE from that stuff. It becomes part of your past but it doesn't define you anymore. It's not who you are anymore. Other peoples judgements of you (these supposed ppl who may hear from the sponsor who could potentially relapse and during said relapse mistakenly spill the beans) just won't effect you like they do/used to.
Hell, in the couple thousand posts I've put up here, I'd bet 75 - 95% of my past and current 4th steps have gone out into cyberspace for the whole world to read........possibly forever. Those things don't own me anymore though.......I couldn't hardly care less who knows them......and I don't really care what ppl think about me because of what I've done.... that's one helluva gift that I didn't expect from working the AA program - getting free from a lot of the codependency that's tooooooooootally dominated my life since I was....oh.......5yrs old!
It's ok to feel nervous......just don't let that nervousness divert you from walking the path of sobriety - cuz alcoholism is a cunning little bugger and it'll use that nervousness to take you back out.
....and I'd guess what she might have been referring to in her question was that writing a thorough and fearless moral inventory usually IS an exercise in overcoming fear, nervousness and anxiety.....and that's why a lot of ppl skip it....and for an alcoholic who's in need of the 12 steps to recover.....NOT doing all 12 is a disaster waiting to happen.
"Was I prepared to submit to anything to achieve sobriety?"
This seems an odd way of putting things. And again I feel nervous and uncomfortable.
I'll submit that, as that first drink was rolling down our throats..........everything felt wonderful and at peace in the world.......and we couldn't have been more wrong. If all one has done is lived their live with untreated alcoholism as the norm, getting rid of that 'bad stuff' will, at first, feel weird and will seem uncomfortable.
how can anyone trust another alcoholic with your secrets? Anyone of us could one day relapse and break confidentiality...
A big part of why we admit to ourselves, to God and to another human........and a big part of why we continue on with the steps that follow.......and a big part of why we go back through the steps on a regular basis........ is because you get FREE from that stuff. It becomes part of your past but it doesn't define you anymore. It's not who you are anymore. Other peoples judgements of you (these supposed ppl who may hear from the sponsor who could potentially relapse and during said relapse mistakenly spill the beans) just won't effect you like they do/used to.
Hell, in the couple thousand posts I've put up here, I'd bet 75 - 95% of my past and current 4th steps have gone out into cyberspace for the whole world to read........possibly forever. Those things don't own me anymore though.......I couldn't hardly care less who knows them......and I don't really care what ppl think about me because of what I've done.... that's one helluva gift that I didn't expect from working the AA program - getting free from a lot of the codependency that's tooooooooootally dominated my life since I was....oh.......5yrs old!
It's ok to feel nervous......just don't let that nervousness divert you from walking the path of sobriety - cuz alcoholism is a cunning little bugger and it'll use that nervousness to take you back out.
....and I'd guess what she might have been referring to in her question was that writing a thorough and fearless moral inventory usually IS an exercise in overcoming fear, nervousness and anxiety.....and that's why a lot of ppl skip it....and for an alcoholic who's in need of the 12 steps to recover.....NOT doing all 12 is a disaster waiting to happen.
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