Terminally Unique

I'll assume you mean criminal activity which places the public at risk, such as driving a 5,000 lb vehicle or beating up the wife and kids while drunk. Such activity should absolutely be punished, otherwise people will keep doing it. In cases where alcohol is clearly the determining factor, however, leniency could be shown towards people willing to actually surrender their drinking license. I posted a scenario in another forum:

Drinking License —

FT

Interesting.

The only involuntary user of alcohol in large quantities is a fetus, at least in the initial stages. With few logical exceptions.

Continued voluntary use of alcohol in large quantities is what produces the pathological condition some like to call "alcohoism."

I mean, alcohol was once used medically, and you can still find it in elixirs not intended for use in large quantities. And babies are given wine in ritual circumcision, but not in large quantities. Stuff like that.

The other side of the coin is that MANY diseases are treated with disdain by society. In fact, MOST diseases that present "unpleasant" societal effects are treated with disdain. Tourette's comes to mind. Even less obvious ills are feared and despised. People are afraid of "catching" cancer and diabetes, and truly contagious diseases are feared and ostracized (leprosy for one), sexually transmitted diseases are certainly ostracized, and the more "popular" disease of obesity is a BIG one (pardon the pun).

Yes, society wants its populace "clean" and "healthy", whatever those things mean. And the logic that plays out in how people are treated by society who are not considered to be either of these things unfortunately comes down to the lowest common denominator of intelligence and reason of our population.

InsertNameHere

Just throwing my two cents in,

I would say that this is not ludicrous, it all depends on your point of view, cultural standards, and how far a person or people are willing to go to back their beliefs. For instance you seem to think that alcoholism is a disease, alright, got it, that is your belief. If another disagrees with you does that make their beliefs ludicrous? Obviously not because we are having this discussion so you are open to interpretation on this specific subject. But I think TU is trying to show you that everything is relative to your specific point of view by mentioning the above circumstances where others might disagree with you. For instance there are people out there that view sexual orientation as a choice and think that homosexual people are mentally disturbed (scared straight camps for youth). So according to them sexual orientation is a disease that needs to be eradicated.

The same can be said for religion. Most people are peaceful, understanding individuals that understand that not everyone has to agree with their particular choice in how to worship god, higher power, or what have you. But it wasn't all that long ago, and in some countries still is the case to a lesser degree, that it was worship how I say to worship or I will kill you. I know that these are extreme situations but alcohol can be viewed in the same light.

You believe that being an alcoholic is a disease and therefore a mental disorder and needs to be treated by professionals and more properly understood/addressed by society especially our justice system. There are people that believe that being an alcoholic is a morally wrong choice and should be punished.

There are people that believe being homosexual is a disease and therefore a mental disorder and needs to be treated by professionals and more properly understood/addressed by society especially our justice system. There are also people that believe that being a homosexual is a morally wrong choice and should be punished.


I dont think that anyone views religion is a mental disorder but there are people that think that other people have been "brainwashed" into a diffrent religion and therefore need to be treated by professionals (clergy/excorsized) and more properly understood/addressed by society especially our justice system.

I am not agreeing with any of the above I haven't made up my mind yet but I have always had a talent for seeing either side of an argument, (part of the reason that I can never make up my mind). I am only saying that "Voluntary deviant behavior" is a fairly loose term and can mean many things to many people. In the circles that I travel in it wasn't all that long ago when you weren't "cool" until you got your first DUI. Obviously that has changed but what is "Voluntary deviant behavior" to you is not to someone else or vice a versa what is "Voluntary deviant behavior" to someone else is not to you.

Sorry for temporarily high jacking the thread I just wanted to point out that most things like this are entirely up to a person’s perspective and personal beliefs and that it is the amalgamation of the countries beliefs that make the government’s policies (or at least we hope so).

In closing I like TU and blackoutgirls way of looking at it. I think that I have a tendency to get addicted to just about anything. be it caffeine, nicotine, bighting my fingernails, playing computer games. Certain people just have a larger tendency to get addicted more quickly than others. There are advantages to this I suppose but then there are obvious disadvantages. Also I believe that it is a conscious choice and voluntary action to drink, I am not insane, I do not have alien hand syndrome, and my arm does not reach out and grab a beer unless I tell it too. In my opinion the simple fact is that I picked up beer because I enjoyed being intoxicated. I went back to it after deciding to quit because I didn't really want to quit. Yes I have a tendency to get addicted to things easily, (one reason I have never played WOW I am afraid it will consume my soul) but at the same time I have a choice to not continue with habits that have negative consequences. At the same time I could choose to say F it and keep drinking (I've done that too), it all depends on my priorities.

INH

NYCDoglvr

Alcoholism is classified as a mental illness ... it isn't a disease of the elbow, it is the self-destructiveness of obsessive drinking despite catastrophic consequences. In my distorted alcoholic mind denial rules my life. Yes, I certainly know that each day I made a decision to pick up alcohol. (One big surprise in recovery was learning I don't HAVE to drink!). So one day at a time I don't pick up a drink now. And once I put down the bottle the hard part begins: dealing with the distorted thinking that almost resulted in my death. It's a process, it's progress, not perfection.

When alcoholics stop inflicting damage on other people, causing accidents and screwing up, that may be possible. A panel of drug experts rated alcohol as being the worst drug because we take other people down with us.

BackToSquareOne

Failedtaper, that was a very well thought out thesis. It may start out as a voluntary behavior but addicton to drugs/alcohol can morph into something much more. The pathological/disease phase exhibited by hardcore alcoholics/addicts is not a rational state by any stretch of the imagination.