awuh1

If you look at the early lists of AA’s and study who stayed, you’ll discover 50% plus did.
Here is an early list. hindsfoot.org/lorarch.html That’s truly remarkable given the lack of long term sobriety in the group (nobody with 5 years at the time the BB was written).
As for current stats you might want to check this. hindsfoot.org/lorarch.html
Though it says 36% stay in the first year, drumstick may be interested to note that 32% still attend after 20 years. Cannot recall where I saw the 50% + stats but it’s been my experience through observation that it is at least that. I’m also assuming that a certain number of them went fishing.

Religion is the guy in church thinking about fishing. Spirituality is the guy fishing thinking about God.

RobbyRobot

Awesome.

TheEnd

It depends on what works for you. I go to AA meetings, not as many as I suggested, but that works for me and I'm sober today. I also use other methods of recovery, such as racing for recovery and going to a therapist once a month. I hear lots of people say all you need is AA and the Big Book, but why limit myself?

Some people stay die hard AAers and some people drift off. As long as you stay sober, I don't think it matters what level of involvement you have. I must say it's nice going to AA meetings and seeing people with 20+ years of sobriety, it gives you something to look forward to. I don't think it would be quite as inspiring seeing people in AA with only small amounts of sobriety. So I'm glad that a great deal of people do stick around.

If you reach a point and you're not happy going to meetings then stop. It will just be counter productive to your recovery to force yourself to do something that you don't want to do. AA teaches us to live a certain set of principles. These principles don't disappear because you stop going to meetings, they become ingrained in who you are as a person.

Sobriety is a journey, not a destination. Your path is your path.

simian66

I beg to differ awuh1. I am looking at early statistics here. For example, a letter I have found from the AA Philadelphia Group dated 14 December 1940 states that of 99 alcoholics attending the group, only 5 made it to beyond one year of sobriety. That means that the Philadelphia group actually had a five percent success rate. Five percent is also the usual rate of spontaneous remission in untreated alcoholics. So the real success rate of the Philadelphia A.A. group, above and beyond normal spontaneous remission, was zero.

RobbyRobot

You know what, I'm thinking I don't like the breakdown and spread of the numbers I gave over how many meetings and gestalt therapy groups I have attended over the past ten plus twenty years. So I'm amending my post to just say my attendence in both AA and gestalt therapy meetings over the past thirty years combined in total has been in the thousands and let it stand at that without getting into the 10/20 split.

Yeah, it is difficult to remember exact years of attendence through three decades, because I was so inconsistent with my attendence, so it was eating at my sense of accuracy to just leave it as posted with that 10/20 breakdown. Feels better to have that spread more generally throughout. Certainly I have attended less progressively as the years go along, in any case.

So thanks, it dosen't make any difference one way or the other to anybody else really, just except to how I remember it being spread out. Of course my last gestalt therapy group was indeed yesterday <grin>

langkah

A reread of that material is called for Simian. The 99 didn't get to a year because the report was made after 10 months, a time period during which 70 had no slips at all, 13 were recovering after having slipped, and 16 of the 99 were back to drinking.

The experience the Philadelpia group was reporting was that 3 out of 4 who tried were getting results, and that they hadn't killed any of them...

keithj

I would suspect that the roughly 5% recovery rate holds true in AA today across many groups.

If lack of power over alcohol is the problem, there is nothing about attending some meetings that is going to give me some sufficient power. Therefore, it is not surprising that the recovery rates cited match the 'spontaneous remission' rates (whatever that is).

The important stat, though, is what is the recovery rate for those that take the 12 Steps as outlined in the BB. That is the program of AA. And that recovery rate is the same as it's always been as well, darn near 100%.

It's like asking 'What is the recovery rate of those that get more exercise?' While a good thing, and useful for some, exercise does nothing to give me any more power over alcohol. Really, the stat you posted is in indicator of the recovery rate for those not taking the Steps, and not surprisingly, it's the same rate as doing nothing.

We who love AA, and have experienced those recovery rates near 100% with the people with whom we share the program, might want to be concerned when AA isn't doing a good job of communicating the solution we have found.

onlythetruth

It is true that the recovery rate of people who quit drinking is 100%....but that statement can't be used to claim any superiority on the part of AA, because the same thing is true no matter what method one uses to quit drinking.

100% of the people who quit drinking using the SMART Recovery tools....quit drinking.

100% of the people who quit drinking using AVRT...quit drinking.

100% of the people who only come to SR .... quit drinking.

There is no "right" or "best" way to quit drinking.

langkah

'It is true that the recovery rate of people who quit drinking is 100%....but that statement can't be used to claim any superiority on the part of AA, because the same thing is true no matter what method one uses to quit drinking.'

Absolutely and inarguably true.

If someone stays abstinent, comfortable, and functions well as a productive member of society with any method that is not harmful to their physical, mental or emotional well-being for the rest of their lives, then who in their right mind would raise a stink about that?

That's the goal all programs and methods have for their members as the ideal outcome. I've never understood the reasoning behind those who complain about how I or anyone else stay sober for many decades.

A good friend of mine turned 40 years sober today. Having heard his story that's a very good thing for those he would have affected if his drinking had continued all these years. If anyone has a problem that he got this result by doing all the AA stuff then I suggest they need to enlarge their viewpoint to allow for things like this without experiencing angst, to the point where they can be somewhat happy for the good fortune that may befall others. Life is just easier that way. He got sober at age 23, so it's very possible he may see 60 or even 70 years sober in AA. People from across the US are congratulating him today online, many who sobered up in the same group around the same time.

Pretty cool to see what can happen at the cost of a little effort.

onlythetruth

I agree. I have no issue whatsoever with anyone's chosen path....it is the right to freely choose that concerns me.

The thing I take issue with, is when someone tries to suggest that their path is inherently superior to anyone else's....or, worse, attempts to prevent other approaches from being readily available.

Nirvana1

I believe a major road block for an untreated alcoholic is his right to free will. Alcoholics that use their free will to make decisions that they think is best usually doesn't work out for them.

RobbyRobot

I understand what you're saying, I think, how self-will run riot sorta thing works?

The thing for me though is the slavery I felt with my alcoholism, and freedom of my self will was a huge experience for me when drunk. In my surrender to a higher power, in my surrender to the hopelessness of my alcoholic condition, I also experienced the freedom of having my self will in expression and action.

Knowing I fully and entirely gave of my free choice into surrender was the winning postion for me. I cant give what I dont have, so I needed to have that complete self will freely experienced to give from it.

langkah

'The thing I take issue with, is when someone tries to suggest that their path is inherently superior to anyone else's....or, worse, attempts to prevent other approaches from being readily available.'

If you ever do find someone preventing other programs from being available or suggesting their path is superior, or telling people there is no baby in that program's bathwater, then you surely should chastise them mercilessly.

Given the number of posts and people here, you're bound to see that at some point. I'll back you up when you climb all over them.

DayTrader

direct hit.......you sunk my battle ship!

and Truth, you missed the point. Keith didn't say "those who quit drinking in AA......quit drinking." He said darn near 100% of the people who quit trying to quit drinking and just worked the 12 steps instead recovered - a distinct difference.

I also saw no claims of "superiority," lol. I know you fancy yourself a crusader for "other paths" of recovery but I've not seen anyone suggest AA is better in this thread.....so why bring it up, yanno? Let's focus on the the topic at hand.

Terminally Unique

I would wager that many religious people might disagree with this.

Do you consider spirituality superior to religion?

Dee74

just to remind folks - the original post and topic of this thread...

D

Mark75

Sorry Dee..


Absolutely... religion, to me, is simply a/the way to spirituality.

And to the OP..

No... Nothing has to be for life. Just relax, take it one day at a time, one meeting at a time... when I get nervous about that, having to make it my whole life, or forever... I remind myself....it's only to the next meeting.

onlythetruth

I am curious to know from others experience; in a sense that if a persons' primary tool for recovery becomes AA, will that person then have to be involved in the program for the rest of their life and if they are not will they eventually succumb to their alcoholism without it?

From my experience, the answers to your questions are "no" and "no".

Zebra1275

I have no idea if I'm going to be involved with AA for the rest of my life. But I know that I'm going to go to a meeting I enjoy in a couple days. I also am pretty confident that I won't drink before then. Right now AA has a 100% success rate for me, and that's all I really care about.

I was away on business earlier in the week and went to a meeting in another town. One of the guys introduced himself and said that he was 84 years old. I don't know if I will go to a meeting when I'm 84, but I hope I live long enough to have the option.

adore79

i think for me the specific things that helped me the most to become sober are the things that i will keep forever, or in other words, if all aspects of AA were important in your recovery you probably will want to keep all of AA and keep going for a long time. if only certain things in it were improtant, like finding spirituality for the first time, you might leave AA but keep the spirituality aspects close to yourself for the rest of your life. and the mental and emotional changes and new problem solving skills and coping strategies that have to occur to stay sober, those are things i will most definitely try to hold on to forever. im not an AA person but i went to meetings for months and i learned a lot of good stuff there but i think if a person goes into the program with at least an ounce of hope that it might help them that they will be much more successful than people who truly dont believe anyone or anything can end their misery. *on an unrelated note, this thread made me wonder what alcoholics did to get sober long ago before 12 step programs were created. id imagine not many of them got sober and maybe they didnt care. i dont know.