doggonecarl

I was browsing the web for recovery information and stumbled upon Stanton Peele's Addiction Website. There I read the following unbelievable statement:

"The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism made a starling declaration at its Web site in 2010: “Alcoholism isn’t what it used to be.” The agency based this on the repeated finding – which Stanton has pointed out for decades – that most people overcome alcoholism without treatment and do so without ceasing drinking."

Most people overcome alcoholism! And drink! I couldn't believe the NIAAA would say something so careless. When I went to the link the Peele site provided, I found that Peele had paraphased. But I was still surprised by what I read:

"Twenty years after onset of alcohol dependence, about three-fourths of individuals are in full recovery; more than half of those who have fully recovered drink at low-risk levels without symptoms of alcohol dependence."

Half of the recovered alcoholics drink? Not in my experience. What about yours?

Dee74

Well, that kind of inferred 'advice' - that I can perhaps drink again and 'be normal'- nearly killed me once....thats pretty 'high risk' by my standards....

I'm not going to give it a second chance.
D

DrivenHeart85

Yeah, I could see having 2 drinks a week after having 20 years of sober time but it would depend on many things like my spiritual health, emotional health, physical health, etc. Also, I don't see why I'd want to though because alcohol is a low grade poison and tastes like crap. If I were 20 years sober, I think I'd have those ideas ironed out by then. lol

Sober for Good by Ann Fletcher also states that a very slim percent of the population of recovered alcoholics can do it after at least 10 years of sobriety. But I shouldn't say "alcoholics" because if you're in AA and an "alcoholic" it's never advised, but if you just consider yourself "addicted to alcohol" you live according to your own rules, so then you certainly could try it if you decide to do so.

onlythetruth

Well, here the thing: the research does show that non-abstinent recovery is very real. Here's a link to the full study results:

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publicatio...-2/131-142.pdf

Here's a brief snip from the study results: This analysis is based on data from the 2001–2002 National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions (NESARC), in which data were collected in personal interviews conducted with one randomly selected adult in each sample household. A subset of the NESARC sample (total n = 43,093), consisting of 4,422 U.S. adults age 18 and older classified with PPY [previous year] DSM–IV alcohol dependence [not the milder category of alcohol abuse], were evaluated with respect to their past-year recovery status: past-year dependence, partial remission, full remission, asymptomatic risk drinking, abstinent recovery (AR), and nonabstinent recovery (NR). Correlates of past-year status were examined in bivariate analyses and using multivariate logistic regression models. Findings: Of people classified with PPY alcohol dependence, 25.0 percent were still classified as dependent in the past year; 27.3 percent were classified as being in partial remission; 11.8 percent were asymptomatic risk drinkers who demonstrated a pattern of drinking that put them at risk of relapse; 17.7 percent were low-risk drinkers; and 18.2 percent were abstainers. Only 25.5 percent of people with PPY dependence ever received treatment.

So.....what do I make of this, me, who has made an irrevocable commitment never to drink again?

I make of it that non-abstinent recovery exists. That's what the studies show. For me, non-abstinent recovery didn't work, didn't happen, wasn't going to happen, but if someone else, having been previously addicted to alcohol, can drink again, that's just fine with me. It doesn't threaten me, doesn't change my decision, doesn't make me mad, doesn't make me want to prove 'em wrong. It just is what it is. I accept both that I can't drink, and maybe the next guy CAN.

DrivenHeart85

And I think if the idea of drinking again excites you, that's a sign you shouldn't try it. The excitement is your addiction still knocking around in your head. Maybe you'll get to the point one day where you won't be like a "dog with bacon" over the thought of alcohol in your hands again and that's probably when you get to the point where you've matured enough to handle low-risk drinking. When or whether or not you'll get to that point? Who knows.

Sugah

Lots of self-identified "alcoholics" aren't alcoholic at all. They may go through a patch of hard drinking or problem drinking, but once the problem resolves or they grow up (think excessive college drinking), drinking isn't an issue any longer--take it or leave it alone. For real alcoholics, the problems really start when we put down, or try to put down the drink.

Until there's some sort of scientific test for alcoholism, dangerous statements and statistics will persist.

This alcoholic can't drink, period. Thankfully, I've had that obsession removed, so it's no longer an issue.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

SDSurfn

I'm an alcoholic.


I don't understand the concept of "low-risk" drinking.


I don't understand the concept of "2 drinks a week".


If I have one drink, then it's another, and then another, and then 7 more, and even then I'm not done by a long shot. I'm not stopping till I pass out.


The next morning, to get rid of the hangover and anxiety I'll have another one. And then I'm off on another multi-day binge. Welcome to my world.


I know I need support to get off this crazy train. If "most people overcome alcoholism without treatment (support)" good for them.


I'm not most people. Alcohol is going to kill me, sooner rather than later. I'm almost 45 and have a fatty liver and blood pressure through the roof.


My old "friend" of 29 years is no longer a friend. He's trying to kill me instead.

-SD

Terminally Unique

Most people do indeed quit without treatment, just as many drink themselves to death. It should be noted, though, that Stanton Peele is essentially a never-addicted anti-temperance crusader who views addiction as a sociological and/or psychological phenomenon, hence his fascination with moderate drinking. He tends to view abstinence-only models as reminiscent of prohibition.

onlythetruth

Well, this study didn't allow the participants to diagnose themselves. The DSM-IV has specific criteria for what is and is not alcohol dependence, and those criteria were used to screen participants. There wasn't some mistake, and it isn't that the researchers didn't understand the difference between a real alcoholic and a fake one. And talking about one's "experience" as a way of dismissing the studies isn't valid, particularly if that experience comes from hanging out in recovery group meetings or support forums. People who are drinking at safe levels are not going show up at those places.

No, the fact is simply that some people who were once actively, floridly addicted, just like I once was, can indeed drink again. It does seem that those who were more severely addicted have a lower likelihood of this, but that's not universal.

I know this bothers a lot of people and really, there's almost no topic on this forum that brings out more ire than this one. But it just isn't an issue for me personally. I keep what other people can do separate from what I, personally, can do or am interested in doing. After what I went through with alcohol, there is just no freaking way in the world that I am going to drink that stuff again. It doesn't bother me in the least if the next guy can do it.

onlythetruth

Yep, and I can't say I'm a big Stanton fan. But, this wasn't his study.

Terminally Unique

I don't doubt that some people go back to low-risk drinking after being dependent. I have seen it, although from what I saw, those people tend to drink very rarely, as in perhaps once a month. Not quite the idea of "moderate drinking" that your average booze-hound entertains.

Deserto

Well the unacknowledged factor is how much emotional and spiritual energy goes into those non-abstinent recovered drinkers. Hell, I could claim to be one. I was drinking daily about 50 days ago. In those fifty days I've had a few slips, some big some very small, none lasting more than a day.

If I'm only having a drink or two every ten days, am I recovered? I don't think so. And it doesn't seem worth the emotional ups and downs to try for that kind of recovery. God bless those who can.

Itchy

I have to clarify. First I still drink. If I didn't I would die . . of thirst. However I don't drink alcohol. I don't understand the fascination. If one wants to drink and try it again then by all means we can't stop them. However, I am reading here and elsewhere all the time how desperately people long for their alcohol. How they wish they could drink again.

Reading this is not dangerous to me at all. Because I don't drink alcohol period. I also stopped smoking cigarettes. I don't have any cravings for either anymore.

I had tens of thousands of alcoholic drinks in my life. What am I missing, the taste? I know what it tastes like. The buzz? I know what the buzz and the drunkenness feels like. The hangover? I knew that intimately because that was faced without enough alcohol to sedate it away until I drank that first morning drink as soon as the coffee was brewed as I could not take it straight and the hot coffee made it seem to rush into my system faster, much faster.

I will tell you what I miss. Nothing at all. Sobriety is only a kick for the first few months and then it becomes the norm.

What I am missing is the need for life to be exciting 24/7 or have a something to make it feel that way artificially. I am missing the need for my life to be perfect and happy in all ways or have something to sedate that away. I am missing the need to run away too. I have done that for many years and finally learned that no matter where I ran, or how far, I always brought myself along.

I have enough. I had enough the whole time.

My life will never be boring. I will have times when all that is happening are my own thoughts and my own company. Instead of fear of those I need them daily to reflect.

There will be sad times when I lose someone or some thing I love. I have learned that to avoid that I can avoid all love and warmth. I choose the pain for the love. I would rather have a broken heart than no heart at all. And I am of an age now and could be the one another may grieve over sometime sooner than later. I am OK with that when it is my time, but not one minute sooner than I can help.

That happens by not smoking or drinking at all for me. I am on a health kick now nothing more and nothing less, both physical and mental health.

I can't imagine trying to drink again after what I went through to quit, no matter how many are written or how many degrees the idiots that need to publish or perish write and have.

I know better for me. I lose nothing by being a non drinker of alcohol, not one thing.

I won't drink if God herself came down and slapped me on the forehead with her palm and said I was healed! Go forth and drink normally. I'd ask if I still had free will? She would say yes and I would say thanks, but no thanks. I loved raising my children but now want no children running around my house 24/7. It is my kids' turn to raise kids.

Just like my knees are not what they were and my downhill skiing days are pretty much over. I know how it felt even have the videos. But I choose not to do it any more.

My goodness there are lots of people posting about how they found proof that it can be done. Good go do it and report back in a year and let me know.

Because I don't care what you post, how you define terms, or what you are going through, I am, and will remain a non drinker.

I AM NOT DEPRIVED!

I SURVIVED!

I got over it.

Get over it!

OK, I am off my soapbox now.

SSIL75

I know a few people who seem to have 'gotten a grip' on their drinking. Seems to take a lot of energy but I guess it's worth it to them. Not to me

Ranger

Respectfully, I'm unconcerned with how much this topic doesn't affect those claiming to be recovering/recovered. Rather, my concern lies with how this type of conversation affects lurkers.

I'm envisioning Jim Carrey in 'Dumb and Dumber'...

"So you're sayin' there's a chance!!"

mattparadise

I'm sure some amount of people can go return to being moderate drinkers. I'm sure it's possible for me, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to test it. It's probably really hard to keep good statistics related to this subject. Just like how we never hear about smart criminals in the news. Smart criminals never get caught.

doggonecarl

Gosh, I would hate to think that some guest reading this thread who came to seek recovery would entertain the idea that maybe they didn't have a problem or that one day they might drink normally. Just the opposite. There have been so many relapses reported by members lately. Many stories of people returning to drinking after months...even years of sobriety and returning to the hell of addiction. So when I read what Peele and the NIAAA said about the ability of "recovered" alcoholics to drink, and in such high numbers, I was shocked.

I guess my hope would be that those "lurkers" that Ranger mentioned have read enough posts to see the struggle so many of us have gone through and see how those of us secure in our recovery don't even consider drinking.

Dee74

^ +1.

D

onlythetruth

I'm remembering a woman I sponsored years ago, when I was in AA.

She was absolutely transfixed, obsessed, with the fact that her father, who had once been addicted to alcohol, had quit drinking for ten years, then started drinking again and was a normal drinker.

"Well, HE was an alcoholic, and HE did it, so why can't I????" She was so worried about what someone else could do, that she couldn't look realistically at her own life and how it was being torn apart by alcohol (she was really badly off). I guess I learned from that, that paying attention to the next guy's drinking isn't particularly helpful when my own life is down around my ankles.

The different perspectives on this are interesting to me. But I do think that ultimately what is coming through loud and clear is that many of us with long term sobriety really don't give a damn about anyone else's ability to drink moderately.

Terminally Unique

All addicted people entertain those ideas. The thing is, people who drink moderately didn't learn how to do so from anyone else. They just can, although I imagine they have to keep an eye out for possible re-addiction, which can occur far more rapidly in the formerly-addicted.