heavy drinker forum
High on Life
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Been to Hell and Back
Posts: 1,157
Originally Posted by dawnrunner 
MY two older brothers -- now deceased -- could have written your post. They were both bound and determined to keep drinking and keep 'high functioning'.
They died of alcoholic cirrhosis at ages 53 and 56. Their illnesses and deaths were miserable and tortuous for everyone especially themselves. They had lost their wives, their children and all contact, their jobs (in one case; in the other, the termination was about to happen when the illness became terminal), their joy of life, their own selves.
I got the job of clearing up the house after the older of them, as I was his executor (estate settler). I got to see the way he had redesigned an essentially invalid house: toilet seat for someone who can't quite sit down properly, hand holds installed for someone who can't stand up stably, medications for leg sores, butt sores, etc.; places to vomit in the bedroom.
It was a worse death than any dog should die.
My younger older brother died in a pool of strange liquid he had excreted when his liver and kidneys both failed. A professional cleaning squad had to be called for that death scene.
I miss them both every day. They had so much more to offer.
I really hope you reconsider your commitment to a lifetime of heavy drinking and a lonely early death. Best wishes and I apologize for the dankness of this post. It is a sore subject.
They died of alcoholic cirrhosis at ages 53 and 56. Their illnesses and deaths were miserable and tortuous for everyone especially themselves. They had lost their wives, their children and all contact, their jobs (in one case; in the other, the termination was about to happen when the illness became terminal), their joy of life, their own selves.
I got the job of clearing up the house after the older of them, as I was his executor (estate settler). I got to see the way he had redesigned an essentially invalid house: toilet seat for someone who can't quite sit down properly, hand holds installed for someone who can't stand up stably, medications for leg sores, butt sores, etc.; places to vomit in the bedroom.
It was a worse death than any dog should die.
My younger older brother died in a pool of strange liquid he had excreted when his liver and kidneys both failed. A professional cleaning squad had to be called for that death scene.
I miss them both every day. They had so much more to offer.
I really hope you reconsider your commitment to a lifetime of heavy drinking and a lonely early death. Best wishes and I apologize for the dankness of this post. It is a sore subject.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: God's Grace
Posts: 2,464
You certainly have arrived at the right place...no laughs here. Keep reading and posting...you may change your mind after seeing alot of the similarities as well as how horrific this disease is. Thanks for posting and hope you will give recovery a try.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Overseas... on the shore of an uncharted desert isle.
Posts: 254
Originally Posted by bike
hi everyone. i was looking for a heavy drinker forum, and this site was one of the top google search results. having looked around for a few mins, i can tell that this forum is more aimed at people who want to stop drinking. can anyone recommend a section of this site, or perhaps another forum, which is more aimed at people like me, heavy drinkers who have accepted that they can't get along without alcohol, but at the same time want to take the harm reduction route, and stay high functioning.
thanks for the help.
thanks for the help.
However, I believe you definitely also ought to read the wiki on MM and in particular, do a quick search on what happened to its founder, Audrey Kishline. That may cause you to re-consider and perhaps better understand why so many of us former heavy drinkers are so negative about the concept of successful "moderation". Maybe it works for some "heavy drinkers" but not the heavy drinkers that I know... (or most of us know).
Since you are currently drinking and haven't clearly indicated you want to stop completely (this forum is for those who have arrived at the decision to quit drinking alcohol altogether - perhaps a decision you may come to later) but looking at possible solutions leading to quitting or moderating significantly, you might wish to look at a method I took a look at in case my first attempt to quit failed ( I quit Feb 2009): it's the Sinclair Method using the drug Naltrexone or Nalmefene under a physician's supervision.
Oh yeah, and I almost forgot ... even if you have not made the decision to quit drinking, you may still wish to check out an AA meeting. The meetings would be labeled as "OPEN MEETING".
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3
Thanks for your responses, everyone. I appreciate the time and effort you all put into answering my question. I realize that everybody's story is unique, and that, as ForeverDecember noted, a recovery forum for self identifying alcoholics is bound to yield partial feedback.
Having said that, I need to make one point exceedingly clear: what most of you fail to realize is that, like with anything in life, things aren't black & white with alcohol. It isn't all bad, or all good. Why demonize something just because you didn't have the discipline to use it in a way that kept your life on track? "Everything in moderation, including moderation", as the saying goes. People do all kinds of things in life because they get enjoyment out of them - those activities are part of what makes life worth living. And yes, a lot of these activities shorten peoples lives, or contribute problems, diminish health, or carry any other number of negative consequences. But, without those things, people just wouldn't be who they are. For example, I ride bikes. Motorcycles are dangerous, everyone knows that. But, to me, the risks are worth what I get in return. I get something from this activity, how it makes me feel, that I can't find anywhere else. If I stop riding, the chance that I will die or be crippled in a crash will decrease. But I also will stop being myself. Riding is part of who I am, it's part of what makes life worth living, for me. So I do it. Other people base jump, climb mountains, go bull running.... and the list goes on. Another example is diet. People know that, in general, eating certain types of food is bad for you. And yet, what would life be without fast food, fried stuff, milkshakes, chips... Yes, perhaps you'd live an extra few years if you gave up all of that. But would it be worth it? An extension of this point is the scientific fact that caloric restriction dramatically extends life. Eating a quarter less food on a daily basis than the typical "western" diet contains would extend a person's life by many years. No long term studies have been conducted on humans, but mice fed on the caloric restriction regimen have a 30-40% increased lifespan over mice who eat til they're sated. And yet, how many of us will deprive ourselves of the pleasures of eating in order to not die 10 or more years too early?
But let me not get too far away from the point I'm trying to make. I love drinking. In the 13 years I drank, I've added irreplaceable texture and experiences to my life that I haven't found elsewhere. I can think back to the good times and drunk adventures that I've had, and I enjoy them over and over again. This isn't to say that all the times have been good. I've had my share of problems and troubles due to drinking - and they served as a way for me to gauge my limits better, and to make smarter choices where drinking is concerned. Week-long binges are a thing of the past. For the past three years I drink roughly once a month. I start after work Friday and keep at it next morning through Saturday night. I don't drive, miss work, or get into fights. My wife accepts that I'm a heavy drinker. I accept that I won't live as long as I would as a teetotaler. And I'm ok losing that 5 or 10 years, just like you're ok with it by eating as you do, and not following a caloric restriction diet.
Going back to my original post, I was looking for a forum for people like me, who can get drunk occasionally without losing control. To paraphrase Winston Churchill, a forum for people who get more out of alcohol than alcohol gets out of them. Does a place like that exist?
Having said that, I need to make one point exceedingly clear: what most of you fail to realize is that, like with anything in life, things aren't black & white with alcohol. It isn't all bad, or all good. Why demonize something just because you didn't have the discipline to use it in a way that kept your life on track? "Everything in moderation, including moderation", as the saying goes. People do all kinds of things in life because they get enjoyment out of them - those activities are part of what makes life worth living. And yes, a lot of these activities shorten peoples lives, or contribute problems, diminish health, or carry any other number of negative consequences. But, without those things, people just wouldn't be who they are. For example, I ride bikes. Motorcycles are dangerous, everyone knows that. But, to me, the risks are worth what I get in return. I get something from this activity, how it makes me feel, that I can't find anywhere else. If I stop riding, the chance that I will die or be crippled in a crash will decrease. But I also will stop being myself. Riding is part of who I am, it's part of what makes life worth living, for me. So I do it. Other people base jump, climb mountains, go bull running.... and the list goes on. Another example is diet. People know that, in general, eating certain types of food is bad for you. And yet, what would life be without fast food, fried stuff, milkshakes, chips... Yes, perhaps you'd live an extra few years if you gave up all of that. But would it be worth it? An extension of this point is the scientific fact that caloric restriction dramatically extends life. Eating a quarter less food on a daily basis than the typical "western" diet contains would extend a person's life by many years. No long term studies have been conducted on humans, but mice fed on the caloric restriction regimen have a 30-40% increased lifespan over mice who eat til they're sated. And yet, how many of us will deprive ourselves of the pleasures of eating in order to not die 10 or more years too early?
But let me not get too far away from the point I'm trying to make. I love drinking. In the 13 years I drank, I've added irreplaceable texture and experiences to my life that I haven't found elsewhere. I can think back to the good times and drunk adventures that I've had, and I enjoy them over and over again. This isn't to say that all the times have been good. I've had my share of problems and troubles due to drinking - and they served as a way for me to gauge my limits better, and to make smarter choices where drinking is concerned. Week-long binges are a thing of the past. For the past three years I drink roughly once a month. I start after work Friday and keep at it next morning through Saturday night. I don't drive, miss work, or get into fights. My wife accepts that I'm a heavy drinker. I accept that I won't live as long as I would as a teetotaler. And I'm ok losing that 5 or 10 years, just like you're ok with it by eating as you do, and not following a caloric restriction diet.
Going back to my original post, I was looking for a forum for people like me, who can get drunk occasionally without losing control. To paraphrase Winston Churchill, a forum for people who get more out of alcohol than alcohol gets out of them. Does a place like that exist?
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,436
No, There is no heavy drinker forum here - but this Alcoholism forum is open to drinkers of all kinds who want to stop or who have stopped drinking..
If you think you fit in there somewhere we're glad to have you.
Many of us tho have drunk to extents where it is actually pretty black and white - it's life or death - and you'll probably find that reflected in a lot of the posts.
All we can share is our experience and you can take it or leave it as you like
I used the 'may as well die young and happy' argument for many years too - until my drinking progressed to a point where I was no longer happy....but even then I couldn't stop drinking - and then I really did almost die.
Believe me, that experience really helped me work out what I wanted - I wanted to live...and all my 'I can give up 5 or ten years' schtick went right out the window.
You've had a lot of people share their experience with you - I suspect a lot more will respond to your latest post too.
I hope you'll get something out of being here
D
If you think you fit in there somewhere we're glad to have you.
Many of us tho have drunk to extents where it is actually pretty black and white - it's life or death - and you'll probably find that reflected in a lot of the posts.
All we can share is our experience and you can take it or leave it as you like
I used the 'may as well die young and happy' argument for many years too - until my drinking progressed to a point where I was no longer happy....but even then I couldn't stop drinking - and then I really did almost die.
Believe me, that experience really helped me work out what I wanted - I wanted to live...and all my 'I can give up 5 or ten years' schtick went right out the window.
You've had a lot of people share their experience with you - I suspect a lot more will respond to your latest post too.
I hope you'll get something out of being here
D
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 456
Originally Posted by bike
Week-long binges are a thing of the past. For the past three years I drink roughly once a month. I start after work Friday and keep at it next morning through Saturday night. I don't drive, miss work, or get into fights. My wife accepts that I'm a heavy drinker.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,146
I think the email forum of Moderation Management is pretty easy to find, and I told you how to contact the Hamsters (Harm Reduction forum) on *****.
What else do you need?
If you can't cut back as you would like we'll be around, but I encourage your efforts and feel not the slightest impulse to demonize you, and see nothing but honest concern in the other posts.
Regroup, and get on with your search for people to support what you are doing to yourself. You can tell your wife and others that you are doing something regarding your drinking without understanding or changing a thing, which is what you are after.
About the 10th person here this week with clearly the same goal. It's not at all as special as you would like to think.
What else do you need?
If you can't cut back as you would like we'll be around, but I encourage your efforts and feel not the slightest impulse to demonize you, and see nothing but honest concern in the other posts.
Regroup, and get on with your search for people to support what you are doing to yourself. You can tell your wife and others that you are doing something regarding your drinking without understanding or changing a thing, which is what you are after.
About the 10th person here this week with clearly the same goal. It's not at all as special as you would like to think.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: harare
Posts: 25
You do love your alcohol dont you, you speak about with such profound value. There is where the problem lies, i have been deliberating whether i should quit. i am a highly functionally alcoholic who drinks once a week. but its always over the top. The point is even if you drink once a month if you drink excessively when you do that's the flag. Alcohol is a man made substance and men is flawed, why such an attachment to it
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 160
Good luck to you. No offense, but your entire response screams "denial" to me, especially your attempts to compare your binge drinking to other things like eating or bike riding.. (you may as well have compared it to walking down the street- everything has risks) ... Just my personal and humble opinion.. and hey I could be wrong. But remember, it's not all about 'you' .. If you have a wife, kids, and family, your drinking has negative effects and feelings on their level, no matter how much you believe (or want to believe) that they accept it. You are undoubtedly causing unhappy thoughts and stress for them that they keep to themselves. Alcoholics are selfish, often without realizing ... One big thing that stands out to me is your acceptance of taking 10 years off of your life in exchange for drinking alcohol .. I wonder how your wife is picturing her life, old and without you, when that time happens.
Again, no offense intended. I hope you do well and find the drinking support that makes you happy. I just found your response very sad and really felt the need to say so. Hope things work out for you, and your loved ones. Take care.
Again, no offense intended. I hope you do well and find the drinking support that makes you happy. I just found your response very sad and really felt the need to say so. Hope things work out for you, and your loved ones. Take care.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,677
Bike,
Why the hell do you need a FORUM to make it okay with you that you are what you term a "heavy drinker"? My guess is that you drink FAR more than once a month, which is what you just admitted to in your last post. One thing you learn quickly in working with a broad spectrum of patients is that nearly ALL of them under characterize their actual drinking behavior. People who are "casual" drinkers don't spend time calculating how much or how often they drink. People who self-classify as "heavy drinkers" just don't want to have the label alcoholic applied to them, which is what they really are. Seriously, dude.
As to "harm reduction", either you can't read or don't want to read the alcohol statistics. I don't mean car accidents or accidental injuries from alcohol, which are clear enough. I mean slowly, steadily killing your liver. You think you are having fun now? Come back and tell us about that again when you can't have fun EVER because you are in liver failure. Which you will eventually be on your current course. YEARS of liver failure is what you are looking at, which is YEARS of misery in the latter part of your life. Losing 5 or 10 years? Yeah, right. You say that as though your final years leading UP to your last breath will be fun-filled, alcohol drinking years. Think again, my friend. That isn't realistic.
Personally, I am all for people's rights, including to drink and to smoke. I don't have to stand next to a smoker, and I don't have to spend time with drinkers if I don't want to. I don't much care if other people want to do those things. I am not going to spend my precious activist hours on THAT. I am not going to come after you and try to take any of that away from you.
But, please don't talk stupid about it. If there are others out there like you who are self-proclaimed "heavy drinkers" and need a club to define them, I have no problem with that either. The saddest thing about your post is the selfishness in it. You're married. Maybe you have kids. Well, guess who is learning their coping skills from you.
FT
Why the hell do you need a FORUM to make it okay with you that you are what you term a "heavy drinker"? My guess is that you drink FAR more than once a month, which is what you just admitted to in your last post. One thing you learn quickly in working with a broad spectrum of patients is that nearly ALL of them under characterize their actual drinking behavior. People who are "casual" drinkers don't spend time calculating how much or how often they drink. People who self-classify as "heavy drinkers" just don't want to have the label alcoholic applied to them, which is what they really are. Seriously, dude.
As to "harm reduction", either you can't read or don't want to read the alcohol statistics. I don't mean car accidents or accidental injuries from alcohol, which are clear enough. I mean slowly, steadily killing your liver. You think you are having fun now? Come back and tell us about that again when you can't have fun EVER because you are in liver failure. Which you will eventually be on your current course. YEARS of liver failure is what you are looking at, which is YEARS of misery in the latter part of your life. Losing 5 or 10 years? Yeah, right. You say that as though your final years leading UP to your last breath will be fun-filled, alcohol drinking years. Think again, my friend. That isn't realistic.
Personally, I am all for people's rights, including to drink and to smoke. I don't have to stand next to a smoker, and I don't have to spend time with drinkers if I don't want to. I don't much care if other people want to do those things. I am not going to spend my precious activist hours on THAT. I am not going to come after you and try to take any of that away from you.
But, please don't talk stupid about it. If there are others out there like you who are self-proclaimed "heavy drinkers" and need a club to define them, I have no problem with that either. The saddest thing about your post is the selfishness in it. You're married. Maybe you have kids. Well, guess who is learning their coping skills from you.
FT
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,905
Going back to my original post, I was looking for a forum for people like me, who can get drunk occasionally without losing control. To paraphrase Winston Churchill, a forum for people who get more out of alcohol than alcohol gets out of them. Does a place like that exist?
I don't understand why you would need a forum if you have control of your drinking. What drew you to the internet to search for such a thing?
I think most of us enjoyed drinking...loved it even, until it caused more problems than we could ignore. I drank for nearly 30 years before it reached that point. If you've only been drinking for 13 years, you may have a long way to go before you get there.
Your analogies don't make sense to me. We HAVE to eat to live, so we can't give up food, but we don't have to drink alcohol. You can do all the things you enjoy without pouring alcohol down your throat. If you think you can't, then you are thinking alcoholically. It's okay if you disagree. I didn't want to admit it either for many, many years.
Again, if you didn't have some inkling somewhere in the back of your mind that you don't drink like "normal" people, I don't think you'd have been searching out message boards about alcohol in the first place.
I don't understand why you would need a forum if you have control of your drinking. What drew you to the internet to search for such a thing?
I think most of us enjoyed drinking...loved it even, until it caused more problems than we could ignore. I drank for nearly 30 years before it reached that point. If you've only been drinking for 13 years, you may have a long way to go before you get there.
Your analogies don't make sense to me. We HAVE to eat to live, so we can't give up food, but we don't have to drink alcohol. You can do all the things you enjoy without pouring alcohol down your throat. If you think you can't, then you are thinking alcoholically. It's okay if you disagree. I didn't want to admit it either for many, many years.
Again, if you didn't have some inkling somewhere in the back of your mind that you don't drink like "normal" people, I don't think you'd have been searching out message boards about alcohol in the first place.
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: WI
Posts: 118
And I think you could probably guess that if you really want to meet other people who love drinking as much as you do and don't see any problem with it, there are about 10 of these meeting places in nearly every town, they're called bars. Plenty of people will agree with you there, maybe even buy you a drink too!
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by switchboard
If you have a wife, kids, and family, your drinking has negative effects and feelings on their level, no matter how much you believe (or want to believe) that they accept it. You are undoubtedly causing unhappy thoughts and stress for them that they keep to themselves. Alcoholics are selfish, often without realizing ...
Originally Posted by switchboard
One big thing that stands out to me is your acceptance of taking 10 years off of your life in exchange for drinking alcohol .. I wonder how your wife is picturing her life, old and without you, when that time happens.
...
...
Originally Posted by failedtaper
Bike,
Why the hell do you need a FORUM to make it okay with you that you are what you term a "heavy drinker"? My guess is that you drink FAR more than once a month, which is what you just admitted to in your last post. One thing you learn quickly in working with a broad spectrum of patients is that nearly ALL of them under characterize their actual drinking behavior. People who are "casual" drinkers don't spend time calculating how much or how often they drink. People who self-classify as "heavy drinkers" just don't want to have the label alcoholic applied to them, which is what they really are. Seriously, dude.
As to "harm reduction", either you can't read or don't want to read the alcohol statistics. I don't mean car accidents or accidental injuries from alcohol, which are clear enough. I mean slowly, steadily killing your liver. You think you are having fun now? Come back and tell us about that again when you can't have fun EVER because you are in liver failure. Which you will eventually be on your current course. YEARS of liver failure is what you are looking at, which is YEARS of misery in the latter part of your life. Losing 5 or 10 years? Yeah, right. You say that as though your final years leading UP to your last breath will be fun-filled, alcohol drinking years. Think again, my friend. That isn't realistic.
Personally, I am all for people's rights, including to drink and to smoke. I don't have to stand next to a smoker, and I don't have to spend time with drinkers if I don't want to. I don't much care if other people want to do those things. I am not going to spend my precious activist hours on THAT. I am not going to come after you and try to take any of that away from you.
But, please don't talk stupid about it. If there are others out there like you who are self-proclaimed "heavy drinkers" and need a club to define them, I have no problem with that either. The saddest thing about your post is the selfishness in it. You're married. Maybe you have kids. Well, guess who is learning their coping skills from you.
FT
Why the hell do you need a FORUM to make it okay with you that you are what you term a "heavy drinker"? My guess is that you drink FAR more than once a month, which is what you just admitted to in your last post. One thing you learn quickly in working with a broad spectrum of patients is that nearly ALL of them under characterize their actual drinking behavior. People who are "casual" drinkers don't spend time calculating how much or how often they drink. People who self-classify as "heavy drinkers" just don't want to have the label alcoholic applied to them, which is what they really are. Seriously, dude.
As to "harm reduction", either you can't read or don't want to read the alcohol statistics. I don't mean car accidents or accidental injuries from alcohol, which are clear enough. I mean slowly, steadily killing your liver. You think you are having fun now? Come back and tell us about that again when you can't have fun EVER because you are in liver failure. Which you will eventually be on your current course. YEARS of liver failure is what you are looking at, which is YEARS of misery in the latter part of your life. Losing 5 or 10 years? Yeah, right. You say that as though your final years leading UP to your last breath will be fun-filled, alcohol drinking years. Think again, my friend. That isn't realistic.
Personally, I am all for people's rights, including to drink and to smoke. I don't have to stand next to a smoker, and I don't have to spend time with drinkers if I don't want to. I don't much care if other people want to do those things. I am not going to spend my precious activist hours on THAT. I am not going to come after you and try to take any of that away from you.
But, please don't talk stupid about it. If there are others out there like you who are self-proclaimed "heavy drinkers" and need a club to define them, I have no problem with that either. The saddest thing about your post is the selfishness in it. You're married. Maybe you have kids. Well, guess who is learning their coping skills from you.
FT
In response to your argument, as I stated, I drink Friday night through Saturday night, once monthly. It works out to ~10 beers Friday, and ~20 on Saturday, for a total of ~400 units of alcohol a year. I doubt I'm loading up my liver catastrophically by having the equivalent of just over one alcoholic drink a day - at least not past the point of it being able to repair itself. The liver is the only internal human organ capable of natural regeneration of lost tissue; as little as 25% of a liver can regenerate into a whole liver.
Originally Posted by suki44883
Again, if you didn't have some inkling somewhere in the back of your mind that you don't drink like "normal" people, I don't think you'd have been searching out message boards about alcohol in the first place.
Not waving, but drowning
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 423
Originally Posted by bike
And, just like there's a difference between people who can have a few drinks and still have a good time, and me, who wants to get drunk, there's a difference between people like me that have the self control to only get drunk occasionally, and people who can't keep from getting drunk daily, or every weekend, to the point that instead of drunkenness being just an occasional indulgence, just another small part of life to be enjoyed, it becomes a way of life, to the exclusion of all other pursuits. What's so incomprehensible about that?
You seem comfortable with what you are doing, so there isn't much any of us can (or should) say at this point. SR is here if you change your mind or want to read more.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,905
Please don't forget that you came to an alcohol recovery board. You really shouldn't be surprised that the responses you get come from that place. If you are perfectly happy with the way you drink, then more power to ya. I still don't see why you keep coming back here arguing your position if you are fine with it.
Like someone else suggested...if you can't find what you are looking for, then start a board of your own for your own purposes. Our experiences and opinions aren't going to change just because you keep trying to explain your position.
Like someone else suggested...if you can't find what you are looking for, then start a board of your own for your own purposes. Our experiences and opinions aren't going to change just because you keep trying to explain your position.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 223
Originally Posted by bike
I was looking for a forum for people like me, who can get drunk occasionally without losing control. To paraphrase Winston Churchill, a forum for people who get more out of alcohol than alcohol gets out of them. Does a place like that exist?
Of course you can start a forum and see how it works out. My guess is you will be flooded with alcoholics who just think they are in control of their drinking and are delighted to find others who are willing to reassure one another that that is the case--until it becomes clear it isn't.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,677
Originally Posted by bike
There's a lot of anger and negativity in what you wrote. If you really work with patients in a therapeutic setting, you may want to re-evaluate the tone and language that you use with people when communicating with them, if only for your patients sake.
In response to your argument, as I stated, I drink Friday night through Saturday night, once monthly. It works out to ~10 beers Friday, and ~20 on Saturday, for a total of ~400 units of alcohol a year. I doubt I'm loading up my liver catastrophically by having the equivalent of just over one alcoholic drink a day - at least not past the point of it being able to repair itself. The liver is the only internal human organ capable of natural regeneration of lost tissue; as little as 25% of a liver can regenerate into a whole liver.
In response to your argument, as I stated, I drink Friday night through Saturday night, once monthly. It works out to ~10 beers Friday, and ~20 on Saturday, for a total of ~400 units of alcohol a year. I doubt I'm loading up my liver catastrophically by having the equivalent of just over one alcoholic drink a day - at least not past the point of it being able to repair itself. The liver is the only internal human organ capable of natural regeneration of lost tissue; as little as 25% of a liver can regenerate into a whole liver.
I've seen other posters with the sadly mistaken impression that the liver is a miracle organ that can regenerate. Cirrhotic livers do not heal, despite what you may be finding on internet sites. I've seen those sites. The internet is wonderful, but be careful not to believe everything you read. A slow death from liver failure is not pretty. Sorry if you want mamby-pamby words in response to your post. You won't get them from me.
Here is an excerpt from an ACTUAL MEDICAL SOURCE:
"The prognosis for patients with cirrhosis is highly unpredictable. Although some patients can benefit from a liver transplant, at present, no method exists for repairing liver damage associated with cirrhosis." Liver cirrhosis mortality in the United States, 1970-2007 Young-Hee Yoon; Hsiao-ye Yi; National Institutes of Health (U.S.); National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (U.S.). Alcohol Epidemiologic Data System. August 2010.
Further, "Alcohol poisoning is the most life-threatening consequence of binge drinking. When a person drinks too much, his or her body’s reflexes are affected. These include breathing and the pharyngeal reflex. The pharyngeal reflex, also known as gag reflex, helps to prevent choking. If this reflex is not functioning well, one may die from choking on his or her vomit." Singapore Health Protection Board, 2009.
Like I said before, I don't much care what choices you make as a free American citizen, especially if you are not breaking any laws. I am more concerned with the role model you set for your children, and I am saddened for you wife, who may be stuck with caring for an invalid in his later years who did not want to listen to reasonable warnings.
I wish you luck. The people on this forum are here for recovery. I also don't want any of them filled with misinformation about the dangers of binge drinking, which are very real.
FT
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 160
Oh my goodness, Bike, you just don't get it. You think you "know" things, but you don't. It's very sad reading your desperate attempts to try to justify the way you drink .. especially your disregard and uncaring attitude toward others in your life. Also, you need to do a little more research on the liver, buddy. It can shut down beyond hope at any time if it's harmed enough .. there is no magic 25% .. and if it's scarred, the scars themselves don't heal... and you probably don't even know they're there. They can build up, and one binge could be enough to do you in, and you'll never see it coming. You are taking statistics like your "25%", and like how long your family has lived, and making assumptions based on them. That is rather narrowminded and juvenile, in my humble opinion.
It seems, Bike, that you have an "attitude" that is unlikely to be swayed here in this type of forum. You want what you want at whatever expense. I don't know if you came here to stir something up or not. I sure hope not - it would be mean and selfish to use a group such as this for your own entertainment: setting up a debate and then watching the group squirm. I hope that's not why you're here. We are good people, trying to get alcohol's grip out of our lives ...
It seems, Bike, that you have an "attitude" that is unlikely to be swayed here in this type of forum. You want what you want at whatever expense. I don't know if you came here to stir something up or not. I sure hope not - it would be mean and selfish to use a group such as this for your own entertainment: setting up a debate and then watching the group squirm. I hope that's not why you're here. We are good people, trying to get alcohol's grip out of our lives ...
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