Powerlessness
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Originally Posted by MickeyAnMeisce 
This is how you claim that people who believe that they are powerless over alcohol behave. How would people who are actually powerless over alcohol behave?
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique
They would drink whenever they saw alcohol, as in, they wouldn't even make it to the meetings if there was a bar on the way with a big blinking OPEN sign. Nobody is powerless over desire, and if they were, they would have to be locked up permanently as a danger to themselves and others.
Thus, I feel they do have the power to abstain, but choose not to, for any of a variety of complex and diverse reasons.
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Originally Posted by DayTrader
I went to a funeral this past Sunday evening for a 24yr old who never was able to reach the conclusion that he was powerless over booze and heroine. I didn't know him personally but his dad is a friend of mine in recovery. He (the son) was in therapy, went through rehab 3x I believe (maybe 2....), had support groups, even hit up some meetings....... he was convinced he could, one of these days, think himself into sobriety.
If he did go to meetings, they probably told him that he was powerless over his desire for alcohol and drugs, an idea which is naturally very appealing to anyone in the throes of addiction. They then told him, however, "take what you want and leave the rest."
Well, what do you think he took? The powerless part, of course, since it plays right into his addictions. What do you reckon he left behind? Everything else, of course. I know that you've seen this countless times before yourself.
Ironically, three rehab stints is pretty low. Someone just posted earlier today about six detoxes and $120,000 in rehabs. Addiction "treatment" is an iatrogenic nightmare which for many, only aggravates the original problem and rockets them into an accelerated downward spiral into the abyss. I would wager that your friend's son fits the bill.
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My experience with powerlessness was pretty much a non-event. Basically I just gave myself permission to drink whenever. I was not a black out drinker, usually 
. I just kinda figured that was what being addicted felt like and really didn't give it much thought. I hear this powerless equals helpless and hence not responsible and, well, I can't relate to that. I never ever felt like that.
I heard a lot of stuff at treatment... Disease and all that. Not responsible for our alcoholism but responsible for our recovery. That not responsible for our disease never really rang true with me and seemed besides the point, a distraction... I remember thinking what the hell is that all about? I got addicted, this disease if you will, to pills, because I took too many of the damned things for too long... I am responsible.
I was always curious.
So what you say, TU, about treatment centers not telling us how to quit, well, is partly true. Though there was a lot of role playing, CBT stuff that seemed intuitive, to me anyway... I also remember thinking that I was really suffering from grief, everyone so grateful and all that, to be there and .... I just wanted to take one of those goddamned bocce balls we played with at rec therapy and wing it through the plate glass window on the second floor.
No one there had anything I wanted, well... One guy did, the medical director... He told me the antidote to the loss of credibility, the loss of self esteem I felt, the antidote was... Integrity.
. I just kinda figured that was what being addicted felt like and really didn't give it much thought. I hear this powerless equals helpless and hence not responsible and, well, I can't relate to that. I never ever felt like that.I heard a lot of stuff at treatment... Disease and all that. Not responsible for our alcoholism but responsible for our recovery. That not responsible for our disease never really rang true with me and seemed besides the point, a distraction... I remember thinking what the hell is that all about? I got addicted, this disease if you will, to pills, because I took too many of the damned things for too long... I am responsible.
I was always curious.
So what you say, TU, about treatment centers not telling us how to quit, well, is partly true. Though there was a lot of role playing, CBT stuff that seemed intuitive, to me anyway... I also remember thinking that I was really suffering from grief, everyone so grateful and all that, to be there and .... I just wanted to take one of those goddamned bocce balls we played with at rec therapy and wing it through the plate glass window on the second floor.
No one there had anything I wanted, well... One guy did, the medical director... He told me the antidote to the loss of credibility, the loss of self esteem I felt, the antidote was... Integrity.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by HuskyPup
Interesting point. In this sense, if they had absolutely no power over alcohol, they would just drink and drink and drink and never be able to do anything about it, such as set out on one path of recovery or another. Anytime they saw alcohol, they would drink it, opening bottles at liquor stores, stealing glasses of wine from others at outdoor cafes, setting up makeshift stills in the woods, and so forth. They would have no control.
Actually, I was not quite that bad, but I would have answered YES to the following questions;
1. Have you ever been so hung-over that you poured beer in your orange juice and vodka on your cereal?
2. Have you ever thought about robbing a liquor store - for the liquor?
3. Have you ever gotten so drunk that you had to crawl up the stairs - feet first?
4. Have you ever watched TV with the sound turned all the way down and the power turned all the way off?
:rotfxko
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They would drink whenever they saw alcohol, as in, they wouldn't even make it to the meetings if there was a bar on the way with a big blinking OPEN sign. Nobody is powerless over desire, and if they were, they would have to be locked up permanently as a danger to themselves and others.
Interesting point. In this sense, if they had absolutely no power over alcohol, they would just drink and drink and drink and never be able to do anything about it, such as set out on one path of recovery or another. Anytime they saw alcohol, they would drink it, opening bottles at liquor stores, stealing glasses of wine from others at outdoor cafes, setting up makeshift stills in the woods, and so forth. They would have no control.
for the last 5 years of my life I drank every day...I did drink out of ashtrays when I spilled my beer, I sucked it out of the carpet, I drank from bottles I'd accidentally put my cigarette butts in...I needed a drink to get out of bed, and I sometimes stole from friends to get it...the only thing that stopped me stealing from stores was the sure and certain knowledge I'd get caught.
I did a lot more things I won't talk about here, too.
It may not be the constant drinking/desire scenario you guys have suggested here but my experience was pretty close.
D
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SoCal CA
Posts: 1,319
Originally Posted by Dee74
Well, I couldn't do anything about it for 20 years...
for the last 5 years of my life I drank every day...I did drink out of ashtrays when I spilled my beer, I sucked it out of the carpet, I drank from bottles I'd accidentally put my cigarette butts in...I needed a drink to get out of bed, and I sometimes stole from friends to get it...the only thing that stopped me stealing from stores was the sure and certain knowledge I'd get caught.
I did a lot more things I won't talk about here, too.
It may not be the constant drinking/desire scenario you guys have suggested here but my experience was pretty close.
D
for the last 5 years of my life I drank every day...I did drink out of ashtrays when I spilled my beer, I sucked it out of the carpet, I drank from bottles I'd accidentally put my cigarette butts in...I needed a drink to get out of bed, and I sometimes stole from friends to get it...the only thing that stopped me stealing from stores was the sure and certain knowledge I'd get caught.
I did a lot more things I won't talk about here, too.
It may not be the constant drinking/desire scenario you guys have suggested here but my experience was pretty close.
D
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
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Originally Posted by Dee74
It may not be the constant drinking/desire scenario you guys have suggested here but my experience was pretty close.
The prison of addiction, although it feels very real, is an illusion.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
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Hi everyone....
Please chill and remember
Please chill and remember
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Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
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Hi everyone....
Please chill and remember This thread is closed Thanks to all who shared from personal expereince
Please chill and remember
4. No Flaming: Posting of any content with the intention of disrupting the forum or inflaming members-be it on someone's person, religious beliefs, race, national background, sexual orientation, or recovery program. This includes flaming, flame baiting, registration of multiple accounts or impersonation of another member. Do not Harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress or discomfort upon another Online Forum participant. This includes flaming on our forums or other public forums.
No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and recovery are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
Ignore bothersome members. If there is someone on the forum that bothers you, select the Ignore option on the drop down menu under their name on the post. You won't see any posts from this member again.
No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and recovery are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
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