Very confused: HELP
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London UK
Posts: 59
Very confused: HELP
I just wrote this thread and it seemed to disappear, here we go again:
Quick summary of time leading up to this summer - have been in and out of AA for about 6 years, up until 2 years ago very much drifting in occasionally but really being out and drinking most of the time. About 2 years ago decided I had to take it more seriously and "properly" came in, got a sponsor, lasted about 4 months. Since then have been in, determined to do it properly this time, for 2-3 months, then back out for 2-3 months.
This summer was my latest attempt. The guy I asked to be my sponsor this time asked if I was willing to go to any lengths: I said yes and felt I truly meant it. Meetings every day, sometimes two. I cancelled a trip abroad (ended up costing me over £300), avoided an event I was desperate to go to because my sponsor said I needed to avoid a girl who was causing issues in my life.
Anyway, near the end of the summer (for which I'd happened to be off work for 2 months) my friends invited me for a weekend away. This was after 7 weeks of being stuck in the city doing pretty much nothing but AA every day, including hours some days on step 4. I felt like I was going a little bit crazy so said I was thinking of going, that I'd go to meetings in the area we were going to etc. He basically got openly angry, and "strongly suggested" that I don't go. It was becoming increasingly clear to me that the suggestions were really ultimatums. When I pointed out the huge committment and sacrifices I'd made for AA, he told me my not going abroad was really to do with this girl and not for AA at all (not true incidentally) and generally came across as quite frighteningly controlling.
Although I didn't say anything at the time, internally I completely freaked out. I haven't been to a meeting or had any contact with him since (6 weeks ago). I was furious for a while, and fueled my thoughts that AA is a controlling cult with the orange papers website. I feel the event clarified, in my mind, that I will never be able to believe in a Higher Power in the sense of something magically pulling the strings and causing "God-incidences" - I don't want to insult anybody, but I find such a belief insane.
The problem is, AA does work in terms of removing the desire to drink, where nothing else does. I want that bit of it. But I didn't find any of the rest of it was helping. I found step 4 completely and utterly bizarre, and soul-destroying. I feel like I wasted my summer sitting in a room writing about how awful I've been in each and every situation in my life, and I just don't see how that can help me (and it didn't). I had other issues (mostly to do with this girl) and the AA approach simply wasn't helping me at all. In many ways, I feel I WAS right to go on this trip - I didn't pick up and I had a wonderful time, where my sponsor would have had me sitting in a room on my own writing a list of character defects. How can that possibly, on any level, be good advice? Surely getting out and being sociable, for one weekend, where I said I was even willing to go to local meetings, can't be bad?
That said, I have since picked up; it took a few weeks, but I did. I'm now feeling absolutely awful again. I don't feel it vindicates his advice, but it is as a consequence of my angrily leaving AA, clearly.
I'm now very confused. I think it may have been that this particular sponsor, and these particular meetings, are cultish and controlling. I've been to a different meeting and spoke to someone at the end there who said perhaps rather than picking up a drink I might have thought of picking up a different sponsor. Obvious advice now, advice I wish I'd got before.
I did hear an old-timer of around 10 years or so sharing that he is an atheist at a meeting a few years ago. I wonder if someone like that might work for me.
Sorry if I've upset anyone with this thread. I'm feeling very confused and close to despair. I've always felt AA is going to be my answer...the idea it might not be is terrifying. Any advice very welcome, thank you in advance.
Quick summary of time leading up to this summer - have been in and out of AA for about 6 years, up until 2 years ago very much drifting in occasionally but really being out and drinking most of the time. About 2 years ago decided I had to take it more seriously and "properly" came in, got a sponsor, lasted about 4 months. Since then have been in, determined to do it properly this time, for 2-3 months, then back out for 2-3 months.
This summer was my latest attempt. The guy I asked to be my sponsor this time asked if I was willing to go to any lengths: I said yes and felt I truly meant it. Meetings every day, sometimes two. I cancelled a trip abroad (ended up costing me over £300), avoided an event I was desperate to go to because my sponsor said I needed to avoid a girl who was causing issues in my life.
Anyway, near the end of the summer (for which I'd happened to be off work for 2 months) my friends invited me for a weekend away. This was after 7 weeks of being stuck in the city doing pretty much nothing but AA every day, including hours some days on step 4. I felt like I was going a little bit crazy so said I was thinking of going, that I'd go to meetings in the area we were going to etc. He basically got openly angry, and "strongly suggested" that I don't go. It was becoming increasingly clear to me that the suggestions were really ultimatums. When I pointed out the huge committment and sacrifices I'd made for AA, he told me my not going abroad was really to do with this girl and not for AA at all (not true incidentally) and generally came across as quite frighteningly controlling.
Although I didn't say anything at the time, internally I completely freaked out. I haven't been to a meeting or had any contact with him since (6 weeks ago). I was furious for a while, and fueled my thoughts that AA is a controlling cult with the orange papers website. I feel the event clarified, in my mind, that I will never be able to believe in a Higher Power in the sense of something magically pulling the strings and causing "God-incidences" - I don't want to insult anybody, but I find such a belief insane.
The problem is, AA does work in terms of removing the desire to drink, where nothing else does. I want that bit of it. But I didn't find any of the rest of it was helping. I found step 4 completely and utterly bizarre, and soul-destroying. I feel like I wasted my summer sitting in a room writing about how awful I've been in each and every situation in my life, and I just don't see how that can help me (and it didn't). I had other issues (mostly to do with this girl) and the AA approach simply wasn't helping me at all. In many ways, I feel I WAS right to go on this trip - I didn't pick up and I had a wonderful time, where my sponsor would have had me sitting in a room on my own writing a list of character defects. How can that possibly, on any level, be good advice? Surely getting out and being sociable, for one weekend, where I said I was even willing to go to local meetings, can't be bad?
That said, I have since picked up; it took a few weeks, but I did. I'm now feeling absolutely awful again. I don't feel it vindicates his advice, but it is as a consequence of my angrily leaving AA, clearly.
I'm now very confused. I think it may have been that this particular sponsor, and these particular meetings, are cultish and controlling. I've been to a different meeting and spoke to someone at the end there who said perhaps rather than picking up a drink I might have thought of picking up a different sponsor. Obvious advice now, advice I wish I'd got before.
I did hear an old-timer of around 10 years or so sharing that he is an atheist at a meeting a few years ago. I wonder if someone like that might work for me.
Sorry if I've upset anyone with this thread. I'm feeling very confused and close to despair. I've always felt AA is going to be my answer...the idea it might not be is terrifying. Any advice very welcome, thank you in advance.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 24
That has always bothered me too. I am an atheist and can't really get to grips with the whole 'higher power' idea.
It certainly seems as though your sponsor was way too controlling, and may be like that outside of AA too. Some people just are. I think AA makes sense when people are open about the fact there are some people who might find parts of it useful and other parts not so useful. It's not a medicine after all.
I think getting a new sponsor who is capable, but more similar to you with regards to belief systems would be a good idea.
It certainly seems as though your sponsor was way too controlling, and may be like that outside of AA too. Some people just are. I think AA makes sense when people are open about the fact there are some people who might find parts of it useful and other parts not so useful. It's not a medicine after all.
I think getting a new sponsor who is capable, but more similar to you with regards to belief systems would be a good idea.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London UK
Posts: 59
Thanks for your thoughts. I admired him a lot early on, but started to realise he had a lot of issues of his own. I think he's a very angry person, and that started to come out and freak me out a little bit.
The problem is, I've found the hard way you can't do AA in half measures. I am willing to do it properly, I think I just need to do it in my own way, and like you say, that's probably to do with finding a sponsor on my wavelength.
I've read your other posts too - good luck. It's tough being less than 24 hours sober that's for sure...
The problem is, I've found the hard way you can't do AA in half measures. I am willing to do it properly, I think I just need to do it in my own way, and like you say, that's probably to do with finding a sponsor on my wavelength.
I've read your other posts too - good luck. It's tough being less than 24 hours sober that's for sure...
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Truth be told, I don't understand why people find step 4 "soul destroying". I found it liberating. I have been able to forgive myself for things that I used to beat myself up over. I "see" myself, and with a step 5, I begin to realize I am just a man with all the warts and imperfections that comes with being human... and I can forgive myself.
Maybe it is your sponsor... It is suggested that we write a list of our resentments, not whatever we already think our character defects are... That's the point, we can't always see them when asked to list them... and if you are like me... well, I tend to be excessively negative. But by reverse engineering our "defects" are revealed...
They were not as bad as I thought, but more importantly, they are different than I thought... And that I am no better or worse than anybody else.
Maybe it is your sponsor... It is suggested that we write a list of our resentments, not whatever we already think our character defects are... That's the point, we can't always see them when asked to list them... and if you are like me... well, I tend to be excessively negative. But by reverse engineering our "defects" are revealed...
They were not as bad as I thought, but more importantly, they are different than I thought... And that I am no better or worse than anybody else.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,960
A sponsor is someone who has worked and continues to work the steps. They have their own sponsor who continues to work the steps.
My sponsor or spiritual advisor has a sponsor who works the steps. They attend meetings, work with others, have a life outside of aa, volunteer their time, hold paid employment, take vacations.
These people are calm, I've seen them disagree. Neither person is aangry, don't hold resentments, accept others...they are spiritual in their behaviors. They are compassionnate, caring, sentimental, if they are touched. Once homeless, today, they own homes.
We come in aa broken & fuzzy with foggy brains and we are unaware of how alcohol has damaged us.
My sponsor does not order me around, telll me how to deal with my (kinda) boyfriend (I put on the back burner until I am more clear about me)
My sponsor or spiritual advisor has a sponsor who works the steps. They attend meetings, work with others, have a life outside of aa, volunteer their time, hold paid employment, take vacations.
These people are calm, I've seen them disagree. Neither person is aangry, don't hold resentments, accept others...they are spiritual in their behaviors. They are compassionnate, caring, sentimental, if they are touched. Once homeless, today, they own homes.
We come in aa broken & fuzzy with foggy brains and we are unaware of how alcohol has damaged us.
My sponsor does not order me around, telll me how to deal with my (kinda) boyfriend (I put on the back burner until I am more clear about me)
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
I see that you are in the UK, where a variant of "Primary Purpose" AA has been spreading, to the point where there seems to be an ideological war going on. You may have inadvertently run into one of those groups, which have a distinctly different approach from mainstream AA. If you did, know that the vast majority of the people on this forum probably have no experience with such groups.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,960
Did I mention my "repaired" phone is lame? Just lost my words to the abyss...
sponsors guide us through the steps, whicch don't require worksheets, they're in the big book. 4th step can be done in 30 minutes to 4 hours. Discussed for 1-6 hours, which is where & when the defects are discussed.
Find a sponsor without ego or control issues!
sponsors guide us through the steps, whicch don't require worksheets, they're in the big book. 4th step can be done in 30 minutes to 4 hours. Discussed for 1-6 hours, which is where & when the defects are discussed.
Find a sponsor without ego or control issues!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London UK
Posts: 59
OK I'm not entirely sure what to make of some of these responses.
Terminally Unique: what is a "Primary Purpose" group?
sugarbear1: just to be clear, are you saying this sponsor probably was a bad thing?
I feel like AA is ultimately my answer but I happened to get into a bad relationship with a sponsor this time round. As a result, I allowed myself, through anger and rejection, to fuel the idea AA is things that perhaps it isn't necessarily - I think it can work for just about anyone if they want it, that's why it's successful. But I've also come to realise I can't just switch off my brain and submit to a cult, even if on some level that "works". I'm looking for an intelligent version of AA that I can relate to basically. I think, ultimately, that will be my solution.
Terminally Unique: what is a "Primary Purpose" group?
sugarbear1: just to be clear, are you saying this sponsor probably was a bad thing?
I feel like AA is ultimately my answer but I happened to get into a bad relationship with a sponsor this time round. As a result, I allowed myself, through anger and rejection, to fuel the idea AA is things that perhaps it isn't necessarily - I think it can work for just about anyone if they want it, that's why it's successful. But I've also come to realise I can't just switch off my brain and submit to a cult, even if on some level that "works". I'm looking for an intelligent version of AA that I can relate to basically. I think, ultimately, that will be my solution.
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by tommy79 
I'm looking for an intelligent version of AA that I can relate to basically. I think, ultimately, that will be my solution.
I mean no disrespect at all by this. Do you really think, after 6 years of being on this site and unsuccessfully trying to stay sober, that you just might not be in the best position to judge what may ultimately be your solution?
I mean, maybe anything is a better solution than what you've come up with. I know that sounds harsh, but one of the entry points into AA is surrender. I surrender doing what I think I need to do, because it obviously hasn't worked for me. And I become willing to do it exactly like it has worked for others, straight out of the book.
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
Just a couple thoughts,in the original post Tommy you talk of all the effort you were doing for AA, and the time you put into AA. Well, you were putting in the time and effort for YOU, for YOUR recovery, not just to appease some sponsor or some cult.
I know it's just an off hand way of putting things, but sometimes the way our subconscious phrases things is revealing.
you later say "I've also come to realise I can't just switch off my brain and submit to a cult, even if on some level that "works".
the human brain has parts that are "geared" toward religious/spiritual practices and beliefs. It seems that for some reason, those tendencies, interests, beliefs and practices have been selected by the evolutionary process as adaptations that help humans compete.
It seems, that we can put those tendencies and adaptations to use to overcome our addictions and recover.
It's my choice to do what I see fit. For a long time I saw fit to "medicate" away my feelings and fears with a sick laundry list of behaviors and substances that destroyed my life. That, come to think of it, wasn't all that intelligent, logical or reasonable either, but that is what I did.
Now I am very willing to use any part of my brain that is still functional to recover, even that part, selected for by the evolutionary process that processes events, feelings, desires and thoughts as "spiritual". And, honestly, it seems totally reasonable for me to choose to use what nature equipped me with to save my life.
Praying, giving thanks, meditating are helping me recover.
My brain is hardwired into allowing me to "let go" of things I cannot control, and focus on what I can to best enable me to deal with my life. That does make a lot of sense to me NOW. Surrender...to what? To evolution, to the Universe, to the reality that the way I was thinking and choosing before was killing me so the only really logical thing to do now is try something different. To exercise a part of my brain that I allowed to atrophy and might just hold the key to my sobriety.
So, actually I don't think AA or other 12 step programs are asking anyone to turn their brain off, rather they are inviting us to turn ON a part of our brain that perhaps we had turned off, and allow that part to work in our recovery.
It works, because of how the human brain works. It's not about getting stupid, it's about getting honest enough to accept that we don't have to understand everything and run everything in order to recover. Maybe HP is that part of our brain that many addicts seem to have turned off, and the step work wakes it up and gets it going again, and when it's in gear, it does what the cerebral cortex alone cannot do.
I know it's just an off hand way of putting things, but sometimes the way our subconscious phrases things is revealing.
you later say "I've also come to realise I can't just switch off my brain and submit to a cult, even if on some level that "works".
the human brain has parts that are "geared" toward religious/spiritual practices and beliefs. It seems that for some reason, those tendencies, interests, beliefs and practices have been selected by the evolutionary process as adaptations that help humans compete.
It seems, that we can put those tendencies and adaptations to use to overcome our addictions and recover.
It's my choice to do what I see fit. For a long time I saw fit to "medicate" away my feelings and fears with a sick laundry list of behaviors and substances that destroyed my life. That, come to think of it, wasn't all that intelligent, logical or reasonable either, but that is what I did.
Now I am very willing to use any part of my brain that is still functional to recover, even that part, selected for by the evolutionary process that processes events, feelings, desires and thoughts as "spiritual". And, honestly, it seems totally reasonable for me to choose to use what nature equipped me with to save my life.
Praying, giving thanks, meditating are helping me recover.
My brain is hardwired into allowing me to "let go" of things I cannot control, and focus on what I can to best enable me to deal with my life. That does make a lot of sense to me NOW. Surrender...to what? To evolution, to the Universe, to the reality that the way I was thinking and choosing before was killing me so the only really logical thing to do now is try something different. To exercise a part of my brain that I allowed to atrophy and might just hold the key to my sobriety.
So, actually I don't think AA or other 12 step programs are asking anyone to turn their brain off, rather they are inviting us to turn ON a part of our brain that perhaps we had turned off, and allow that part to work in our recovery.
It works, because of how the human brain works. It's not about getting stupid, it's about getting honest enough to accept that we don't have to understand everything and run everything in order to recover. Maybe HP is that part of our brain that many addicts seem to have turned off, and the step work wakes it up and gets it going again, and when it's in gear, it does what the cerebral cortex alone cannot do.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
Well I read on all the forums of SR. There is so much wisdom all over this site, that I would hate to miss something that could help me just because of the title of the forum. I am not christian, but can certainly find words of wisdom in that forum if I look for them. Good stuff abounds all over SR IMO
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
The Secular Connections Forum has specific directions ...12 Step programs are not to be discussed.
Yes...if one is not interested in useing 12 Step programs...that is a good place to read and share on...
This Forum is Alcoholism ...so any posts about alcoholism and how best to recover are welcomed.
Yes...if one is not interested in useing 12 Step programs...that is a good place to read and share on...
This Forum is Alcoholism ...so any posts about alcoholism and how best to recover are welcomed.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Welcome back...
I can find falt in most everything....if I want to live in a negetive manner. I did that often as a drinker..it has no place in my recovery.
Prayers for your clarity...serenity and success going out...
I can find falt in most everything....if I want to live in a negetive manner. I did that often as a drinker..it has no place in my recovery.
Prayers for your clarity...serenity and success going out...
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by tommy79
Terminally Unique: what is a "Primary Purpose" group?
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,597
Just because someone is willing to be a sponsor doesn't mean they are a good one or a good one for you. A lot of people seem to think your sponsor's word is gospel and must be obeyed. I'm not interested in a sponsor who tells me how to live or tries to micromanage my life. They are there to take you through the Steps, nothing else. If you come to value their counsel on other subjects, great, but that's not why you have a sponsor.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London UK
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by Threshold
Just a couple thoughts,in the original post Tommy you talk of all the effort you were doing for AA, and the time you put into AA. Well, you were putting in the time and effort for YOU, for YOUR recovery, not just to appease some sponsor or some cult.
I know it's just an off hand way of putting things, but sometimes the way our subconscious phrases things is revealing.
you later say "I've also come to realise I can't just switch off my brain and submit to a cult, even if on some level that "works".
the human brain has parts that are "geared" toward religious/spiritual practices and beliefs. It seems that for some reason, those tendencies, interests, beliefs and practices have been selected by the evolutionary process as adaptations that help humans compete.
It seems, that we can put those tendencies and adaptations to use to overcome our addictions and recover.
It's my choice to do what I see fit. For a long time I saw fit to "medicate" away my feelings and fears with a sick laundry list of behaviors and substances that destroyed my life. That, come to think of it, wasn't all that intelligent, logical or reasonable either, but that is what I did.
Now I am very willing to use any part of my brain that is still functional to recover, even that part, selected for by the evolutionary process that processes events, feelings, desires and thoughts as "spiritual". And, honestly, it seems totally reasonable for me to choose to use what nature equipped me with to save my life.
Praying, giving thanks, meditating are helping me recover.
My brain is hardwired into allowing me to "let go" of things I cannot control, and focus on what I can to best enable me to deal with my life. That does make a lot of sense to me NOW. Surrender...to what? To evolution, to the Universe, to the reality that the way I was thinking and choosing before was killing me so the only really logical thing to do now is try something different. To exercise a part of my brain that I allowed to atrophy and might just hold the key to my sobriety.
So, actually I don't think AA or other 12 step programs are asking anyone to turn their brain off, rather they are inviting us to turn ON a part of our brain that perhaps we had turned off, and allow that part to work in our recovery.
It works, because of how the human brain works. It's not about getting stupid, it's about getting honest enough to accept that we don't have to understand everything and run everything in order to recover. Maybe HP is that part of our brain that many addicts seem to have turned off, and the step work wakes it up and gets it going again, and when it's in gear, it does what the cerebral cortex alone cannot do.
I know it's just an off hand way of putting things, but sometimes the way our subconscious phrases things is revealing.
you later say "I've also come to realise I can't just switch off my brain and submit to a cult, even if on some level that "works".
the human brain has parts that are "geared" toward religious/spiritual practices and beliefs. It seems that for some reason, those tendencies, interests, beliefs and practices have been selected by the evolutionary process as adaptations that help humans compete.
It seems, that we can put those tendencies and adaptations to use to overcome our addictions and recover.
It's my choice to do what I see fit. For a long time I saw fit to "medicate" away my feelings and fears with a sick laundry list of behaviors and substances that destroyed my life. That, come to think of it, wasn't all that intelligent, logical or reasonable either, but that is what I did.
Now I am very willing to use any part of my brain that is still functional to recover, even that part, selected for by the evolutionary process that processes events, feelings, desires and thoughts as "spiritual". And, honestly, it seems totally reasonable for me to choose to use what nature equipped me with to save my life.
Praying, giving thanks, meditating are helping me recover.
My brain is hardwired into allowing me to "let go" of things I cannot control, and focus on what I can to best enable me to deal with my life. That does make a lot of sense to me NOW. Surrender...to what? To evolution, to the Universe, to the reality that the way I was thinking and choosing before was killing me so the only really logical thing to do now is try something different. To exercise a part of my brain that I allowed to atrophy and might just hold the key to my sobriety.
So, actually I don't think AA or other 12 step programs are asking anyone to turn their brain off, rather they are inviting us to turn ON a part of our brain that perhaps we had turned off, and allow that part to work in our recovery.
It works, because of how the human brain works. It's not about getting stupid, it's about getting honest enough to accept that we don't have to understand everything and run everything in order to recover. Maybe HP is that part of our brain that many addicts seem to have turned off, and the step work wakes it up and gets it going again, and when it's in gear, it does what the cerebral cortex alone cannot do.
But that seems to me to be analysing and understanding why it works, but it doesn't help me, for instance, actually accept a HP. How do I pray to something I don't think exists?
I didn't really mean to say it was "stupid" (and don't think I did). But you have to admit a large amount of what you get in AA is basically telling you not to trust your own thoughts (and intelligence really) because they'll mislead you. I have far more of a problem with that then I thought I would at the outset.
I'm going to reply to some of these others in due course. Thank you very much to everyone for your thoughts and I'm sorry if I've offended anyone. I'm simply trying to honestly find my path through this, and I have no agenda against AA for its own sake (although I admit feelings of anger towards this sponsor).
I'm willing to look into secular solutions, but I still have this suspicion I can get AA to work if I find the right sponsor and get the right perspective on it.
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
Tommy,
I have some AA experience but the program I am using to recover is NA. I am an addict, and I abused alcohol but it was not/is not my major issue, addiction is. NA focuses more on addition and it's underlying causes than a specific addiction to a specific substance, and i find I identify more with that approach.
That being said...considering the HP concept. All that is required is willingness. That section of your brain could be your HP, or you can use another term if HP grates on you, I do, when I journal, I don't use HP. I use it when talking 12 step with others, it's the language we communicate in.
I had a friend (sorry to the people who've heard me tell this story umpteen times) who was an avowed atheist (she is dead now, hence the "was" she was an atheist till death as far as I am aware) and she was in a 12 step and she was out to prove them wrong and so she chose a door knob as her HP, and prayed to the damn thing and it worked.
It is the process of praying, meditating, getting honest(humble) that does the job, not the who or what we pray to.
And the manner of prayer matters to, I think. If we are asking something "out there" to change the world for us cause it makes us uncomfortable...I don't think it's going to be effective (which is one of the reasons so many people are atheists, they prayed and didn;t get what they asked for)
But, if we pray, another word that we might need to dissect, that our own attitudes and behaviors and perspectives are altered...if we truly want that and align ourselves with that intent...something positive is bound to happen.
For some people believing in something beyond themselves is more useful. For others visualizing an HP of a specific form helps them focus. Others are very uncomfortable with the idea of some HP outside themselves messing about in their lives. The only requirement is that the HP be loving and we be willing to let it work. Well, can we love ourself? do we beleive ourself (or at least that atrophied part of our brain) is capable of working in our lives?
The HP concept is truly flexible, and truly totally up to us. It takes many of us time to get over our own past history and present understandings of what an HP might be. That is why willingness to investigate that is all that is needed to start the process, as we work it, it begins to make more sense to us.
I have some AA experience but the program I am using to recover is NA. I am an addict, and I abused alcohol but it was not/is not my major issue, addiction is. NA focuses more on addition and it's underlying causes than a specific addiction to a specific substance, and i find I identify more with that approach.
That being said...considering the HP concept. All that is required is willingness. That section of your brain could be your HP, or you can use another term if HP grates on you, I do, when I journal, I don't use HP. I use it when talking 12 step with others, it's the language we communicate in.
I had a friend (sorry to the people who've heard me tell this story umpteen times) who was an avowed atheist (she is dead now, hence the "was" she was an atheist till death as far as I am aware) and she was in a 12 step and she was out to prove them wrong and so she chose a door knob as her HP, and prayed to the damn thing and it worked.
It is the process of praying, meditating, getting honest(humble) that does the job, not the who or what we pray to.
And the manner of prayer matters to, I think. If we are asking something "out there" to change the world for us cause it makes us uncomfortable...I don't think it's going to be effective (which is one of the reasons so many people are atheists, they prayed and didn;t get what they asked for)
But, if we pray, another word that we might need to dissect, that our own attitudes and behaviors and perspectives are altered...if we truly want that and align ourselves with that intent...something positive is bound to happen.
For some people believing in something beyond themselves is more useful. For others visualizing an HP of a specific form helps them focus. Others are very uncomfortable with the idea of some HP outside themselves messing about in their lives. The only requirement is that the HP be loving and we be willing to let it work. Well, can we love ourself? do we beleive ourself (or at least that atrophied part of our brain) is capable of working in our lives?
The HP concept is truly flexible, and truly totally up to us. It takes many of us time to get over our own past history and present understandings of what an HP might be. That is why willingness to investigate that is all that is needed to start the process, as we work it, it begins to make more sense to us.
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