Once More Unto The Breach
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Originally Posted by NobleCause 
I've just finished the last bottle. Here's hoping that was the last bottle.
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Originally Posted by NobleCause
....Point being, I don't take my life or possessions for granted. I am just painfully aware of the impermanence of it all. I've suffered the greatest losses one can suffer, and yet I'm still an insecure, sneaky, selfish drunk, completely out of place in every world that I inhabit. There is no scaring straight, there is only believing that there is available a softer, gentler, deeper way to live. And I'm trying hard to get there. I've just finished the last bottle. Here's hoping that was the last bottle.
You have NOT yet suffered the greatest losses one can suffer. For one, you still have not lost your youth. Not yet.
The young do not appreciate that with age comes wisdom. That is perhaps the greatest narcissism of all.
I have been thinking for weeks about what I can say to you to make you listen, force a pause in your "efforts" to kill yourself. I could think of none. Now you've said them yourself.
You know you have talent. That is clear. What you don't have is the clear-headed humility to understand that it isn't over until it's over.
I appreciate davaidavai having the courage to say what I could not.
I've run out of words.
FT
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Hi again NobleCause,
I just re-read my last post, and I want to say that my heart just aches for your pain, and I think I sounded insensitive about your losses. I don't even know what they are, and I am sincerely sorry for them, whatever they may be.
No one can ever really know the pain of another. We can try to empathize, try to relate, but never really understand.
What I mean by saying you have not yet suffered the greatest losses one can suffer is that I think you under-value your own life. That's all.
You are likely tremendously valuable to more people than you realize. I just wish you considered yourself of greater value.
Everything I just said was meant with the greatest of kindness.
FT
I just re-read my last post, and I want to say that my heart just aches for your pain, and I think I sounded insensitive about your losses. I don't even know what they are, and I am sincerely sorry for them, whatever they may be.
No one can ever really know the pain of another. We can try to empathize, try to relate, but never really understand.
What I mean by saying you have not yet suffered the greatest losses one can suffer is that I think you under-value your own life. That's all.
You are likely tremendously valuable to more people than you realize. I just wish you considered yourself of greater value.
Everything I just said was meant with the greatest of kindness.
FT
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"There is no scaring straight, there is only believing that there is available a softer, gentler, deeper way to live."
There is. I wish you the willingness to embrace it. It's right in front of you. You might have to let go of some things to free up your arms - but - it's there.
There is. I wish you the willingness to embrace it. It's right in front of you. You might have to let go of some things to free up your arms - but - it's there.
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NobleCause,
I, too, am a woman who achieved huge success in a largely male profession. My success was tremendously threatening to others, and I made the mistake of not forming alliances so that my foundation would have more than 3 legs. My number came up, I fell, and I fell hard. Two legs, maybe one. Hard fall. This was fantastic news to many. To me, I lost everything -- career, money, houses, property, cars -- almost husband. This was 11 years ago.
When all of that happened, I wanted nothing more than the world to stop. It didn't stop. Everyone else picked up and moved on. I was unable to move on for a very long time. During this period, most of the advice I was given fell on deaf ears. I didn't want to hear my career was gone. Oh, the physical reality was enough -- leaving town in shame and humiliation. Tears. Nightmares. Always dreaming of what was, not what was to be. I was penniless and homeless for a time. I felt less than zero. Who was I with no profession and no assets? Zero minus.
I don't know what your losses were, but TJT above is right. I was unwilling to embrace the softer, gentler, deeper way to live, and it was right in front of me. Unfortunately, those words angered me more than helped me at the time, but I wish I had listened.
Don't do what I did and let years pass before you let go of the past. I'm on about year 3 of "recovery" from the shambles of my life, so what's that? 8 years of suffering in a nightmarish limbo state of not knowing where to turn?
Eventually, I fell into opiate use, "innocently" enough through major surgery, but I fell just the same. After having quit alcohol years before, I let opiates take me over.
Maybe it took that to shake me up. I don't know. I just know that out of that opiate fog I recognized the real loss was of myself, not my things, not my career. I had to realize that my career was not ME, I had only made it that way. I was my own distorted creation of myself, letting my profession define me. Bad mistake.
I am back, but as a diminished version of my former self. I am so sorry I wasted so many years. That's why I emphasized your youth in the above posts. Later, you will look back and see that life is but a series of "scenarios", some good, some bad. Some people never suffer the severe losses you have. Mine were life-gutting losses, at least I allowed them to be.
I don't mean to make this all about me. But I am so saddened to see what you are doing. I hope you can move past this faster than I did.
FT
I, too, am a woman who achieved huge success in a largely male profession. My success was tremendously threatening to others, and I made the mistake of not forming alliances so that my foundation would have more than 3 legs. My number came up, I fell, and I fell hard. Two legs, maybe one. Hard fall. This was fantastic news to many. To me, I lost everything -- career, money, houses, property, cars -- almost husband. This was 11 years ago.
When all of that happened, I wanted nothing more than the world to stop. It didn't stop. Everyone else picked up and moved on. I was unable to move on for a very long time. During this period, most of the advice I was given fell on deaf ears. I didn't want to hear my career was gone. Oh, the physical reality was enough -- leaving town in shame and humiliation. Tears. Nightmares. Always dreaming of what was, not what was to be. I was penniless and homeless for a time. I felt less than zero. Who was I with no profession and no assets? Zero minus.
I don't know what your losses were, but TJT above is right. I was unwilling to embrace the softer, gentler, deeper way to live, and it was right in front of me. Unfortunately, those words angered me more than helped me at the time, but I wish I had listened.
Don't do what I did and let years pass before you let go of the past. I'm on about year 3 of "recovery" from the shambles of my life, so what's that? 8 years of suffering in a nightmarish limbo state of not knowing where to turn?
Eventually, I fell into opiate use, "innocently" enough through major surgery, but I fell just the same. After having quit alcohol years before, I let opiates take me over.
Maybe it took that to shake me up. I don't know. I just know that out of that opiate fog I recognized the real loss was of myself, not my things, not my career. I had to realize that my career was not ME, I had only made it that way. I was my own distorted creation of myself, letting my profession define me. Bad mistake.
I am back, but as a diminished version of my former self. I am so sorry I wasted so many years. That's why I emphasized your youth in the above posts. Later, you will look back and see that life is but a series of "scenarios", some good, some bad. Some people never suffer the severe losses you have. Mine were life-gutting losses, at least I allowed them to be.
I don't mean to make this all about me. But I am so saddened to see what you are doing. I hope you can move past this faster than I did.
FT
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Originally Posted by FT
I beg to differ.
You have NOT yet suffered the greatest losses one can suffer. For one, you still have not lost your youth. Not yet.
The young do not appreciate that with age comes wisdom. That is perhaps the greatest narcissism of all.
You have NOT yet suffered the greatest losses one can suffer. For one, you still have not lost your youth. Not yet.
The young do not appreciate that with age comes wisdom. That is perhaps the greatest narcissism of all.
Sorry to hear of your rough times. My own career downfall, a dramatic one dragged thru the press and dissected on blogs, was an object of glee for many of my competitors. Oddly tho, that ill will, like wind in my sails, became the necessary fuel for my comeback.
Lovely day for a detox. Going to dip my toe into this well again and hold tight to the one inch of my soul which might not be dead just yet.
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Once More Unto The Breach
N.C. ... we do have a choice. To repeat the past over and over (like Groundhog Day) or go to recovery (as scary and unnatural as that is in the beginning)
I hope God graces your life with the desire to choose the latter.
Wishing you the best.
Bob R.
N.C. ... we do have a choice. To repeat the past over and over (like Groundhog Day) or go to recovery (as scary and unnatural as that is in the beginning)
I hope God graces your life with the desire to choose the latter.
Wishing you the best.
Bob R.
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Originally Posted by NobleCause
To be clear, the loss which I was referencing wasn't a job, a bank account, a home, a legal record, a material possession, a lifestyle or a relationship. Those things come and go, in my experience, and I've learned to stay largely unattached. The loss that I was referencing is something much deeper, something I can't/won't write about. I will say simply that it was life changing in the most fundamental sense, and that it caused me to lose faith in everything. I realize that I need to get over this.
Sorry to hear of your rough times. My own career downfall, a dramatic one dragged thru the press and dissected on blogs, was an object of glee for many of my competitors. Oddly tho, that ill will, like wind in my sails, became the necessary fuel for my comeback.
Lovely day for a detox. Going to dip my toe into this well again and hold tight to the one inch of my soul which might not be dead just yet.
Sorry to hear of your rough times. My own career downfall, a dramatic one dragged thru the press and dissected on blogs, was an object of glee for many of my competitors. Oddly tho, that ill will, like wind in my sails, became the necessary fuel for my comeback.
Lovely day for a detox. Going to dip my toe into this well again and hold tight to the one inch of my soul which might not be dead just yet.
This loss or event didn't make you lose faith in alcohol did it ? You still had faith that it would do something for you. You believed, you purchased or somehow acquired it, you raised it to your lips, the vapors had to hit your nose and somehow tease you with its power, you poured it into your mouth and the ether crawled up your spine into your brain and then what ?
Did you dip your toe into the next drink or was it balls to the wall, jump in head first - let's get right and get wild ?
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Originally Posted by TheJungianThing
You believed, you purchased or somehow acquired it, you raised it to your lips, the vapors had to hit your nose and somehow tease you with its power, you poured it into your mouth and the ether crawled up your spine into your brain and then what ?
Did you dip your toe into the next drink or was it balls to the wall, jump in head first - let's get right and get wild ?
Did you dip your toe into the next drink or was it balls to the wall, jump in head first - let's get right and get wild ?
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,677
What hurts is to become soul-less. You don't describe your loss, probably won't, but that's what has happened. My loss wasn't "just" material -- i.e., career, money, "stuff. My very identity was wrapped up in the "who" of what I was, that inner part of me I gave freely to the detriment of those closest to me. When it was gone, so was I. To have others celebrate that was shocking to me. Perhaps not unlike you, the brutality of that has become the wind in my sails.
You sound soul-less now. You mouth the words, but the substance is lacking. Your heart pours out of you onto paper, and yet even you don't believe. You are analytical yet incapable of applying the analysis. I actually get it.
You sound soul-less now. You mouth the words, but the substance is lacking. Your heart pours out of you onto paper, and yet even you don't believe. You are analytical yet incapable of applying the analysis. I actually get it.
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Originally Posted by FT
You sound soul-less now. You mouth the words, but the substance is lacking. Your heart pours out of you onto paper, and yet even you don't believe. You are analytical yet incapable of applying the analysis. I actually get it.
I didn't mean to start a semantic debate or provoke a contest of scars, and I apologize if this thread has become unproductive or frustrating. Now is likely the time when I should bow out, do what I'll do, and remember some of the wisdom kindly bestowed on me throughout. Thanks, all.
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Lot of people here are invested in you, NC. Voluntarily investing time, ideas, and hope in you. Not just in SR, or fellow alcoholics in general, but in you personally. Thirteen pages, god knows how many words. For whatever reason, a lot of folks are drawn to you, want to see you succeed. The support of fellow humans is always imperfect, but it's support nonetheless. Hang in there. Try to be safe through the withdrawals.
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I understand. And I apologize if I've been critical - it was never my intent to be sharp or ungrateful. I was in particularly bad shape earlier, and not up for feeling judged or unheard. I may have been a bit reactive.
This site has given me far more consideration than deserved, and a level of support that exists nowhere else in my life. I'm a wreck. But I'm truly grateful for every comment and thought contributed to this thread, whether or not I agree with them. It is, even to my wretched heart, touching that any one cares.
This site has given me far more consideration than deserved, and a level of support that exists nowhere else in my life. I'm a wreck. But I'm truly grateful for every comment and thought contributed to this thread, whether or not I agree with them. It is, even to my wretched heart, touching that any one cares.
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Hello NobleCause
Yes it is true. I care. Good to hear from you again. My last post about 10 days ago just sat there to the point I was thinking this thread apparently is finished. I was very happy to see a new post from you and the follow up responses and comments today.
You are quite unique N/C. From paragraph one, I was enthralled merely from your opening story. If I picked up a book and read that, I would have purchased it just to find out where this story is going. I'm still interested, but that's another story maybe to come later.
About S/R and recovery. I know your here posting and it's obviously on your mind. I realize there's not much I am going to say that will either impede or accelerate your recovery. I, you, and everyone here is quite aware of the decadence of addiction.
Definitely sooner or later decision with follow up action, hopefully before it kills or something close to that.
Procrastinate. I know I sure did, knowing all along the final outcome. Luckily and yes I'm bold enough and know enough to say by the grace of God, I'm still here to talk to anyone that's willing to listen. I am grateful and happy to listen to you as well.
You have quite a few genuine, enthusiastic posters on your thread. Even fans in your case. Well I'll speak for myself. I have to agree as you have as well. Fellow human support is going to be imperfect. I know one who post here, that I've known for over a year now on S/R. You brought out vulnerable personal details, I never knew of. I know that took some guts for her to say what she said. Don't get mad and leave OK
N/C. Talk soon
Want to hear my story. I got up today and looked in the mirror. I pointed both index fingers at myself and winking said, Slick 402 days straight. I huffed my nails and polished them on my polyester silk shirt, I'm trying to bring back into retro fashion from Sat. Night
Yes it is true. I care. Good to hear from you again. My last post about 10 days ago just sat there to the point I was thinking this thread apparently is finished. I was very happy to see a new post from you and the follow up responses and comments today.
You are quite unique N/C. From paragraph one, I was enthralled merely from your opening story. If I picked up a book and read that, I would have purchased it just to find out where this story is going. I'm still interested, but that's another story maybe to come later.
About S/R and recovery. I know your here posting and it's obviously on your mind. I realize there's not much I am going to say that will either impede or accelerate your recovery. I, you, and everyone here is quite aware of the decadence of addiction.
Definitely sooner or later decision with follow up action, hopefully before it kills or something close to that.
Procrastinate. I know I sure did, knowing all along the final outcome. Luckily and yes I'm bold enough and know enough to say by the grace of God, I'm still here to talk to anyone that's willing to listen. I am grateful and happy to listen to you as well.
You have quite a few genuine, enthusiastic posters on your thread. Even fans in your case. Well I'll speak for myself. I have to agree as you have as well. Fellow human support is going to be imperfect. I know one who post here, that I've known for over a year now on S/R. You brought out vulnerable personal details, I never knew of. I know that took some guts for her to say what she said. Don't get mad and leave OK
N/C. Talk soon
Want to hear my story. I got up today and looked in the mirror. I pointed both index fingers at myself and winking said, Slick 402 days straight. I huffed my nails and polished them on my polyester silk shirt, I'm trying to bring back into retro fashion from Sat. Night
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Originally Posted by NobleCause
It is, even to my wretched heart, touching that any one cares.
Wretched heart! Wow, if you have a "wretched heart" I wish you'd show me where I could get one of those things. In most of your posts your words are those of a very deep thinking, kind, loving and passionate person. We'd be living in utopia if half the world came equipped with one of those "wretched hearts".
All of my life I never lacked material things, what I was missing was the ability to feel deeply. What you and others on this board have shown me is what that's all about. I've learned that real happiness doesn't come from material things or relationships, it comes from within. You have to be at peace with yourself before you can be at peace with the world around you.
You've worked so hard to rebuild your life, please don't let alcohol/drugs disassemble it. You feel things very deeply NC, maybe that's why you have such a hard time with acceptance and letting go. I know that the loss of your child profoundly hurt you. I've lost many people in my life but I'd be lying if I said I knew what it was like to lose a child, I don't. The void that left in your life must have been horrible, but the love you shared will always be a part of you.
If the truth be told, no one ever really knows what another person is feeling. We all put on our fronts , our happy face, well adjusted appearance we want to project to the world even though we may be in great emotional turmoil. Many of us use alcohol/drugs to buffer our inner pain, it doesn't have to be that way though, there are better ways. Maybe ask yourself just what it is that alcohol is doing for you and make a list of other things that might have the same effect in whole or part. I used things like meditation, exercise, learning new skills etc. Make a list, see what you can come up with. Just some thoughts NC, have a happy Monday!
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Sorry for calling you a narcissist. I apologize if it has nothing to do with that. I wonder if maybe my own depression is still a question of a macho pride in slogging through. If I could just let that drop I could join humanity. Anyways, for what it's worth, I've got a doctors appointment Wed.
I think ordinary people just don't relate to highly successful people with the same problems. We feel like if we had what you have, we would find a way out. But I guess it doesn't work like that. Still, I can't help but feel a little frustrated by you in that way. Maybe it's not just a question of recognizing your gifts, but that maybe you have the resources to live better.
I think ordinary people just don't relate to highly successful people with the same problems. We feel like if we had what you have, we would find a way out. But I guess it doesn't work like that. Still, I can't help but feel a little frustrated by you in that way. Maybe it's not just a question of recognizing your gifts, but that maybe you have the resources to live better.
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