choublak

Then you might get people becoming "alcoholic" just to get free rent.

Terminally Unique

The free rent doesn't need to last forever. It is one thing to provide a way to quit, and quite another to allow people to keep on drinking. If you make shelter conditional on detoxing and continued abstinence, and make people pay or work for their stay after their detox, much like the Salvation Army does, that wouldn't necessarily be bad.

Mark75

There was a time when choice didn't seem applicable.

Justfor1

wantstobehealthy, to some extent yes the government enables. I frequently used my food stamps in certain corner stores that would let me buy booze. Of course I would only get 70cents on the dollar but thats another story. The police in my old neighborhood that let drug sales go on in broad daylight. My free phone that I would get that I would sell only to get another one. AVRT, I agree I think with you. Lots of recovering people don't like to admit their anti-social behavior. Being drunk in public is anti-social. I don't get the impression that alcohol is any longer as socially acceptable as it use to be. I don't think crack/heroin ever was. In my last years of boozing I was frequently cut off in some bars. Of course, I just staggered to a "lower class" one that would serve intoxicated people.

Nightsd

When I was shooting dope I didn't care what society thought of me. I was pretty sick and deluded. The thought of me being a junkie actually cracked me up.

Alcoholics drink to join society and addicts use to leave it. I cannot vouch for the alcoholic part of that statement but it described me pretty well.

When I was using I wished I could have left to another planet. Another one of my antisocial fantasies was that a plague would strike earth killing everyone but me. I literally thought that would be awesome.

I didn't care how society viewed me. I hated society. I did everything I could to set myself apart from it and would have happily died trying, and almost did. I think the reason I had such a venomous hatred of all the "squares" in society was because they prevented me from using. I couldn't understand people that didn't need substances to make themselves happy.

I wasn't at all antisocial before I started using and I noticed when I quit all I wanted to do was make friends. Nowadays I'm back to my social self, I have plenty of friends.

I notice now I replaced relationships with drugs. Once I quit drugs, if I didn't form relationships I would have been miserable.

SindyLuhu

Ha ha! Hey, if Steven Adler and Mackenzie Phillips can be famous for it, why can,t we? LOL

choublak

But since then you have made some choices, including joining and participating in this forum.

LaFemme

Society delighted in watching Amy Winehouse self destruct publically and then mocked her for dying. Yes there is an unkindness towards addicts in our society.

Terminally Unique

The thing is, addiction creates an illusion of powerlessness, hopelessness, and despair that is extremely powerful, and which appears to grip tighter the more you struggle against it. So, yes, I do agree with you that it is a choice, but I also understand that someone who is addicted literally feels trapped.

I always tell people in the grip of addiction to never give up, and that anyone can quit, regardless of how long they've been addicted. Someone who cannot see clearly needs to be told, sometimes repeatedly, that they can indeed make a different choice. Otherwise, they are likely to resign themselves to their perceived fate.

raindancer11

I think there is too much money flowing in to take the measures necessary to address the problem at the source so we put people in jail, in hospitals and bury them. My experience is that it's only a choice when it hasn't become a problem and when it's a problem, the awareness of choice is gone. For some, it's a problem from the very first drink. For me, it was progressive.

soberlicious

I agree...but addiction is such a difficult thing to understand. I know that when I drinking/using pills, I was extrememly nasty. I think that other's unkindness to me was warranted. I basically called the shots...no one was going to tell me what to do. I told all family members/friends I would cut them off from seeing my kids and from me forever if they brought the subject up again, so they had no choice really but to watch me self-destruct (with my kids in tow). Looking back, I realize how horrible it must have been for them, but at the time I did not care...at all. I finally got to the point of no return and they were legally able to intervene, but even that would not have helped though had I not decided I had had enough and was quitting for good...it was like I flipped a switch and said "I'm done" and I meant it. It was bizaare...like I just stepped off that ride. So AA, SMART, RR, etc etc all work to help people quit...but only once that person decides for really real. Many people don't ever hit a bottom so to speak, but they decide they are done with alcohol. Some people hit bottom after bottom...Why is it harder to flip that switch for some people and some never flip it? It seems to me it's not really about finding a way to quit...it's about personally deciding you are done with it. But that's the thing...no program, group, institution, or person make someone sincerely decide that. and sadly for those like Amy Winehouse, they do decide but it's too late.

Bamboozle

It doesn't take being an alcoholic to lie. I know plently of nonaddicts who have done similar things. Guess everyone exhibits antisocial behavior?


Anywho, society hates a lot of things. I can understand the mentality of people asserting that they don't care what people think (and I think that can be a healthy attitude to have), but I also realize it does matter what society thinks. I know I don't live in a bubble--society does a lot of things to treat certain groups of people with disdain and discrimination (this includes and goes beyond addicts).

Bamboozle

There may be no hope for your AH...I don't know your story, but what some people consider 'enabling' has saved people. My parents took me in...I drank another year in their house before I managed to quit. If it wasn't for them I wouldn't have made it. I'm thankful for their support. Coming up on 2.5 year sober.

soberlicious

I was just thinking the same thing bamboozle...elderly, poor, disabled, uneducated, unemployed, the list goes on and on...lots of groups of people are looked down on, discriminated against, seen as sucking the system dry etc. when in reality these folks can and do contribute to society, just as addicts do.

Sure addiction costs the system in different ways, but there is also the stereotypical pillar of society that is fleecing the IRS or skimming at work...some folks are just better at hiding their shenanigans than others.

choublak

And that's what I mean about making choices. People with cancer do not have the option/luxury of personally deciding they are done. Alcoholics do. And yet some people describe alcoholism as if it were cancer, that it took their loved one away from them.

choublak

Speaking of hiding, I have read some stuff on here that is just gross. Hiding alcohol in containers that initially held bleach, detergent, hair products. Mixing vodka with mouthwash and chugging it (or just chugging the mouthwash itself). I wonder what makes some alcoholics do this but not all.

wanttobehealthy

That's great that you were able to get sober and that your parents helped you with a place to live. I have no idea what enabling is or isn't anymore either. I've stayed with my AH, given him a million chances, asked him to leave and then let him stay, helped him find a job, helped him keep a job etc etc etc... I've been told that all of this is enabling since he's never had to fall on his face and figure it out for himself.

Congrats on 2.5 yrs of sobriety. I hope that my AH will make the choice to get himself some help too before it's too late.

Justfor1

It depends on what stage the alcoholic is in. I have resorted to drinking many household items that contained alcohol. I even use to eat the hand sanitizer in the hospital because it had alcohol in it. I'm guessing you are not an alcoholic? In prison/jail they make homemade alcohol. If one wants to drink one will find the way. Is that why society hates me because I'm so sneaky?

newby1961

Instead of judging others on how far down the scale they have gone, I had better be thanking God I haven't reached that level yet!

YET = Your Eligible too

Terminally Unique

There is always hope. No one is hopeless. No one.

This is true. Not everything is enabling, and one need not hit the literal gutter in order to quit. That said, while I would certainly give shelter to a family member in distress, I would not allow them to drink for a year in my house if drink was the root of their distress. That would be a disservice, IMO.