HuskyPup

Thanks, I think this is very much the case.

Feeling well, here, 45 days along; and again, am finding many helpful tools gleaned from various approaches. This has what worked best for me, after trying more single minded approaches in the past.

I wish everyone success in whatever path they choose, and am constantly aware that there is no one program or answer that will solve everyone's addiction problems. This has been very liberating, and has encouraged tremendous growth.

Zencat

Although I was willing to do anything to get and stay sober, I also needed to have that kind of "drive" to find a meaningful way to do it. One problem I had in active addiction is that I did a whole lot of meaningless things. I was not going to carry-over that into my addiction treatment.

One mans meat is another mans poison.

True, I did not know what to do in the beginning of my alcohol free lifestyle. So I sought understanding through information. First from the library, then online. An eye opener for sure. I was also very fortunate early on in recovery to have had a deep understanding of who I was and what I needed to become. And interesting enough, I killed off a whole bunch of gray matter "out there", however I wasn't brain dead.

I'm only alive, to the dismay of others, in and outside of recovery circles because of a personal suited addiction treatment plan.

What I can add, its "to each their own" - "recovery is not contest of who's right or who's wrong" - its "live and let live".

Its a funny thing. I used (a work in progress) to see recovery divided into modality camps. There was my side, then there was my recovery adversaries, foe's, combatants, the "bad guy's". True, there are many ways to recover, with specific or not, ways to do it. I'm not seeing it so 'black and white' as I have before. I do feel compelled to support what has worked for me and countless others, to borrow a phrase form AA, yet why be so bull headed about it (speaking of myself only).

Thanks for the thread Husky. And thanks Stugotz for something to think about. You do what you need to do Husky. I've got your back bro and all that venture into a new way to live, addiction free, as all can recover regardless who has to say what, me included

dawnrunner

HuskyPup, I am glad to read that you are not bailing on your meetings just yet. I think early recovery is a precarious time to be seeking a broad theoretical framework that is completely harmonious, and also to be feeling judged and judging. I speak from the following experience:

Several years ago, I went through treatment and then located a 'home' AA meeting to which I committed myself. This meeting turned out to be dominated by about 5 rather loud guys who were also youth sports coaches, back-slappers, crotch-adjusters, and good old boys. My first few times speaking, I got a cold stare from the Coaches Club and my words dropped into an embarrassing void. A very nice woman talked to me after meetings and even offered to be my sponsor, but I chose to focus on the guys I found so bothersome.

Very handy for me as it provided a perfect excuse for a 3-year bender.

Don't make my mistake. Best wishes in your journey!

soberlicious

I am not ever offended by that statement. I think "puzzled" would be a more apt descriptor.

again, puzzled...
I have never had that experience.
Sure I have rationalized, justified, and relapsed in the past, but not because I was thinking too much. I did it because I was rationalizing and justifying. However, if it were to compromise one's serenity or cause one to relapse then it certainly would be a good idea to stop thinking altogthe


I don't either.

Boleo

I agree. It was not "too much thinking' that got me into trouble for my first few years in recovery. It was delusional thinking that caused my trouble.

I now believe that there is no such thing as "too much thinking". I find myself thinking now more than ever. However; Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism and existentialism have taught me that thinking is not entirely reliable when seeking the truth in self-appraisal.

I needed to experience a spiritual awakening to see some true humility - the truth about my self, the truth about my disease and the truth about my potential to change.

"No man can get to the truth without God's help".
- Soren Kierkegaard

Terminally Unique

I really don't care how anyone quits. What I do mind is when people project their ideas about recovery onto others, such as "nobody can do it alone," "you need support," etc. I especially do not like it when "in recovery" types (friends, coworkers, etc) tell my family about their ideas, and they then repeat it to me as if they were gospel.

24hrsAday

worth repeating: keep it simple!

Mark75

Well, soberlicious, sorry you are puzzled. The concept of over intellectualization as being not helpful in early (thanx Boleo) recovery did not originate with me, or AA even... Though it is a frequent topic of discussion within AA groups.... Actually I don't know where... But it resonated with me when I first heard it.

My experience is just that and if it isn't helpful to you, or more importantly, the OP... That's cool.

miamifella

I think you have to be willing to try anything that can get you sober. But obviously the people at the meeting thought there were some lengths one should not go to. I recently found out the the three people who were the worst (attacking newcomers for not knowing the program, telling me not to ask for help in my share, etc.) all went out. I realize now that there were in a bad place in their recovery. I suspect that those people who felt it necessary to take your inventory and act on it, are in a bad place.

It does sound as if AA is helpful to you. Which makes it baffling when someone here suggests that you are "not happy with the program." You sound quite happy with it. If 12-step programs help you in your recovery, grasp it firmly and do not let idiots take it away from you. But if it is not helpful, turn over every rock till you find something that will.

soberlicious

LOL no need for an apology, mark. Being puzzled is not a bad thing. It pushes me to keep an open mind, which is important for me in my recovery.

It doesn't matter where it originated, or how many support it, it is still a theory. It has not been my experience. That is all that I shared.

I strongly related to the OP's feeling of dissonance. That's why I posted. Hearing all experiences is helpful to me, even those I disagree with. That's why I love SR. It is nice to be able to discuss differences without becoming combative or snide.

miamifella

Sorry--I deleted part of my last post, which left a reference hanging. What I left out was that I eventually left 12-step programs (after many years) because of the barrage of criticism that I and others faced whenever we shared personal information that did not demonstrate "personal" recovery. There were three people at one meeting in particular who went after new people and anyone who admitted any weakness or doubt. I recently found out that they all went out.

Mark75

Yes it is.

I do believe though that the idea of over-intellectualization is not only an AA idea... well I know it isn't... I first heard it when I was in treatment, by a non-AA therapist... I resented the hell out of it when I was frequently called on it.... (Well, truth be told, I resented the hell out of treatment in general... it wasn't my idea.).... I mentioned I had some experience with it.



A couple of people in this thread has suggested that HuskyPup might want to look at that issue himself. Not to be mean or critical of the OP... NOT AT ALL... I'm glad you are here HuskyPup, I enjoy your posts. We have more in common that we have differences.

Plus, we are on the same side.

Beebizzy

Me too.

BB

sugarbear1

Did you know that one of the last things Bill W. said was that "AA must and will change over time?"

Mark75

AA the fellowship, must change... It already has... some for the better, some not so much.

Hopefully the core program will not.

Terminally Unique

While I certainly never agreed with much of the anti-intellectualism in recovery circles, my own method of recovery is decidedly anti-intellectual in practice. If I even try to argue with or dispute the Addictive Voice in any way, I might as well just go straight to the liquor cabinet, because my AV will always find some reason to drink and counter any argument to the contrary.

In that respect, I do keep it VERY simple.

Mark75

Exactly.

onlythetruth

Same here. I'm also not fond of anti-intellectualism, whether in recovery circles or elsewhere. But when it comes to abstinence from alcohol, there's no brain power involved. It has been a very simple, basic decision from the very start.

Mark75

Agreed

seek

I am not an alcoholic, but I do resonate with your post . . . first of all, there are many different personality types and some people are more analytical and intellectual than others - that alone should not be demonized, from my perspective.

I think you make many valid points and observations . . . I also think maybe "take what you like and leave the rest" will help you get the support you need, without swallowing all of the theory whole. I was in Alanon for many years and learned to work my own customized program . . .the meetings were good because they are vibrationally uplifting (see "Power Vs. Force) . . .and I did learn a lot in meetings.

One point for consideration concerning "ego" - inflated and deflated are both ego aberations (sp.?), so to speak . . .they are both different expressions of the same "problem" (this could be very complex so I will leave that for you to ponder if the spirit moves you) . . .

You do bring up a good point for consideration, though. There are different kinds of alcoholics I have observed . . .there is the classic selfish, ego-inflated kind, and there is the sensitive, thoughtful intellectual kind (and there are probably a bunch of different kinds in between) . . .the point is that I personally believe the material was written more for the former kind than the latter . . .and maybe the former kind is also more vocal and visible in meetings.

I think you are wise to note what does and doesn't work for you - meetings would seem to be crucial in early recovery, no matter what the differences of opinion . . .maybe just don't share aspects of your program that you know will be challenged by traditional thought. What does your sponsor say about this problem (if you have one)? I would think you might need a thoughtful, intellectual sponsor . . .