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Questions to help an alcoholic

Old 04-26-2012, 05:54 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by DayTrader View Post
Sounds like you've got a good handle on it. Sure would have applied to me......

I'm with you on the rehab/vacation deal. I can hear myself saying the same thing. Really though, does he think he's going to run into someone there who's NOT in the same boat? lol. "Oh, I'll go to rehab but it has to be in Cali and it's $25k." please...... the three facilities I'm familiar with in Michigan all do similar things: dry you out safely, give you some information, and BEG you to do AA starting the DAY you get out. Those that take their recovery seriously once they're out of rehab have a great shot. Those that hope the experience of rehab will last and keep them sober......they don't get good results.

FWIW, alkies and addicts are among some of THE most accomplished liars and manipulators I've ever met.....PERIOD. yay us! lol

Yea, I really don't believe anything he says anymore. I really thought that he had a handle on it until I saw him hammered two weeks ago at around noon. My wife says that he goes to bed early at 7pm not too long after work. For all we know, he is hammering the beers until he passes out. It just bothers me a lot because I see him just killing himself and his parents just taking the easy route... Doing nothing.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:05 PM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by roncampb View Post
It just bothers me a lot because I see him just killing himself and his parents just taking the easy route... Doing nothing.
I know.....

Sometimes though, it's best to do NOTHING vs possible enable....or soften the blow of the choices he's made. NOBODY or NOTHING was going to get me to stop if there was any chance I could keep it up. I drank....NO MATTER WHAT! The more I heard, please stop...slow down.....look at you.... the more I'd just do it to spite ppl - to prove I WAS the master of my ship.
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:18 PM
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I am an alcoholic. I have been sober + in AA for 20 years. It's basically free.

There is NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that ANYone could have said or done to get me to stop drinking BEFORE I was ready. I lost my home, my job and custody of my son - I continued to drink. When I was ready, I sought help.

This man KNOWS you/his family cares. That is ALL YOU CAN DO. YOU cannot fix him. YOU cannot save him. I'd have been thrilled if my family had given me 1/2 as much attention as what you're giving him. But I would not have stopped drinking because of it.

The ONLY person you can change is YOU. Period. Exclamation point. THAT is how you can best help him.

My husband is also an alcoholic. He struggles to maintain sobriety. AL-ANON is a wonderful thing. If you're not up to attending a meeting, check out some of their liturature from the library. "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drew was also a godsend and an eye-opener for me.

You CANNOT "love someone sober." For God's sake, start taking care of YOU. From personal experience I'll tell you : you WILL go insane if you don't.

Blue
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Old 04-27-2012, 04:21 AM
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Bring him to a Church - a good Christian church. If you, as a friend or other people can't help him, probably GOD would and GOD shall for sure.
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Old 04-27-2012, 04:36 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by BlueMoon View Post
ee.

There is NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that ANYone could have said or done to get me to stop drinking BEFORE I was ready. I lost my home, my job and custody of my son - I continued to drink. When I was ready, I sought help.

This man KNOWS you/his family cares. That is ALL YOU CAN DO. YOU cannot fix him. YOU cannot save him. I'd have been thrilled if my family had given me 1/2 as much attention as what you're giving him. But I would not have stopped drinking because of it.

The ONLY person you can change is YOU. Period. Exclamation point. THAT is how you can best help him.

Blue
Blue is basically right. Until he is ready there will be no change. You can express support once they are in recovery, but until they decide they need some help and can seek it out, they are alone.

And AA is local and free, a rehab unless there are pressing medical reasons will not help.
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:27 AM
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I don't have an addicted family member, but I know many who do and they have found this book useful:

Get Your Loved One Sober: Alternatives to Nagging, Pleading, and Threatening – Robert J. Meyers, Ph.D., and Brenda L. Wolfe, Ph.D.
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by BillyPilgrim View Post
Blue is basically right. Until he is ready there will be no change. You can express support once they are in recovery, but until they decide they need some help and can seek it out, they are alone.

And AA is local and free, a rehab unless there are pressing medical reasons will not help.

So you say that I should just keep giving him good advice, but that is basically it? I'm not pushing anything on him. But he knows that I don't like how he drinks a lot. He has asked me before when he's been real drunk if I am upset. He has done this numerous times. I basically just tell him that drinking in moderation is fine. But when you do it in high levels, it is poison. And that it kills our productivity. Like when he came up this weekend, he asked if I drink up here. And, I said that I've probably had 4 beers since I've moved in which is over a month period. I hope the hints are paying off. I really think that he wants to change.

When he came up this weekend, he held himself together fine. Probably had 16 beers over a two day period. Which I guess could be an improvement but still way too much in my opinion.

But to get back to my question. Are you guys saying that doing nothing is better?
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueMoon View Post
I am an alcoholic. I have been sober + in AA for 20 years. It's basically free.

There is NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that ANYone could have said or done to get me to stop drinking BEFORE I was ready. I lost my home, my job and custody of my son - I continued to drink. When I was ready, I sought help.

This man KNOWS you/his family cares. That is ALL YOU CAN DO. YOU cannot fix him. YOU cannot save him. I'd have been thrilled if my family had given me 1/2 as much attention as what you're giving him. But I would not have stopped drinking because of it.

The ONLY person you can change is YOU. Period. Exclamation point. THAT is how you can best help him.

My husband is also an alcoholic. He struggles to maintain sobriety. AL-ANON is a wonderful thing. If you're not up to attending a meeting, check out some of their liturature from the library. "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drew was also a godsend and an eye-opener for me.

You CANNOT "love someone sober." For God's sake, start taking care of YOU. From personal experience I'll tell you : you WILL go insane if you don't.

Blue

Thanks for the advice. I have a certain level of understanding because I'm had some anxiety issues in the past that i've over came such as panic attacks, nausea stuff like that. I've never had alcohol issues. But I hope that I can pull what i've learned from my past anxiety and apply it to his situation. Mainly that, its extremely difficult to overcome these issues so we must have patience.

His parents def show a lot of care for him. But, I wish that they'd at least make an attempt to try to talk to him about this alcohol issue. Not to the point of condemning him. But just that they know that he is struggling with it, and that they are there to show support.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:14 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by roncampb View Post
So you say that I should just keep giving him good advice, but that is basically it? I'm not pushing anything on him. But he knows that I don't like how he drinks a lot. He has asked me before when he's been real drunk if I am upset. He has done this numerous times. I basically just tell him that drinking in moderation is fine. But when you do it in high levels, it is poison. And that it kills our productivity. Like when he came up this weekend, he asked if I drink up here. And, I said that I've probably had 4 beers since I've moved in which is over a month period. I hope the hints are paying off. I really think that he wants to change.

When he came up this weekend, he held himself together fine. Probably had 16 beers over a two day period. Which I guess could be an improvement but still way too much in my opinion.

But to get back to my question. Are you guys saying that doing nothing is better?
Most emphatically : you should NOT keep giving him “good advice.” Saying something more than once or twice IS pushing. It’s nagging. It’s being manipulative and controlling. You are trying to control HIS life.

He KNOWS you care. He KNOWS you don’t like him drinking to excess. Drop it.

What an alcoholic says when drinking means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Trust me. I’ve lived on one side or the other of that one for 54 years. He does not give a good godd*mn about what YOU or anyone else thinks. “HINTS” are NOT EVER going to pay off. HE KNOWS. He will NOT stop until HE is ready. Period.

Quit nagging . . . and you ARE nagging. It sounds like his parents are dealing with this in a healthier manner.

I AM saying that YOU need to take care of YOU. You need to learn how to Let Go of HIS situation. YOU are the only person YOU have ANY control over. Love him enough to let HIM run HIS life. What he does with it is HIS business. HIS choice. Not yours.

You CANNOT “love somebody well.”

Blue
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueMoon View Post
Most emphatically : you should NOT keep giving him “good advice.” Saying something more than once or twice IS pushing. It’s nagging. It’s being manipulative and controlling. You are trying to control HIS life.

He KNOWS you care. He KNOWS you don’t like him drinking to excess. Drop it.

What an alcoholic says when drinking means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Trust me. I’ve lived on one side or the other of that one for 54 years. He does not give a good godd*mn about what YOU or anyone else thinks. “HINTS” are NOT EVER going to pay off. HE KNOWS. He will NOT stop until HE is ready. Period.

Quit nagging . . . and you ARE nagging. It sounds like his parents are dealing with this in a healthier manner.

I AM saying that YOU need to take care of YOU. You need to learn how to Let Go of HIS situation. YOU are the only person YOU have ANY control over. Love him enough to let HIM run HIS life. What he does with it is HIS business. HIS choice. Not yours.

You CANNOT “love somebody well.”

Blue

Ok, when I say 'good advice', I'm not just talking about alcohol. I don't bring it up all that much.

But my point is that it is not as easy as saying, ok I will let him run his life.... Because if he drinks like this when he is around me, he has the potential to destroy things and cause major problems that I have to deal with. When he comes up here, I have to take care of him. He isn't running anything by himself. He is depending on other people to take care of him, and that is when I start getting upset. Granted, he has gotten better and that hasn't happened in a while.

His parents method is healthier?? Let him kill himself and don't say a thing? Not even recommend therapy? I don't buy it.
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:40 PM
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Well if his drinking is affecting your life, I would suggest alanon and some healthy boundaries. I don't allow active addicts or alcoholics into my home. I don't do things for people they can do for themselves. If someone I know is driving drunk, I'll call the cops. I'm not taking part in anyone else's addiction. If he wanted to get sober, there's many resources for that.. and so far you've not mentioned that you're an addictions psychologist or a treatment center. Detachment with love. You're protecting him from reaching his 'bottom' whatever that might be.. and loving him to death.

Just my .02.. I've sat on all sides of this fence.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:18 PM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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My husband of 20 years is currently in the county jail on alcohol-related charges. He could be headed to prison. There was NOTHING that I could have done to prevent/curtail his drinking that night. YES, that causes me great pain. If I have come off as harsh, I sincerely apologize. This topic hits VERY close to home. There are many people that I love deeply who are alcoholics . . . some sober . . . some not. That said :

No. I KNOW this is not EASY. But sometimes it really is that SIMPLE. (Subtle but important difference!)

Someone’s drinking “in general” and that same person drinking around ME are 2 very different things. Since I first got sober my MAIN BOUNDARY has been “Don’t have alcohol in you when you are around me. Period.” That includes everyone in my life. I don’t need the insanity any more.

But as far as the “drinking in general” . . . I have had to learn the HARD way that I can’t fix/stop/whatever anyone but myself. That was a VERY painful thing to realize. If they need an ambulance, I will call 911 . . . otherwise, they can sleep in the front yard and if the police come, THAT IS NOT MY PROBLEM. Yes, that sounds harsh. Trust me, it’s really, really not.

I think the “trick” to all of this is that I need to let others live their own lives, make their own mistakes because that’s the only way that I learned. If people had kept on rescuing me and there by preventing the consequences of my actions, I never would have gotten sober. I never would have learned anything. I would still be drinking. I would still be trying to "fix" everyone in sight. The ONLY person I can take care of is ME. I find that when I’m not busy trying to rescue and FIX my husband, I’m free to love him a heckuva lot more. I know that must sound like insanity right now . . .

If my husband passes out on the living room floor CARETAKING/ENABLING is when I try to drag his unconscious body up the stairs, undress him, put his jammies on and put him into bed. On the other hand, CARING is when I put a blanket on him and go up to bed alone.

The best thing I have EVER done for my husband (and all the other alcoholics in my life) was to start taking care of ME and stop trying to fix HIM/THEM. My mind is SO much calmer . . . even in bad times.

THAT is really what I’m trying to say to you. TAKE CARE OF YOU FIRST. If you can’t/don’t do that, you will have nothing to give anyone else.

I can’t say enough good things about Al-anon. Check out some of their literature from the library. It has given me a peace of mind that I never knew before. THAT is what I would wish for YOU as well. Give it a shot. It couldn’t hurt. It might help. Ya never know til you try.


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Old 05-02-2012, 05:58 PM
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After prolong use of alcohol say yrs. It takes away mind function we were basically pickled by alcohol. There's not much you can do unless he wants help with his drinking problem. You may suggest aa or alcohol treatment center that will help even if he does not want to go to treatment if he would go he would have the tools to quit when he is ready treatment is good for the alcoholic. Keep trying he may turn around. By the grace of God.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueMoon View Post
My husband of 20 years is currently in the county jail on alcohol-related charges. He could be headed to prison. There was NOTHING that I could have done to prevent/curtail his drinking that night. YES, that causes me great pain. If I have come off as harsh, I sincerely apologize. This topic hits VERY close to home. There are many people that I love deeply who are alcoholics . . . some sober . . . some not. That said :

No. I KNOW this is not EASY. But sometimes it really is that SIMPLE. (Subtle but important difference!)

Someone’s drinking “in general” and that same person drinking around ME are 2 very different things. Since I first got sober my MAIN BOUNDARY has been “Don’t have alcohol in you when you are around me. Period.” That includes everyone in my life. I don’t need the insanity any more.

But as far as the “drinking in general” . . . I have had to learn the HARD way that I can’t fix/stop/whatever anyone but myself. That was a VERY painful thing to realize. If they need an ambulance, I will call 911 . . . otherwise, they can sleep in the front yard and if the police come, THAT IS NOT MY PROBLEM. Yes, that sounds harsh. Trust me, it’s really, really not.

I think the “trick” to all of this is that I need to let others live their own lives, make their own mistakes because that’s the only way that I learned. If people had kept on rescuing me and there by preventing the consequences of my actions, I never would have gotten sober. I never would have learned anything. I would still be drinking. I would still be trying to "fix" everyone in sight. The ONLY person I can take care of is ME. I find that when I’m not busy trying to rescue and FIX my husband, I’m free to love him a heckuva lot more. I know that must sound like insanity right now . . .

If my husband passes out on the living room floor CARETAKING/ENABLING is when I try to drag his unconscious body up the stairs, undress him, put his jammies on and put him into bed. On the other hand, CARING is when I put a blanket on him and go up to bed alone.

The best thing I have EVER done for my husband (and all the other alcoholics in my life) was to start taking care of ME and stop trying to fix HIM/THEM. My mind is SO much calmer . . . even in bad times.

THAT is really what I’m trying to say to you. TAKE CARE OF YOU FIRST. If you can’t/don’t do that, you will have nothing to give anyone else.

I can’t say enough good things about Al-anon. Check out some of their literature from the library. It has given me a peace of mind that I never knew before. THAT is what I would wish for YOU as well. Give it a shot. It couldn’t hurt. It might help. Ya never know til you try.


bright blessings
Blue

You aren't being harsh. I just don't think I understood where you were getting at. And, I completely agree with how you say to respond to alcoholics.

To be honest, I was probably enabling him for a while before I even knew he was an alcoholic. I just figured he was young, drank too much every now and then and needed some help in those situations. It has happened to everybody a few times during college or what not. But then I started seeing a regular pattern of it, and that was when I got involved. And, I agree. I can't fix anybody. I know this. But he isn't a stubborn guy, and he is always asking for advice. So, I give it to him very willingly. It usually isn't about alcohol but it does relate to it sometimes. But when he asks me if I'm upset when he is drunk, I will say yes. I'm not going to lie.

And, I think he knows not to get hammered around me, because I don't have patience for it. And at least around me, it has stopped. But, I'm not around him much anymore nor will I be in the future.

I know that I have a lot to learn with this. Its something I'm continuing to learn about as I am here talking to you guys. But, I feel that his parents are enabling him big time. That is my concern.

This might sound bad, but I don't really stress about this. I have so much else going on in my life that I really don't have time to worry about this a lot. But, I also don't want to dry my hands of this problem either cause I don't think that is right. I know, I can't fix him. And, it is up to him. But, his parents baby him so much which is why I see this enabling that you are talking about to go on forever.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by roncampb View Post
. . . This might sound bad, but I don't really stress about this. . . .
Nope! Doesn't sound bad at all!

(it's very late + I have a big day tomorrow - will try to get back to "our" conversation soon)

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