mikefreak

I think so. I was at the point that if I had booze in the house, I didn't need YOU or ANYBODY.........



I'll be paying for that the rest of my life.

Gwizz

You probably wouldn't run into very many cured alcoholics as their life has moved on, they no longer associate themselves in that circle anymore, they have ruined most of their life and moved on.
You could probably walk into a restaurant next week and see a couple their sharing a a bottle of wine, but how do you know if this chap didn't have an alcohol problem in his teens(you don't) EX- Alcoholics don't normally advertise themselves you will find.

BunnyLoves

My dad was an alcoholic, it killed him in the end BUT he was the most unselfish person I have ever known. However, I was outside on my patio, sucking on my electronic cigarette and drinking a soda, tears trickling down my cheeks, because I couldn't stop thinking about how selfish I AM, and I am so ashamed! It's the next thing I need to work on.

aussieblue

I would say some of my behaviour was selfish but I dont think you can lump everyone in the same basket and say we are all the same.

Mark75

Yea, we are different. But alcoholism is pretty much one and the same for all of us. Alcoholism is as selfish as selfish gets.

Supercrew

If you don't look out for #1 you step in #2. Humans are selfish and for good reason. I was selfish when I was drinking. I am still selfish and I don't drink.

Being that I may be selfish with my time, selfish for my family, maybe selfish with my money sometimes doesn't mean I am not charitable and a good person as well.

I was very selfish about my drinking because I thought it meant alot to me and I didn't want to stop for anything. Just because I quit drinking doesn't mean I became Mother Teresa. I just became a person who doesn't drink anymore.

It has made me much happier, and more willing to spend time with my family, and not as lazy due to hangovers, but I'm basically the same person.

Supercrew

It sounds funny, but it works.

Soberpotamus

My actions were often selfish. My lack of action was also selfish. My intent, on the other hand, wasn't always selfish. But, ultimately, I was choosing to do something that trumped most everything else in my life. And I was making this choice on a near daily basis.

I have to agree with Supercrew... our personalities don't automatically change once we quit drinking. I think by not drinking, we are allowing for the possibility of great change and evolution. And only when emotional growth happens can we change those deeply ingrained personality quirks that pervade.

Everyone's selfish, we're human. Altruism doesn't make us any less imperfect, we're primarily concerned with our own survival (and those of our children, biologically and genetically on the basest of levels). But allowing the fog & haze of alcohol addiction to lift... we're going to make it possible to evolve to a better human level

mercurial me

Generous in my spirit but selfish with my alcoholism, if that makes sense.
I've always been the type of guy to help out my family, friends & coworkers to a fault. Always put my fiance's needs first.

Except when it comes to my alcoholism. I can always internally justify why I need to drink and if someone calls me on my alcoholism my first reaction is reminding them of all of the things I've done for them and how little they've done for me. Toxic, cyclical cycle.

Terminally Unique

So, those who can quit on their own never had the problem in the first place? Remember, you too can be undiagnosed.

There are many who would be more than happy to do it...

Terminally Unique

Not all alcoholics are selfish per se, but addiction does necessarily breed a certain level of selfishness in those who are addicted. Their drug of choice becomes their higher power, their guiding star, their prime loyalty. Once they quit and take the drugs out of the equation, however, they do not necessarily remain selfish, unless that character trait was pre-existing.

Ranger

Susan's handful of first person references make clear her intent to relay personal experience.

On the whole, the fact any one person's experience doesn't match another's is hardly remarkable.

If you find the content of Susan's share wholly disagreeable, please consider taking from it Susan's practice of minimizing statements framed as incontrovertible truths.

Terminally Unique

Susan has never struck me as someone who cannot defend or explain her own statements, but saying "If I could solve my alcoholism through willpower and strength, then I wouldn't be an alcoholic" necessarily suggests that those who can were never alcoholic in the first place. In any case, inserting a first person reference does not mitigate a generalization. Allow me to demonstrate with an example. Suppose I wrote the following:

"When they told me that I was 'an alcoholic' and that I had a disease which I was powerless over, I felt pleasantly relieved, since my continued drunkenness could now be explained away as a symptom. I somehow suspected, though, that there is no such thing as 'an alcoholic' who is powerless over bodily desire, and that I was just a drunk with a doctor's excuse. When I finally did quit, this suspicion was proven correct. This was my experience."

Technically, the first person reference would suggest that I am sharing "my" experience with that statement, but that's still not a very nice to say, is it?

Ranger

AVRT, I respect your knowledge on the subject of addiction. You have much to contribute and will do so with increasing effectiveness as you mature in sobriety. Rather than a place to extend challenges and take pot-shots at AA, I hope SR provides a place for you to learn, practice inclusion and extend grace towards disagreeable, perceived generalizations.

onlythetruth

AVRT, I too respect your knowledge on the subject of addiction and I applaud you for continuing to share your own experience of recovery. It is very similar to my own. I too view things from an empowerment-based, non-12-step perspective, and am glad to find others here who feel the same way.

OTT

Mark75

Just don't let that go to your head AVRT...

sugarbear1

Take alcohol away and the sick person remains in me
Alcohol is a symptom, now I must change from the angry person to someone who acts my age. I am emotionally immature
I'm 50 an act like a 2 year old.

I'd rather be sober than right today.

And, yes I just yelled over the phone witm my ex-boyfriend...I am nowhere near grown up.

Terminally Unique

I'm sure Susan will be back to chime in and put me in my place. :-)

This topic is somewhat fresh in my mind, since I was at a meeting not too long ago, and someone was going non-linear because they had gone on a trip and someone was talking about alcoholism and how it was all about willpower, and other people thought that this person was wise. I'm not entirely sure it is about "willpower" per se, since addiction does cloud one's judgment, and some people might never figure out how to beat it without some guidance.

That said, though, I think people don't quite realize that one ought to be very careful how this is presented, because it can have the precise opposite of the intended effect in those who haven't experienced it. There is already a backlash brewing in response to a perceived evasion of responsibility, in the form of the "addiction is a choice" movement, and people are not only reading it, but apparently also agreeing with it.

wellwisher

Technically, the first person reference would suggest that I am sharing "my" experience with that statement, but that's still not a very nice to say, is it?

*****
Actually, you are right; it isn't.

How are your posts any different from a Big Book Thumper? You seem to be a small book thumper.

Who are you? We know what you stand for, but what in your "personal" experience can we see that we can glean some experience, strength and hope.

I know you don't drink. I know you used AVRT to achieve that.

What in your personal experience makes you so angry about other treatment methods? I can see AVRT working in the flash card format, but as far as the ramblings of Jack Trimpey, I see no value. He is an angry man. That's my opinion. You know what they say about opinions. I'm for any program that gets you to stop drinking and using. It is the program bashing that gets to me.

What makes you so angry? What keeps your life personal, but lets you take any opportunity to cut the achilles tendon of someone who puts their experience out there. I know a lot of bullies who carry big mouths, big sticks and big opinions and use people's vulnerabilities as a weapon. Is it working for ya?

I'll take a program that DOES let me investigate a character defect and change it anyday.

You may have killed the beast, but I wonder if that beast was nothing more than a hurt puppy?


Who is the AVRT sitting behind the keyboard, ranting at AA and cutting down anyone who seems to rely on that recovery program?

I also want to congratulate those who have stopped drinking by using the AVRT method while retaining compassion - you seem to have surpassed your "master".

CarolD

Hmmm....
Obviosuly some members have not read this..... I do find it sad when others are not finding joy in their lives. It's obvious to me by the way they posts.