View Poll Results: Now that you have quit, do you still consider yourself an alcoholic/addict?
YES - I still consider myself an alcoholic/addict.
121
82.88%
NO - I do not consider myself an alcoholic/addict.
25
17.12%
Voters: 146. You may not vote on this poll
RE: Addict Identity
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
Originally Posted by SoberJennie 
Posts like these just drone on and on... and make no sense. Why do people continue to ignore the #'s? It is documented that (and it cuts across recovery methods) the majority of those successful at getting sober once and for all do it with a long-term commitment to abstinence.
And this is a paradigm shift in thinking... that is why and how it works.
And this is a paradigm shift in thinking... that is why and how it works.
It's a fact that most people won't find recovery at all, so where do you get these ridiculous stats that say otherwise...what an incredibly irresponsible and immature post that anyone could read who is struggling with addicitions/alcoholism and think maybe i can do it by myself...
This isn't even your own experience? How can you be so flippant? I'm sorry but there must be some reason for these posts because it makes no sense what you are saying, maybe you are trying to convince yourself?
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Originally Posted by yeahgr8
But that is absolute rubbish...it's utter nonsense...wow!
It's a fact that most people won't find recovery at all, so where do you get these ridiculous stats that say otherwise...what an incredibly irresponsible and immature post that anyone could read who is struggling with addicitions/alcoholism and think maybe i can do it by myself...
This isn't even your own experience? How can you be so flippant? I'm sorry but there must be some reason for these posts because it makes no sense what you are saying, maybe you are trying to convince yourself?
It's a fact that most people won't find recovery at all, so where do you get these ridiculous stats that say otherwise...what an incredibly irresponsible and immature post that anyone could read who is struggling with addicitions/alcoholism and think maybe i can do it by myself...
This isn't even your own experience? How can you be so flippant? I'm sorry but there must be some reason for these posts because it makes no sense what you are saying, maybe you are trying to convince yourself?
People can do it by themselves if they want to and choose to... otherwise, of course they won't be able to do it by themselves. It's a personal choice.
Unless your are hooked up to an IV against your will, pumping alcohol into your veins... and you don't have wet brain or have lost most of your mental faculties... then there is still freedom of choice. How could there not be?
I'm so tired of this helpless stance... that you're somehow powerless to make steps to take back responsibility in your own life. It's pathetic and depressing and must be such a tiring disappointment to people who are new in their recovery.
Edit: You can take a look at some of the books in my photo albums if you'd like to know where I have gotten some of the stats. It's not an exhaustive list. Just all that I've taken photos of up to this point. I noticed in your profile you say you're currently reading nothing... why not?
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,443
It's not acceptable to be trading insults here.
That doesn't advance discussion.
I find things work out best here when we stick to our own experience.
We're here to provide peer support, not reenact WW2.
D
That doesn't advance discussion.
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Ignore bothersome members. If there is someone on the forum that bothers you, select the Ignore option on the drop down menu under their name on the post. You won't see any posts from this member again.
No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and recovery are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
Ignore bothersome members. If there is someone on the forum that bothers you, select the Ignore option on the drop down menu under their name on the post. You won't see any posts from this member again.
We're here to provide peer support, not reenact WW2.
D
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Albany NY
Posts: 1,212
Thank you, Dee, for the ignore reminder. Using mine now.
If you were to take one small pea and make it representative of one day of sobriety, and threaded them onto a string, I find that those who are program bashing would probably not be able to have a necklace that would reach the bottom of their chin; but they know it all.
Not helpful to others who are seeking sobriety. Quite boring, actually, and not a conducive debate.
If you were to take one small pea and make it representative of one day of sobriety, and threaded them onto a string, I find that those who are program bashing would probably not be able to have a necklace that would reach the bottom of their chin; but they know it all.
Not helpful to others who are seeking sobriety. Quite boring, actually, and not a conducive debate.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by SoberJennie
I'm so tired of this helpless stance... that you're somehow powerless to make steps to take back responsibility in your own life.
That concept of powerless is not based on any theory or mental construct. It's based on the experience of repeated failure to stay sober. The alcoholic delusion is that even though I had zero track record of any lasting sobriety, I still believed that I was in control and knew how to stay sober, despite all evidence to the contrary.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Here goes... Maybe I should have my coffee first...
I am really really tired of people assuming that because we may say ...."powerlessness over alcohol"... That we are somehow helpless, or that we don't take responsibility, or that we are not accountable....
I am tired of people making these kinds of assumptions about a program where...
THE EXACT OPPOSITE IS TRUE
ok ok ok.....
People just don't get it, this approach... But let me ask you something....
If you have so much power over alcohol.... Why can't you drink like normal people?
Waiting patiently for your answer.
I am really really tired of people assuming that because we may say ...."powerlessness over alcohol"... That we are somehow helpless, or that we don't take responsibility, or that we are not accountable....
I am tired of people making these kinds of assumptions about a program where...
THE EXACT OPPOSITE IS TRUE
ok ok ok.....
People just don't get it, this approach... But let me ask you something....
If you have so much power over alcohol.... Why can't you drink like normal people?
Waiting patiently for your answer.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
OK...
I just did a quick inventory.... My main character defect (everybody has them!!, not just AAs, LOL)... is pride. I'm told that pride is one of the most common.
So jennie's words affected my pride.... OK, making amends...
if Jennie ever wants or needs to learn about AA, we are always here, ready to help...
I just did a quick inventory.... My main character defect (everybody has them!!, not just AAs, LOL)... is pride. I'm told that pride is one of the most common.
So jennie's words affected my pride.... OK, making amends...
if Jennie ever wants or needs to learn about AA, we are always here, ready to help...
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by Mark75
If you have so much power over alcohol.... Why can't you drink like normal people?
Right now, today, I can look at the Newcomers forum and see many examples of people just like me that swore off for good, only to relapse again. Are they somehow weaker, less motivated, not as serious, worse cases, than those who insist that all it takes is making a decision to quit? That's the question I want an answer to. What's up with those people like me who couldn't seem to make that work for them?
According to 'the other side' of this thread, all those folks have to do is make up their minds to quit. So why are they back again (just like I was) after a relapse? I, too, am waiting patiently for an answer.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 478
I've said this before, and it seems to be appropriate to repeat. I was one of those a while back that thought powerless = weakness. I have now learned it is quite the opposite, for me. Powerless and Surrender is not giving up and giving in, it is not passive....it is me getting out of my own way and aligning with the flow of life. Are you helpless if you say you are powerless? Absolutely not. It takes a lot of strength and courage.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by yeahgr8
It's a fact that most people won't find recovery at all, so where do you get these ridiculous stats that say otherwise...what an incredibly irresponsible and immature post that anyone could read who is struggling with addicitions/alcoholism and think maybe i can do it by myself...
There are others, but since I don't have access to my books, this should do.
There is a high rate of recovery among alcoholics and addicts, treated and untreated. According to one estimate, heroin addicts break the habit in an average of 11 years. Another estimate is that at least 50% of alcoholics eventually free themselves although only 10% are ever treated. One recent study found that 80% of all alcoholics who recover for a year or more do so on their own, some after being unsuccessfully treated. When a group of these self-treated alcoholics was interviewed, 57% said they simply decided that alcohol was bad for them. Twenty-nine percent said health problems, frightening experiences, accidents, or blackouts persuaded them to quit. Others used such phrases as "Things were building up" or "I was sick and tired of it." Support from a husband or wife was important in sustaining the resolution.
--Treatment of Drug Abuse and Addiction — Part III, The Harvard Mental Health Letter, Volume 12, Number 4, October 1995, page 3.
The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism's 2001-2002 National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions interviewed over 43,000 people. Using the criteria for alcohol dependence found in the DSM-IV, they found that:
"About 75 percent of persons who recover from alcohol dependence do so without seeking any kind of help, including specialty alcohol (rehab) programs and AA. Only 13 percent of people with alcohol dependence ever receive specialty alcohol treatment."
That said, most people do have to try several times before they finally "get it", so I don't want anyone to get the idea that they will necessarily automatically "get it" the first time, or the second, or the third, or the fourth. However, there are ways to learn the techniques of the self-recovered instead of making the mistakes yourself, thereby saving yourself much of the misery.
This is precisely what I did, although, admittedly, I still went through much of the misery before doing so.
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Anyone who wants to read my past posts will see that I didn't "get it" immediately... and some might say I'm speaking to soon about getting it this last time... I started when I was 27 and now I'm 34... 7 years of trying. Finally, when I committed to abstinence (after much weighing of pros & cons, examining consequences, going to jail, watching my Mom kill herself slowly... and then finally kill herself)... I did get it, it did click, and it was rather easy and quick this last time... I simply realized that I don't want to ever drink again and I'm committed to never drinking again.
High on Life
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Been to Hell and Back
Posts: 1,157
Originally Posted by SoberJennie
People can do it by themselves if they want to and choose to... otherwise, of course they won't be able to do it by themselves. It's a personal choice.
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Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by yeahgr8
You obviously have a very different experience to most of us!
Most of us promised ourselves to stop drinking many, many times and failed to keep that promise...but we kept waking up and saying this time it will be different, i will succeed whilst making no changes whatsoever to our "plan of change"...it's called insanity...some of us only recognised we had done this once we got help and got sober, so the last thing that we would need to here is "this time you can do it" or "just stop drinking" and all that BS!
If you have woken up one morning and stopped drinking on willpower alone then all power to you but that "road to recovery" won't help most people...that's what is being implied here...
Most of us promised ourselves to stop drinking many, many times and failed to keep that promise...but we kept waking up and saying this time it will be different, i will succeed whilst making no changes whatsoever to our "plan of change"...it's called insanity...some of us only recognised we had done this once we got help and got sober, so the last thing that we would need to here is "this time you can do it" or "just stop drinking" and all that BS!
If you have woken up one morning and stopped drinking on willpower alone then all power to you but that "road to recovery" won't help most people...that's what is being implied here...
In the end, I had to realize that no one was going to do this for me, that there truly was no treatment for me, and that I had to do this on my own.
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Support forums are for support... Each of us here is doing the work for ourselves, I would say. More specifically... I'm not committed to any particular programs. I use a combination of ideas from programs, online meetings from two programs when I want to go, I'm starting to go to a F2F here in the town I live in, also about to try group therapy for substance abuse next month, I belong to this forum and others... But the majority of my time is spent reading and researching alone.
High on Life
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Been to Hell and Back
Posts: 1,157
Originally Posted by SoberJennie
Support forums are for support... Each of us here is doing the work for ourselves, I would say. More specifically... I'm not committed to any particular programs. I use a combination of ideas from programs, online meetings from two programs when I want to go, I'm starting to go to a F2F here in the town I live in, also about to try group therapy for substance abuse next month, I belong to this forum and others... But the majority of my time is spent reading and researching alone.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by wellwisher
If you were to take one small pea and make it representative of one day of sobriety, and threaded them onto a string, I find that those who are program bashing would probably not be able to have a necklace that would reach the bottom of their chin; but they know it all.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Well, Jenny...
Maybe AA and the steps are not the path you want to take right now, or ever... and that's fine. The best of luck to you, and I mean that sincerely.
I hope that as you, and all those who lurk, log off of SR at the end of the day you will have a better understanding of different recovery paths... With AA, powerless does not equal helpless... and that is true with any experience in life... we are powerless over nature... but we are not helpless... we can develop new technology to warn of tornados, we can make our buildings more resistant to earthquakes, we can dress for the weather... all that... but we can not stop tornados, earthquakes or even the rain, we do not have the power.... but all that preparedness takes work, dedication and a greater understanding of all that applies... and helpless certainly doesn't, apply.
I have had the benefit, no, privilege, of reading others who use different methods of recovery... and though I don't always understand them, or even always agree with them, I have learned that ultimately, I know very little... and that if something works, then there must be something to it... and that I have come respect, and listen to, anyone who does the tough work to recover from this devastating malady... alcoholism.
Maybe AA and the steps are not the path you want to take right now, or ever... and that's fine. The best of luck to you, and I mean that sincerely.
I hope that as you, and all those who lurk, log off of SR at the end of the day you will have a better understanding of different recovery paths... With AA, powerless does not equal helpless... and that is true with any experience in life... we are powerless over nature... but we are not helpless... we can develop new technology to warn of tornados, we can make our buildings more resistant to earthquakes, we can dress for the weather... all that... but we can not stop tornados, earthquakes or even the rain, we do not have the power.... but all that preparedness takes work, dedication and a greater understanding of all that applies... and helpless certainly doesn't, apply.
I have had the benefit, no, privilege, of reading others who use different methods of recovery... and though I don't always understand them, or even always agree with them, I have learned that ultimately, I know very little... and that if something works, then there must be something to it... and that I have come respect, and listen to, anyone who does the tough work to recover from this devastating malady... alcoholism.
polyaddicted cocanut
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Dixie
Posts: 781
All I know is, I have to constantly be doing something for my recovery, because my mind has such a twist to it, that if I don't go to meetings or work for my "staying sober", it won't take long for me to believe that using "one more time" is a damn good idea. That same "twist" is what makes me think meetings are pointless, and I don't need them. Just my 2c, I can't speak for anyone else, only myself
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
Originally Posted by AVRT
Hello,
I'm not new to recovery forums, and I have been reading SR for quite some time. Often, I read the stories/posts, and I think "yes, I am like these people, I used to do many of the same dumb things, and made the same excuses," but other times I don't relate. I've thought about this, and I think it comes down to the fact that unlike many people in recovery, I honestly do not consider myself "an alcoholic" or "an addict" anymore, since I am not presently dependent on alcohol or any other drugs.
I was at one point horribly addicted to alcohol; I couldn't even go one day without it, and going four days was a very rare occurrence. Still, to me, alcoholism implies a dependence on alcohol, and I can now function without it. That is not to say that I am not keenly aware of the fact that if I were to start up again, I could very easily become re-addicted. In fact, having gone through this experience before, I have a good idea of how it would probably play out.
I am curious about how others view themselves, though. For those of you who have quit drinking or using, do you consider yourself "an alcoholic" or "an addict?"
- AVRT
I'm not new to recovery forums, and I have been reading SR for quite some time. Often, I read the stories/posts, and I think "yes, I am like these people, I used to do many of the same dumb things, and made the same excuses," but other times I don't relate. I've thought about this, and I think it comes down to the fact that unlike many people in recovery, I honestly do not consider myself "an alcoholic" or "an addict" anymore, since I am not presently dependent on alcohol or any other drugs.
I was at one point horribly addicted to alcohol; I couldn't even go one day without it, and going four days was a very rare occurrence. Still, to me, alcoholism implies a dependence on alcohol, and I can now function without it. That is not to say that I am not keenly aware of the fact that if I were to start up again, I could very easily become re-addicted. In fact, having gone through this experience before, I have a good idea of how it would probably play out.
I am curious about how others view themselves, though. For those of you who have quit drinking or using, do you consider yourself "an alcoholic" or "an addict?"
- AVRT
What is this thread about anyway? We were asked how we view ourselves .... alcoholic or recovered/ing alcholic or not .... people answer and then are told they are wrong. WTH?
Now it's turned into some for of pointless debate where insults are being flung around everywhere.
What's the point of all of this?
I remember when I had to be right all the time.
Now, I only need to be right for me.
I don't give a hoot what others consider themselves.
What's right for you might not be right for me.
To thine own self be true.
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