Terminally Unique

I don't believe that alcoholism is a moral failing, or that it does not have a physiological component to it. A moral imperative, particularly if self-adopted, can certainly be highly effective against it, though, and has been throughout the ages. People have been quitting this way since long before any treatment or support groups existed.

Matt Talbot

MickeyAnMeisce

Look, it is truly not that hard to find information on the disease model of alcoholism, if you take the time to look.

For instance, in a previous post, I mentioned the "neurobiology of addiction". A Google search yields ~148000 results, and a Google Scholar search yields 3150 results searching anywhere in the article and 90 result searching just in the title.

BackToSquareOne

You guys can't ignore the numbers though, the majority of alcoholics quit on their own with no program, so what's the X factor that causes someone to finally throw in the towel?

MickeyAnMeisce

I'm confused: When did the discussion become about quitting on one's own vs quitting with someone else's help?

yeahgr8

Actually re my previous post i think you will find that the majority of alcoholics do not quit and end up dying of complications associated with alcoholism...3 that i personally knew died last month ages 23, 40 and 47...

Very, very optimistic to think the majority of alcoholics are getting sober out there only because they get sober by themselves and therefore no-one would know...

Soberpotamus

From what I've read (and I read a lot), the majority of those who get and stay sober do it using a combination of programs & methods... which is exactly why I chose this way for myself. So, in a sense... they are those who pick and choose (much to the chagrin of some [not all] AA'ers who like their blinders) and make a combo of things that actually work for them.

yeahgr8

Thanks SJ that backs up what i posted earlier:-)

BackToSquareOne

I basically took what I wanted and left the rest from a ton of different places. I was listening to one of the XA speaker talks out in the yard this afternoon and Sandy Beach said that AA was 10% stop drinking and 90% self improvement, ie. a more sane way to live.

BackToSquareOne

SoberJennie, you don't have to buy the whole cow to get a T-Bone steak, so why can't you take what you want and leave the rest. Bruce Lee was probably before your time but that was his motto, he took what he liked from all the martial arts and came up with what worked for him.

Terminally Unique

There neurobiology of addiction may explain how this develops, and how the body recovers from it, but as of yet, with the exception of detox, treatment does not resemble a medical solution in the least. You can read about the neurobiology of addiction until you go blind from eye strain, but until medicine actually beings to treat it as a medical condition, that won't help you much.

In fact, it might even dissuade you from trying. I actually have a book that contains many research articles on this topic. It makes the "Big Book" look like a greeting card, but there is nothing in there on how to quit.

Soberpotamus

I know Bruce Lee I've seen some of his moves...

Dude, you're talking to a creative person here... that's exactly what I do. I can not stand packaged and complete programs... it's not healthy to pick one and always stay there... I don't put all my eggs in one basket. I've done just what you suggest... I've been a part of several programs and I've taken what I like from each.... even AA!

...I am working on my patience to try to control my kneejerk reactions to what I perceive as narrow-mindedness. I'm known among my friends as a free thinker/free spirit. I'm agnostic and a libertarian (not to bring religion and politics into this, god forbid...)

I have to really watch my temper when I read certain things. But yes... I like the customized approach. It truly does work the best for me

SteppingItUp

For an alcoholic of my variety, moral and philosophical convictions galore have proven themselves to be insufficient; hence the existence of alcoholic/addict philosophers, psychiatrists and psychologists, priests, ministers and rabbis.

A passage from the most successful book on alcoholism in the world (the Big Book) springs to mind:

"If a mere code of morals or a better philosophy of life were sufficient to overcome alcoholism, many of us would have recovered long ago. But we found that such codes and philosophies did not save us, no matter how much we tried. We could wish to be moral, we could wish to be philosophically comforted, in fact, we could will these things with all our might, but the needed power wasn’t there. Our human resources, as marshalled by the will, were not sufficient; they failed utterly."

Then again, you may not be an alcoholic of my type.

Before deciding if you are an alcoholic or not, I'm curious to know what you're using to define what an alcoholic is and what you've used to base your ideas on.

In all cases, in every way, I wish you the very best on your journey.

Terminally Unique

"Heavy Drinker" would be an understatement in my case. I thought I was a "heavy drinker" alright, until I actually tried to quit, and the withdrawal kicked in. I then realized that I was physically, and not just psychologically dependent on it.

Terminally Unique

Mostly, the DSM-IV, but unofficially, I would say an alcoholic is someone who is dependent on alcohol. Although in my case, I was physiologically dependent, I am aware that someone can be dependent with or without being physiologically (physically) dependent. Since I am no longer dependent on alcohol, I do not consider myself an alcoholic. In similar vain, I don't consider myself a smoke-a-holic or a nicotine-a-holic, as I am no longer dependent on nicotine.

I have read the Big Book, BTW, several times, and I still have a have a copy of the pocket Big Book. I gave away the BIG Big Book. :-)

DSM-IV-TR Criteria for Alcohol Dependence

Alcohol Dependence - Diagnostic Code 303.90

A maladaptive pattern of alcohol use, leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as manifested by three (or more) of the following, occurring at any time in the same 12-month period:

(1) tolerance, as defined by either of the following:
(2) Withdrawal, as manifested by either of the following:
(3) alcohol is often used in larger amounts or over a longer period than was intended

(4) there is a persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control alcohol use

(5) a great deal of time is spent in activities necessary to obtain alcohol, use alcohol, or recover from its effects

(6) important social, occupational, or recreational activities are given up or reduced because of alcohol use

(7) alcohol use is continued despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been caused or exacerbated by alcohol (e.g. continued drinking despite recognition that an ulcer was made worse by alcohol consumption)

Specifiers:

With Physiological Dependence: evidence of tolerance or withdrawal (i.e., either Item 1 or 2 is present)

Without Physiological Dependence: no evidence of tolerance or withdrawal (i.e., neither Item 1 nor 2 is present)


DSM-IV-TR Criteria for Alcohol Withdrawal

Alcohol Withdrawal - Diagnostic Code 291.81

A. Cessation of (or reduction in) alcohol use that has been heavy and prolonged.

B. Two (or more) of the following, developing within several hours to a few days after Criterion A:
C. The symptoms in Criterion B cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

D. The symptoms are not due to a general medical condition and are not better accounted for by another mental disorder. Specify if: With Perceptual Disturbances

Terminally Unique

Just out of curiosity, since I have no experience with it, how does SLAA define sobriety?

I don't get your "inner circle" reference, for example.

MickeyAnMeisce

There is no cure for diabetes.

Are you seriously arguing that diabetes isn't a disease?

Terminally Unique

I made no mention of diabetes, but medicine does treat diabetes as a medical condition, and the treatment for it reflects that. The only thing that might approach anything resembling medical treatment for alcoholism is the Sinclair Method. As for a cure, there most certainly is a cure for alcoholism: abstinence.

Latte

I'm an addict in recovery.

DH and I joke that recovered is for a couch. LOL

I don't label others for any reason, that is not my place.

Soberpotamus

There are documented cases of diabetes being cured with nutrition alone.

Terminally Unique

OK, I know AH, XAH, ABF, XABF, etc, etc, but what does DH stand for? :-)

I'm assuming replace "D" for "A" in all the usual acronyms, and you get the equivalent NA terms?