Relapse and Failure??
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Maryland
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Relapse and Failure??
First off I would like to thank everyone here, I have learn a lot about self and my life is much better since I have been reading and posting on these boards. I am a little over 5 months sober and doing very well so far. Anyway.
There have been a few threads lately talking about relapse and failure, from posters, sponsors, and other in Rehab. It seems to me, and I don't claim to know much. that too much emphasis is being pit on failure and counting days and the shame associated with going back to "day one".
If someone has decided not to drink and has made it two years, like a poster I saw here, and has relapse but gets back on the the "wagon", was it really a failure?
the way I look at it is that person had 730 days of sobriety and one day or weekend of drinking , That is a huge Victory in my book not a failure. Sure it would have been great not to have relapsed but I would take that ratio any day.
Just my two cents.. Not an excuse to relapse just hopping people do not get to down on themselves for little slips, that to me could cause major slips which is the big problem we are all trying to avoid,
Once again thanks to all for you honesty and postings, there have been many times that I have logged on here with the temptation to drink in my mind and after reading a few threads I realize what I have achieved and why it is so important to continue!!
Cheers,
There have been a few threads lately talking about relapse and failure, from posters, sponsors, and other in Rehab. It seems to me, and I don't claim to know much. that too much emphasis is being pit on failure and counting days and the shame associated with going back to "day one".
If someone has decided not to drink and has made it two years, like a poster I saw here, and has relapse but gets back on the the "wagon", was it really a failure?
the way I look at it is that person had 730 days of sobriety and one day or weekend of drinking , That is a huge Victory in my book not a failure. Sure it would have been great not to have relapsed but I would take that ratio any day.
Just my two cents.. Not an excuse to relapse just hopping people do not get to down on themselves for little slips, that to me could cause major slips which is the big problem we are all trying to avoid,
Once again thanks to all for you honesty and postings, there have been many times that I have logged on here with the temptation to drink in my mind and after reading a few threads I realize what I have achieved and why it is so important to continue!!
Cheers,
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Whistler, British Columbia
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I also have following the recent threads on this very topic.
To some counting the days might be a very important part of keeping in recovery and the fear of going back to day 1 might be one of many driving forces in that persons continued sobriety.
For my own recovery if I was to give in and drink / drug even for one day after a year of sobriety and convince myself that it was only a slip and that I can continue on as if it did not happen would be giving in to that voice in my head.
Once that happens it would be a quick slippery slide right back into my old behaviors
I would have to take ownership of the relapse and dig deep down on why it happened and how I could make sure it never happened again. This would include accepting that I was back to day 1 and not trying to trick myself otherwise.
The great thing about knowing this is what keeps me sober. I know that drinking / drugging will destroy me. It has taken some time but I no longer have that trickster talking to me trying to convince me that one drink will be alright.
The very thought of drinking or drugging gives me the shivers
To some counting the days might be a very important part of keeping in recovery and the fear of going back to day 1 might be one of many driving forces in that persons continued sobriety.
For my own recovery if I was to give in and drink / drug even for one day after a year of sobriety and convince myself that it was only a slip and that I can continue on as if it did not happen would be giving in to that voice in my head.
Once that happens it would be a quick slippery slide right back into my old behaviors
I would have to take ownership of the relapse and dig deep down on why it happened and how I could make sure it never happened again. This would include accepting that I was back to day 1 and not trying to trick myself otherwise.
The great thing about knowing this is what keeps me sober. I know that drinking / drugging will destroy me. It has taken some time but I no longer have that trickster talking to me trying to convince me that one drink will be alright.
The very thought of drinking or drugging gives me the shivers
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,902
I heard a great quote at a meeting: someone asked, "Who has the most sobriety in the room??" -- The answer is: "Whoever got up earliest this morning."
That sums up my attitude. I don't count days, if someone asked me how long I've been sober I would have to get a calendar to figure it out.
When I first got sober I counted days, weeks, months, and years. The only thing that did for me was make me complacent. I relapsed after 5.5 years because it had been so long I thought I could drink normally.
That sums up my attitude. I don't count days, if someone asked me how long I've been sober I would have to get a calendar to figure it out.
When I first got sober I counted days, weeks, months, and years. The only thing that did for me was make me complacent. I relapsed after 5.5 years because it had been so long I thought I could drink normally.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
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Lying to myself and others is a big part of my past drinking history.
I refuse to allow it to be part of my reccovery.
So when I did return to drinking...after I decided to stop..I was compelled to re start my sobreity date...
The date of my current stretch of sobreity is just as important to me as my natal day...perhaps more because I found my soulution.
I refuse to allow it to be part of my reccovery.
So when I did return to drinking...after I decided to stop..I was compelled to re start my sobreity date...
The date of my current stretch of sobreity is just as important to me as my natal day...perhaps more because I found my soulution.
Last edited by CarolD; 06-09-2011 at 09:53 AM.
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I know what you mean and I agree that every day of sobriety counts. It's not just about the numbers. And we need to encourage everyone who relapses because it's so easy to feel like a total failure and have thoughts of "I'll never get sober." We should never forget the feelings we had on day 1 - the self-loathing, shame, and hopelessness.
Relapse is a serious matter - it can start the obsession all over again and make it harder to get back to sobriety. Tragic things can happen. It can't be dismissed as though nothing happened. It's a time to question our plan of recovery. But I agree that unless someone is in denial the last thing they need is a lecture. Experience is fine and even suggestions, but we need to temper our responses with compassion and encouragement.
Good post!
Relapse is a serious matter - it can start the obsession all over again and make it harder to get back to sobriety. Tragic things can happen. It can't be dismissed as though nothing happened. It's a time to question our plan of recovery. But I agree that unless someone is in denial the last thing they need is a lecture. Experience is fine and even suggestions, but we need to temper our responses with compassion and encouragement.
Good post!
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Location: UK
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It's only a failure if the intention was to never drink again...if the intention was to go dry as long as possible, suppose you could compare it to holding your breath, then it isn't a failure there will just be varying results depending on the individual...
The mental torture i put myself through over the years by going through dry spells when i knew perfectly well that i would drink again drove me crazy in the end...i remember a moment standing by the lighthouse in Gibraltar at 30 years old, i doubt anything i would say would have made me stop drinking but i would say ffs mate make a decision and stick to it, either drink without worrying about it or get into some program of recovery...stop running the hamster wheel of abstinence!
The mental torture i put myself through over the years by going through dry spells when i knew perfectly well that i would drink again drove me crazy in the end...i remember a moment standing by the lighthouse in Gibraltar at 30 years old, i doubt anything i would say would have made me stop drinking but i would say ffs mate make a decision and stick to it, either drink without worrying about it or get into some program of recovery...stop running the hamster wheel of abstinence!
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
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Its good to have a healthy amount of remorse for having a relapse after some time sober. I think It all gets wonky when the relapse becomes the main and only focus in ones recovery.
I'm reminded of "catastrophizing" or magnification thinking when I read of those that relapse and focus only on the emotional distress of the relapse. Spending time beating oneself over the head about a relapse tales away time better spent learning from a relapse, evaluating their recovery method and taking preventive measures to prevent possible future mishaps.
"The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing." ~John Powell
I'm reminded of "catastrophizing" or magnification thinking when I read of those that relapse and focus only on the emotional distress of the relapse. Spending time beating oneself over the head about a relapse tales away time better spent learning from a relapse, evaluating their recovery method and taking preventive measures to prevent possible future mishaps.
"The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing." ~John Powell
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thanks for all of the insight.
I am not trying to make light of a relapse and echo and amplify the importance of learning from past experiences, I guess that is part of what I was trying to say in a round about way with more focus on the accomplishments than the mistakes.
Part of my thought process was remembering what Charlie Sheen said about AA and its success rate of 5% or something. He based it his stance, that most of the people that go into AA drink again in some way shape of form, he may be right. That is what made me question what really is a success? As it relates to getting sober or being in recovery, I am not sure I can define it nor do I think I will anytime soon.
Then I think about my own experiences, I had a toast of Champagne for my Father-in-Law birthday, he turned 70. I didn't think much of it, didn't finish the glass after the toast. My wife asked me the next day was I upset that I drank, and I wasn't until she mentioned it, and after thinking about it I wasn't upset and a little proud that I hadn't thought about it before she mentioned it.
YeahGr8- You really got me thinking about the abstinence vs recovery point. I need to noodle on that a little longer, great distinction.
I am not trying to make light of a relapse and echo and amplify the importance of learning from past experiences, I guess that is part of what I was trying to say in a round about way with more focus on the accomplishments than the mistakes.
Part of my thought process was remembering what Charlie Sheen said about AA and its success rate of 5% or something. He based it his stance, that most of the people that go into AA drink again in some way shape of form, he may be right. That is what made me question what really is a success? As it relates to getting sober or being in recovery, I am not sure I can define it nor do I think I will anytime soon.
Then I think about my own experiences, I had a toast of Champagne for my Father-in-Law birthday, he turned 70. I didn't think much of it, didn't finish the glass after the toast. My wife asked me the next day was I upset that I drank, and I wasn't until she mentioned it, and after thinking about it I wasn't upset and a little proud that I hadn't thought about it before she mentioned it.
YeahGr8- You really got me thinking about the abstinence vs recovery point. I need to noodle on that a little longer, great distinction.
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Like Carol, I think it's about honesty, which I think is crucial to recovery.
So, it's not about counting days and failure, rather looking honestly at yourself and figuring out what happened and moving forward.
So, it's not about counting days and failure, rather looking honestly at yourself and figuring out what happened and moving forward.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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Sometimes when people relapse they consider themselves failures. But this is NOT TRUE, especially when they put the alcohol down a second time. Maybe they needed to drink more to "get it" that they can't deal with alcohol. It's no accident that alcoholism is categorized as a mental illness ... it's a disease that includes completely distorted thinking. We also tend to very harshly criticize ourselves, nobody is harder on us than we are. The biggest gift of sobriety is when I'm sometimes able to cut myself some slack.
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Originally Posted by NYCDoglvr 
... it's a disease that includes completely distorted thinking. We also tend to very harshly criticize ourselves, nobody is harder on us than we are. The biggest gift of sobriety is when I'm sometimes able to cut myself some slack.
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They are not a failure if they go out and then come back and work on their sobriety. The problem is that those who stay sober for 2 years, go back out for 1 week, and then come back are the exception not the rule. In that sense, I personally believe that it is a failure to drink at all because you are stacking the odds against you.
By knowing it is a failure to drink at all is another defense you can have against that first drink. You can hold on to the one story a month you hear of someone relapsing, coming back, and they are alright, but in my experience it's better to see the whole picture of how most relapsers end up ruining their life, in jail, or dead.
By knowing it is a failure to drink at all is another defense you can have against that first drink. You can hold on to the one story a month you hear of someone relapsing, coming back, and they are alright, but in my experience it's better to see the whole picture of how most relapsers end up ruining their life, in jail, or dead.
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I totally agree with this, when I relapsed I was treated and felt like a failure, and therefore my relapse into abyss continued for several days. It didn't matter how much time I had, all that mattered was that I had picked up and everything was now erased.
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i think alot of the s#it we catch for those who relapse is a direct result of the fear and danger it causes those we love. when i use to go to AA, i went to a men's group that treated low bottom cases. they would do everything short of dragging you out to the parking lot and beat the crap out of the person that relapsed. i never agreed with this method of tough love. i also don't ever like to throw the word "FAILURE" to anything.
it took Thomas Edison over 500 tries to invent a working lightbulb and when asked by a local news paper reporter how he felt to fail 500 times, he said" i never failed...not once..."it was just a 501 step proccess."
i think the only way you fail is when you give up trying.
this is a severe, deadly disease that i wouldn't wish on anyone...and sadly, Charlie Sheen's stats about AA aren't far off...but there's more than 1 way to stay sober.
i would encourage anyone who falls off, to simply dust themselves off, learn from their mistakes and move on with purpose.
it took Thomas Edison over 500 tries to invent a working lightbulb and when asked by a local news paper reporter how he felt to fail 500 times, he said" i never failed...not once..."it was just a 501 step proccess."
i think the only way you fail is when you give up trying.
this is a severe, deadly disease that i wouldn't wish on anyone...and sadly, Charlie Sheen's stats about AA aren't far off...but there's more than 1 way to stay sober.
i would encourage anyone who falls off, to simply dust themselves off, learn from their mistakes and move on with purpose.
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If a person is alcoholic, he or she can't help but drink. That is what alcoholics do. Why are we surprised when an untreated alcoholic relapses back to drinking? Abstinence is not treatment. Meetings are not treatment. A spiritual awakening as a result of the twelve steps of Alcoholics Anonymous relieves the obsession and the desire to drink. Susan
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Originally Posted by bmwcycle
was it really a failure?
That failure, in and of itself, doesn't have to be associated with any particular value judgment. It can be a bad thing if that failure leads to a 10 year binge. It can be a great thing if that failure leads to an increased commitment and willingness to pursue recovery.
Sticking my head in the sand and pretending it's OK to pick up a drink after I've committed to complete abstinence is just a lie. Not acknowledging the failure almost assures that I'm doomed to repeat it. Instead, if I can acknowledge it and admit that what I'm doing is obviously having only limited success, then that failure can be a great event.
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Originally Posted by susanlauren
If a person is alcoholic, he or she can't help but drink. That is what alcoholics do. Why are we surprised when an untreated alcoholic relapses back to drinking? Abstinence is not treatment. Meetings are not treatment. A spiritual awakening as a result of the twelve steps of Alcoholics Anonymous relieves the obsession and the desire to drink. Susan
Keithj above gave the best response to the original question, I think. It depends on what you intend to do once you drink again. Are you going to do it some more, or are you going to try and figure out what you did wrong.
As for the twelve steps, what do you do if you've already tried that and the desire to drink has not been relieved? Give in?
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AVRT: Abstinence is not treatment in the sense that you'll never want to drink again, but it certainly does put an end to any further problems caused by drinking.
If all there were to alcoholism is a physical aspect, then abstinence alone is a complete solution. It solves further health problems, future legal and financial difficulties, ongoing marital issues, and the list goes on. My experience has been that alcoholism is not just physical in nature. It is a malady of the mind and of the spirit too. I tried abstinence alone. It didn't work out very well for me. I lived in the hell of untreated alcoholism.
AVRT: As for the twelve steps, what do you do if you've already tried that and the desire to drink has not been relieved?
There are plenty of people who say they have tried AA and/or that they have worked the steps and that it just doesn't work for them. When one digs deeper, one discovers they were less than thorough and forthcoming in their 4th step inventory or they failed to make all of their amends or they did not continue the daily disciplines and practices of the 10th and 11th steps or they failed to work with other alcoholics.
Have you ever tried to assemble a bicycle or other toy for your kids on Christmas Day? Well typically the directions sit in the box while dad (or mom) struggles to figure out how the damn thing goes together. When all else fails and one is at the end of frustration, what happens? There is a frantic search for the directions. Guess what happens when the directions are followed? What couldn't be done all of a sudden becomes doable.
I would question what it means to have "tried that"? Mental assent or agreement with the steps will not result in the type of life-changing experience necessary to overcome alcoholism. I thought I had "tried that" too and that it didn't work. What I learned is that I had never worked the steps according to the directions in the Big Book. When I followed the directions what I thought didn't work ended up working perfectly.
By the way, AA has no monopoly on recovery. If AA is not to an individual's liking, there are plenty of other recovery programs to choose from. So try SMART, LifeRing, Women for Sobriety, Rational Recovery, an addictions counselor, or some other method.
Susan
If all there were to alcoholism is a physical aspect, then abstinence alone is a complete solution. It solves further health problems, future legal and financial difficulties, ongoing marital issues, and the list goes on. My experience has been that alcoholism is not just physical in nature. It is a malady of the mind and of the spirit too. I tried abstinence alone. It didn't work out very well for me. I lived in the hell of untreated alcoholism.
AVRT: As for the twelve steps, what do you do if you've already tried that and the desire to drink has not been relieved?
There are plenty of people who say they have tried AA and/or that they have worked the steps and that it just doesn't work for them. When one digs deeper, one discovers they were less than thorough and forthcoming in their 4th step inventory or they failed to make all of their amends or they did not continue the daily disciplines and practices of the 10th and 11th steps or they failed to work with other alcoholics.
Have you ever tried to assemble a bicycle or other toy for your kids on Christmas Day? Well typically the directions sit in the box while dad (or mom) struggles to figure out how the damn thing goes together. When all else fails and one is at the end of frustration, what happens? There is a frantic search for the directions. Guess what happens when the directions are followed? What couldn't be done all of a sudden becomes doable.
I would question what it means to have "tried that"? Mental assent or agreement with the steps will not result in the type of life-changing experience necessary to overcome alcoholism. I thought I had "tried that" too and that it didn't work. What I learned is that I had never worked the steps according to the directions in the Big Book. When I followed the directions what I thought didn't work ended up working perfectly.
By the way, AA has no monopoly on recovery. If AA is not to an individual's liking, there are plenty of other recovery programs to choose from. So try SMART, LifeRing, Women for Sobriety, Rational Recovery, an addictions counselor, or some other method.
Susan
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Originally Posted by susanlauren
There are plenty of people who say they have tried AA and/or that they have worked the steps and that it just doesn't work for them. When one digs deeper, one discovers they were less than thorough and forthcoming in their 4th step inventory or they failed to make all of their amends or they did not continue the daily disciplines and practices of the 10th and 11th steps or they failed to work with other alcoholics.
Then when I did Step 4 again, it was go back to Step 1. Then when that didn't work, it was get a new sponsor, etc.
It was ALWAYS my fault.
Like telling people here is my program:
STEP 1: NEVER DRINK
Then when people drink again, I can say "well, you didn't follow directions."
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