To What End
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It's a common problem, your Buddhist friends have a certain insight into it, I'm not a Buddhist, but I really relate to the four noble truths and the eightfold path makes sense to me. Maybe I'm a Buddhist except in name... Anyway.
Your goal should be to be comfortable with yourself and with what you have. It's the brief period of elation that you're chasing and as you've seen it doesn't last and it's that which causes you the pain and drives you onward seek out new peaks.
Your goal should be to be comfortable with yourself (Yes I repeated it ). By setting yourself these goals you're not just chasing the next high, you're trying to control life, to bludgeon life's uncertainties. You need to find a way to accept life's uncertainties and that almost certainly comes with being comfortable in yourself.
That's the theory, the practical requires some effort but here are some tips I've found useful. Please bare in mind I struggled and still struggle with some of this stuff, I relate totally to what you're feeling.
So, practical. There's some reading you can do if you do books. "How to get what you want and want what you get" is a gentle introduction.
Meditation. Really helps actually. There's a reason it features in most spiritual paths, whether that's as meditation or dressed up as prayer.
People. People are basically the source of all pain and the source of all joy, they are the problem and the solution. They will help take you out of your self and allow you to discover yourself.
You discover yourself not by looking inwards, but by seeing your reflection in others.
Your goal should be to be comfortable with yourself and with what you have. It's the brief period of elation that you're chasing and as you've seen it doesn't last and it's that which causes you the pain and drives you onward seek out new peaks.
Your goal should be to be comfortable with yourself (Yes I repeated it ). By setting yourself these goals you're not just chasing the next high, you're trying to control life, to bludgeon life's uncertainties. You need to find a way to accept life's uncertainties and that almost certainly comes with being comfortable in yourself.
That's the theory, the practical requires some effort but here are some tips I've found useful. Please bare in mind I struggled and still struggle with some of this stuff, I relate totally to what you're feeling.
So, practical. There's some reading you can do if you do books. "How to get what you want and want what you get" is a gentle introduction.
Meditation. Really helps actually. There's a reason it features in most spiritual paths, whether that's as meditation or dressed up as prayer.
People. People are basically the source of all pain and the source of all joy, they are the problem and the solution. They will help take you out of your self and allow you to discover yourself.
You discover yourself not by looking inwards, but by seeing your reflection in others.
There's kind of a quandry about setting and achieving goals. As NobelCause phrased it in the original post "Nearly everything thing that I embark on in life requires a conquerable entity which I can engage in my crosshairs". So we put all our energy and focus into achieving a goal and when we do we are often left with a case of the "and then whats", what's next?
All to often we find that the thrill of life was in the journey and once we reach the destination (achieve the goal), we are no happier than before we started. Kind of like we run out of "and then whats" that we find worth pursuing.
I was listening to a talk on Buddhism that I found very thought provoking. There was an elderly monk on his death bed and all the younger monks gathered around him to learn his secret of "enlightment" before he died. His last words were "What's hot is hot, what's cold is cold", "what is,is". My initial reaction was that this is a bunch of gibberish but if you really think about it there is a deeper meaning. I'm getting off topic so I'll leave it there.
All to often we find that the thrill of life was in the journey and once we reach the destination (achieve the goal), we are no happier than before we started. Kind of like we run out of "and then whats" that we find worth pursuing.
I was listening to a talk on Buddhism that I found very thought provoking. There was an elderly monk on his death bed and all the younger monks gathered around him to learn his secret of "enlightment" before he died. His last words were "What's hot is hot, what's cold is cold", "what is,is". My initial reaction was that this is a bunch of gibberish but if you really think about it there is a deeper meaning. I'm getting off topic so I'll leave it there.
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A little foggy on writing last night's post. A fifth a night should be far too much for this lady to soak up and keep standing (I weigh about a buck twenty), yet that's the neighborhood I end up in in no time when I get on the 'just one cocktail' train. Bet that sounds familiar.
That said, today is not the day to quit pickling myself, as the cravings came early (or perhaps I just slept later) and it has already begun again. Tomorrow or next week.
@Tabula: Re: "Your goal should be to be comfortable with yourself." I agree. The ever elusive contentment. I'm a lapsed Buddhist, has been years since I've "taken refuge", but it remains the only spiritual philosophy and tradition that I can genuinely identify with. Meditation kept me afloat during some very trying periods of my life, and it's likely no coincidence that the peaks and valleys of my sobriety and drinking seem to directly correlate to the level to which I am connected to that practice. Need to find my way back there.
Without going in to too much detail, last week contained the still fresh anniversary of a death of the worst sort (a subjective gauge, of course). Maybe I am scapegoating or using this as a red herring, maybe I am festering my own wounds by refusing acceptance, and maybe I am dishonoring a soul's memory, but it's an alienating, singular grief and I can't do this time of year sober yet. In the words of T.S. Eliot, “April is the cruelest month, breeding Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing Memory and desire, stirring Dull roots with spring rain.” (Apologies for the self indulgence of quoting The Wasteland.)
On that happy note, I sincerely thank you all for the insights and concern. They are appreciated.
That said, today is not the day to quit pickling myself, as the cravings came early (or perhaps I just slept later) and it has already begun again. Tomorrow or next week.
@Tabula: Re: "Your goal should be to be comfortable with yourself." I agree. The ever elusive contentment. I'm a lapsed Buddhist, has been years since I've "taken refuge", but it remains the only spiritual philosophy and tradition that I can genuinely identify with. Meditation kept me afloat during some very trying periods of my life, and it's likely no coincidence that the peaks and valleys of my sobriety and drinking seem to directly correlate to the level to which I am connected to that practice. Need to find my way back there.
Without going in to too much detail, last week contained the still fresh anniversary of a death of the worst sort (a subjective gauge, of course). Maybe I am scapegoating or using this as a red herring, maybe I am festering my own wounds by refusing acceptance, and maybe I am dishonoring a soul's memory, but it's an alienating, singular grief and I can't do this time of year sober yet. In the words of T.S. Eliot, “April is the cruelest month, breeding Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing Memory and desire, stirring Dull roots with spring rain.” (Apologies for the self indulgence of quoting The Wasteland.)
On that happy note, I sincerely thank you all for the insights and concern. They are appreciated.
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Hi NobleCause,
I was just reading this thread - i don't know why because I don't really class myself as an alcoholic (although I may be!)
I too am a lapsed Buddhist and I too am trying to recover from a death "of the worst sort" of my ex, who was an addict, and I too have a smattering of PTSD!
i drink - but not in a normal way, not even (I think) in a normal alcoholic way because I'm okay to be sober for days. I don't think about it. But I get this overwhelming loneliness and despair when I think about him.
I can't share my pain. I don't want to share my pain. I have trouble trusting people too. But I want to ease my pain, and I want to remember because I loved him. So I drink and drink and drink, and I smoke and smoke and smoke. This will go on for days, then reach a peak where I can't stand it any more, and then I'll be sober for days.
I've been like this since he died. I saw a counsellor too, it did help for a while, but still.... this loneliness, this inability to share because I don't feel anyone would understand. And I don't want to talk about it and not be understood.
I don't know why I'm telling you except that i could relate to your story a lot, and I've been lurking around this site wondering why I'm here or where I fit in - friends and family? alcoholic?
I don't know what I am! I recently saw this medical Qi Gong man and he told me to just let myself feel and not be so scared. He says it won't kill you, it will free you.
Hmmm.
Hey, I just wanted to say I relate to your story and you're not alone. I think PTSD takes time to recover from. So does grief.
Thanks for posting your story. I feel less alone after reading it xxxx
I was just reading this thread - i don't know why because I don't really class myself as an alcoholic (although I may be!)
I too am a lapsed Buddhist and I too am trying to recover from a death "of the worst sort" of my ex, who was an addict, and I too have a smattering of PTSD!
i drink - but not in a normal way, not even (I think) in a normal alcoholic way because I'm okay to be sober for days. I don't think about it. But I get this overwhelming loneliness and despair when I think about him.
I can't share my pain. I don't want to share my pain. I have trouble trusting people too. But I want to ease my pain, and I want to remember because I loved him. So I drink and drink and drink, and I smoke and smoke and smoke. This will go on for days, then reach a peak where I can't stand it any more, and then I'll be sober for days.
I've been like this since he died. I saw a counsellor too, it did help for a while, but still.... this loneliness, this inability to share because I don't feel anyone would understand. And I don't want to talk about it and not be understood.
I don't know why I'm telling you except that i could relate to your story a lot, and I've been lurking around this site wondering why I'm here or where I fit in - friends and family? alcoholic?
I don't know what I am! I recently saw this medical Qi Gong man and he told me to just let myself feel and not be so scared. He says it won't kill you, it will free you.
Hmmm.
Hey, I just wanted to say I relate to your story and you're not alone. I think PTSD takes time to recover from. So does grief.
Thanks for posting your story. I feel less alone after reading it xxxx
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I get that. I get that completely. Sort of like a hollow that can't be filled no matter what. Mine was not an ex, was my kid, and not drug related, but the feelings I have are quite similar. Very sorry for your pain, and I wish you peace, tho I've no advice at all on how to find that. Thanks for your post.
I've been rereading this thread and what I see in NobleCause and milo88 are two very smart people. NobleCause, a 120 lb. woman drinking a fifth a night and remaining functional to any degree is kind of hard to fathom. Because I've been there myself I won't ask the obvious question which is, why are you doing this to yourself?
I won't tell you that what your doing is slow suicide because I think you already know that.
I won't tell you that if you are drinking that much that you are setting yourself up for a bad period of alcohol withdrawal, because you already know that.
It's obvious from your writing that your a very intelligent person. I wish I had some magical words of wisdom to give you and having been there myself I should be able to offer you something but I'm drawing a blank as to what to type next.
Hang in there Noble Cause and get off the train to nowhere (alcohol) before it crashes.
I won't tell you that what your doing is slow suicide because I think you already know that.
I won't tell you that if you are drinking that much that you are setting yourself up for a bad period of alcohol withdrawal, because you already know that.
It's obvious from your writing that your a very intelligent person. I wish I had some magical words of wisdom to give you and having been there myself I should be able to offer you something but I'm drawing a blank as to what to type next.
Hang in there Noble Cause and get off the train to nowhere (alcohol) before it crashes.
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The entire fifth is never my intent - it's just that the one leads to two, the two to three, the three to four, etc and then I'm on fire and an empty bottle seems the only natural conclusion. It's an insatiable hunger. From the outside perspective it may appear to be suicide, but I'm just trying to keep up with the inner demands. The party left long ago.
Just killed today's bottle. Earlier than I'd thought. Nothing left, I dumped the reserves in a fit of inspiration (Thanks, SR & BackToSquareOne) a couple hours ago. Acquired some Valium to help me thru later tonite and tomorrow. Feeling pretty rough, but going to attempt to eat the first full meal I've had in days and then sleep.
Just killed today's bottle. Earlier than I'd thought. Nothing left, I dumped the reserves in a fit of inspiration (Thanks, SR & BackToSquareOne) a couple hours ago. Acquired some Valium to help me thru later tonite and tomorrow. Feeling pretty rough, but going to attempt to eat the first full meal I've had in days and then sleep.
I hope you're doing OK Noble......
It IS an insatiable hunger...... no matter how much we feed it, it only gets hungrier and hungrier. I just hope you don't have to go through much more pain in order to find the motivation to quit for good.
From what I've read about detox, it can get progressively worse, too. Please take care of yourself and call the ER if you need too.........
It IS an insatiable hunger...... no matter how much we feed it, it only gets hungrier and hungrier. I just hope you don't have to go through much more pain in order to find the motivation to quit for good.
From what I've read about detox, it can get progressively worse, too. Please take care of yourself and call the ER if you need too.........
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Little sheepish for the past days' posts - I was drunk, I was sad, and, for the past couple weeks, I've been pretty stupid. What started with a couple drinks 10 days ago wound up a protracted nosedive into oblivion of which I remember just bits and pieces. I never mean for it to veer in that direction but it invariably does and then once I'm on a roll, I'm on a roll. The amazing feedback I received here is what made me take notice of what was playing out, as I truly can't see it while I'm in it, and now, again, I'm going to do my best to try and right the course. Feel like I've been taking a whole lot more than I've been giving on this site lately, so apologies for that, I will make an effort to correct that as soon as my head's a little straighter.
Day one sans booze, and it's absolutely the case that detox gets worse each time. Nothing's feeling truly dangerous, and I'm keeping myself carefully medicated, but man is this rough.
Happy to be alive, happy to be here. Thanks to all.
Day one sans booze, and it's absolutely the case that detox gets worse each time. Nothing's feeling truly dangerous, and I'm keeping myself carefully medicated, but man is this rough.
Happy to be alive, happy to be here. Thanks to all.
Glad you got off the alcohol train before it crashed NobelCause. Do a google search of "kindling in alcohol withdrawal", there's quite a bit written about it. I will tell you from experience that each time you go through the binge - quit for a while cycle the withdrawals get worse.
Toward the end of my drinking days I was eating valium like skittles and buying vodka by the case, it didn't end well. Anyhow, glad your back in the land of the living. Just remember that your not alone in the struggle.
Toward the end of my drinking days I was eating valium like skittles and buying vodka by the case, it didn't end well. Anyhow, glad your back in the land of the living. Just remember that your not alone in the struggle.
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Still in the game, Day 2 now and feeling far worse, but going to see the day thru without a drink if it kills me (not literally). Kept myself holed up in my office today, anxious, shaky and sick as a dog, door closed, lights dimmed and no calls or visits allowed to pass my assistants (I'm sure they've figured out the score). Did the bare minimum, got sick a few times, had some panic attacks, and waited til the rest of the floor had cleared out for the night so as to slip out without having to look anyone in the eye. And of course, amidst that wretchedness, the thought of a drink rose repeatedly in hums of craving, the itch begging scratching above all else. Such an absurd way to live. And such a completely preventable and predictable suffering. Wishing I wasn't so complicit in allowing it to thrive.
Thought a lot about the concept of surrender today.
Thought a lot about the concept of surrender today.
You know, part of the concept of surrender is understanding and accepting the fact that alcohol only makes things worse.
The physical withdrawal will usually go away in 3 or 4 days, you'll start to feel better but notice that a subliminal anxiety, an uneasiness of sorts that has no obvious cause can stick around for a much longer time. It's all too easy for the rational mind to go into problem/solution mode. We know that a few drinks will clear this right up but ignore the fact that the solution will, in the long run, only make the problem worse. It's almost as if we choose the instant gratification over the long term misery that our solution imparts.
Just my late night rambling NobleCause, take it for what its worth.
The physical withdrawal will usually go away in 3 or 4 days, you'll start to feel better but notice that a subliminal anxiety, an uneasiness of sorts that has no obvious cause can stick around for a much longer time. It's all too easy for the rational mind to go into problem/solution mode. We know that a few drinks will clear this right up but ignore the fact that the solution will, in the long run, only make the problem worse. It's almost as if we choose the instant gratification over the long term misery that our solution imparts.
Just my late night rambling NobleCause, take it for what its worth.
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Thanks for all of your input, it's been illuminating.
For me, surrendering is when I finally say "there has to be a better way," and being open to receive it. "Willingness" is another way to put it. That's my take on it anyway.....
Hope you're starting to feel a bit better on day 3....... stay strong and let us know how you're doing!:ghug3
Hope you're starting to feel a bit better on day 3....... stay strong and let us know how you're doing!:ghug3
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NobleCause-
I really found a connection to your posts. The way you describe your personality is a spot on match to mine. I showed my wife and she thought I wrote it. I held a high stress, well-paying trading head position at a very large firm at an abnormally young age. The drinking part of that business was initially a pre-requisite to doing business. Eventually that spilled into my home life and as you stated, gained momentum. I can remember the days of closing the office door all day, dimming the lights, taking zero calls and speaking minimally in meetings. Hell I slept under the trading desk one night after getting plastered at a Yankees Playoff game.
Eventually I lost that job due to a "failure to properly supervise". We were making money hand over fist, but it was a cover your own ass move by the CFO, and though no one ever mentioned my drinking, I was naive to think it wasn't affecting my abilities over time. I simply failed to monitor a routine thing on a not so sharp morning. So it was a contributor. That would have never gotten by me on a sharp day.
I too am a student of Eastern Religion and Philosophy, and I find that it is one of the things that satisfyingly occupies my would be drinking time and quiets my mind.
I wish you the very best of luck. I can tell you from knowing my own personality, surrender, defeat, failure, and seeking help are not natural. It has taken me several years completely away from the game, and several failed sobriety attempts to realize that for long-term recovery I better get used to these things.
I really found a connection to your posts. The way you describe your personality is a spot on match to mine. I showed my wife and she thought I wrote it. I held a high stress, well-paying trading head position at a very large firm at an abnormally young age. The drinking part of that business was initially a pre-requisite to doing business. Eventually that spilled into my home life and as you stated, gained momentum. I can remember the days of closing the office door all day, dimming the lights, taking zero calls and speaking minimally in meetings. Hell I slept under the trading desk one night after getting plastered at a Yankees Playoff game.
Eventually I lost that job due to a "failure to properly supervise". We were making money hand over fist, but it was a cover your own ass move by the CFO, and though no one ever mentioned my drinking, I was naive to think it wasn't affecting my abilities over time. I simply failed to monitor a routine thing on a not so sharp morning. So it was a contributor. That would have never gotten by me on a sharp day.
I too am a student of Eastern Religion and Philosophy, and I find that it is one of the things that satisfyingly occupies my would be drinking time and quiets my mind.
I wish you the very best of luck. I can tell you from knowing my own personality, surrender, defeat, failure, and seeking help are not natural. It has taken me several years completely away from the game, and several failed sobriety attempts to realize that for long-term recovery I better get used to these things.
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@artsoul: Thanks for checking in. Day 3 down and feeling a bit better! The shakiness & sickness are starting to improve and I'm weaning off the valium now, so feeling a bit more human and like my feet are nearing the ground again. The transformation from active binge drinker back to sober person blows my mind a bit; generally when I imagine myself drinking, I think I just envision me plus a drink, and I somehow manage to block out the alternate personality and global shift that seems to come along with it. I think I'd forgotten what a dramatically different person I am as a drunk.
The tricky part of starting to feel better physically (as BackToSquareOne alluded to above), is that as the fog lifts I'm left staring at the the original sadness that I was looking to escape from on the last binge. Of course the cravings suggest (or demand) a simple way to ease the pain, but I'm thankfully not so shortsighted that I'd seriously consider a drink as a good idea. So instead, I'm working at accepting things moment by moment, not running from the discomfort, not trying to change the sadness, recognizing the pain, and not trying to win control. Just trying to be without getting cynical and without looking for a way out. Hell of a challenge, but this is sort of what "surrender" seems to mean to me right now. I'd be lying if I proclaimed that I've felt as Zen all day as that last sentence may have sounded; In truth it was a humbling day and I thought of a neat single malt scotch no less than 20 times. My pulse jumped, my mouth watered, and a wave of anticipation crashed thru my body each time. Rather than ignore the impulse, pound it into the back of my mind, or become hyper critical about such weak thinking, I tried a new strategy - recognize the thought, recognize the urge, unhook from my attachment to both and focus back to larger reality of the moment. Got me thru them all.
@Humbled77: Always amazed at the connections the stories here sometimes share. Interestingly enough, years ago when I was still back East, I had a serious drunken workplace debacle directly related to a Yankee playoff game as well (I blamed the Red Sox for that one). It sounds like we've been on similar tracks work wise - I'm young for the position I hold, have a lot of stress/responsibility on my shoulders, and am in charge of a lot of people at sort of a hot-shot, work-hard/play-hard type of company. I'm at times completely mystified as to how I've hung on to my career and even seemingly thrived amidst losing just about everything else, but I guess that's my "yet"... Best of luck to you too.
The tricky part of starting to feel better physically (as BackToSquareOne alluded to above), is that as the fog lifts I'm left staring at the the original sadness that I was looking to escape from on the last binge. Of course the cravings suggest (or demand) a simple way to ease the pain, but I'm thankfully not so shortsighted that I'd seriously consider a drink as a good idea. So instead, I'm working at accepting things moment by moment, not running from the discomfort, not trying to change the sadness, recognizing the pain, and not trying to win control. Just trying to be without getting cynical and without looking for a way out. Hell of a challenge, but this is sort of what "surrender" seems to mean to me right now. I'd be lying if I proclaimed that I've felt as Zen all day as that last sentence may have sounded; In truth it was a humbling day and I thought of a neat single malt scotch no less than 20 times. My pulse jumped, my mouth watered, and a wave of anticipation crashed thru my body each time. Rather than ignore the impulse, pound it into the back of my mind, or become hyper critical about such weak thinking, I tried a new strategy - recognize the thought, recognize the urge, unhook from my attachment to both and focus back to larger reality of the moment. Got me thru them all.
@Humbled77: Always amazed at the connections the stories here sometimes share. Interestingly enough, years ago when I was still back East, I had a serious drunken workplace debacle directly related to a Yankee playoff game as well (I blamed the Red Sox for that one). It sounds like we've been on similar tracks work wise - I'm young for the position I hold, have a lot of stress/responsibility on my shoulders, and am in charge of a lot of people at sort of a hot-shot, work-hard/play-hard type of company. I'm at times completely mystified as to how I've hung on to my career and even seemingly thrived amidst losing just about everything else, but I guess that's my "yet"... Best of luck to you too.
NobleCause what you described above "I tried a new strategy - recognize the thought, recognize the urge, unhook from my attachment to both and focus back to larger reality of the moment. Got me thru them all", sounds a lot like mindfulness meditation. Learning to live in the present, not the past or future is much easier said then done.
The trick is to let the thoughts come as they will, recognize them for what they are and bring yourself back to the present. The absolute worst thing to do is to try to block them out, it only makes them stronger. Even in the basic meditation of the breath, (keeping your focus on the breath) the thoughts will still keep flowing. You don't fight them, you see them for what they are, just thoughts, and bring your focus back to the breath.
Good luck with everything NobleCause, I've gained a lot of insight from your thread.
The trick is to let the thoughts come as they will, recognize them for what they are and bring yourself back to the present. The absolute worst thing to do is to try to block them out, it only makes them stronger. Even in the basic meditation of the breath, (keeping your focus on the breath) the thoughts will still keep flowing. You don't fight them, you see them for what they are, just thoughts, and bring your focus back to the breath.
Good luck with everything NobleCause, I've gained a lot of insight from your thread.
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