Justfor1

No not me. :rotfxko I'm still working the steps and helping people out at AA. They say addiction is a disease yet people act surprised sometimes when people relapse or repeatedly relapse over & over. One of the symptoms of a disease is that it can come back. I am baffled then when a treatment center kicks someone out for relapsing? Or the AA member telling the slipper that they "just don't want it enough." I use to be ashamed of being "in and out" of the program for nearly a decade. However, I now realize that it was necessary for me to reach this point. I guess I'm sharing here but I really would like to know everyones views on relapse.

UniqueNewYork

I have .. complicated views on relapse.

Ok first don't ever give up. It has taken me dozens of attempts to quit to string any significant days together. I have 67 days this time. The most I have had is 4 months and it was a night and day difference in quality of life.

There is a guy who used to come to meetings I went to a while back. Lots of tattoos of naked women and **** on his forearms, very obvious mental issues once you talk to him, hard drug addiction like heroin and probably crack I don't remember all the details. He made AA a running joke. He would make jokes like "I'm saving up my white chips so I can build a house out of them". On the one hand I'm glad he came coming back. I think he had wet brain or a similar condition. On the other hand there is a point where you need to **** or get off the pot. I think he was doing the best he could do given his mental issues. Sometimes I think he falls under the category in the BB where it talks about there are those who will be unable to be honest with themselves and able to follow this simple program (paraphrasing). So maybe its just enough that he kept coming back because I don't know how bad his life has been. He was a badass looking dude tough as nails by appearances so he probably has had it harder than most of us can imagine from a young age. Regardless I can't judge him. But I know it bugged some members that he made AA seem like a joke. Many saw him as a poster child for drug addiction. I have known some hard drug addicts i.e. heroin and they can get sober if they are willing to follow the program in a strict manner.

Justfor1

Unique, that sounds like a guy at the local AA club that was banned because he admitted that he just liked to sell stolen merchandise after meetings. He made AA a joke. However, I know people who really want to stop and experience horrible consequences (myself included) who just can't seem to get more than a few months. Also I wonder what people classify as a relapse? For example, a guy 5 years sober and takes 1 glass of wine at a wedding. Is that a relapse if he didn't suffer any consequences? I would say no but I know many folks who would say otherwise. Relapse is a part of recovery I sometimes hear and other times the opposite. What is a relapse? Is relapse a sign of being weak? These have been things I've been thinking about lately. It's weird because I am still sober too.

CarolD

I did return to drinking many times before I actually quit.
I do not use the terms relapse or slip about those.

Instead I consider them not successful...
I was not committed to AA tho I did attend meetings.
My recovery required change and action.

Justfor1

Carol, I like the fact that you don't use the terms "relapse" and "slip". I think sometimes those are self defeating terms or something.

UniqueNewYork

I'm with you and Carol on this one. I don't get the obsession with certain things in all this.. like buzz words such as relapse. If I drink its because all the bad things inside me a few of which include weakness, fear and isolation won out over the good things inside me such as strength, courage and love. This is just what works for me. There are times when I tell myself that to drink is to be a (another word for a wuss). If theres one thing I hate more than drinking its to be that. When I tie those things together, I usually end up in the gym lifting. Its almost like I'm taking my ego and I'm slamming him on the ground and saying look you're gonna work for me instead of against me I don't want any crap out of you none of that john wayne ********. Its like i'm giving myself that speech out of fight club that Brad Pitt's character gives to Edward Norton's:

Narrator: Tyler, I'm grateful to you; for everything that you've done for me. But this is too much. I don't want this.
Tyler Durden: What do you want? Wanna go back to the **** job, ******' condo world, watching sitcoms? **** you, I won't do it.

newby1961

Those terms aren't used in the Big Book its something that came out of a treatment center. I think the bottom line is I chose to pick up again and drink. There is nothing about a slip or a relapse I just stop working a program. For many years in & out of the rooms of AA I referred to myself as a chronic relapser and I think by using such a label I was offering myself an excuse to keep drinking. IMO its all a mind game. Your sober when you don't engage in drinking.

Supercrew

I might not be too popular for my thoughts regarding relapse/drinking after a period of sobriety. But I think it is a conscious decision that we make. The longer you remain sober and the less active you stay in your recovery the better chance you have at deciding to try it again.

Most of us drank because we enjoyed it on some level, and once the memory of the pain that it brought us in the past subsides it is easy to have the opinion that a few drinks aren't going to kill you, and hell you stopped before, and you are feeling good or bad or sad or you just deserve one. Couple that with maybe a situation where people are drinking and I see why it is easy to fall back in the same trap.

I can also see this happening if the person didn't really want to quit to begin with. Say you were quitting because your marriage was going to hell, but now everything is fine, or it continued to go to hell, "well why did I stop to begin with...for her."

Plus many of us never really believe that the next drink will really kill us or ruin us, so we gamble because the percentages are in our favor, and couple that with the fact that your brain is telling you to have one because it still remembers the good feelings and the relaxation a drink once brought you. Why do many of us relapse, because we are human, the same reason why we stuff ourselves like pigs on Thanksgiving every year even though we know how bad we felt last Thanksgiving after we ate too much.

The pleasure outweighs the pain in the short term.

CarolD

SC...
can you pin point why you did drink again after months of sober time?

TwelveSteps

From the beginning I was very committed to AA, worked the steps with a great sponsor, and attended meetings every day. It still took me over a year to get my first 90-day chip. Sometimes we just have to go through what we have to go through to get where our Higher Power wants us to be.

Just keep coming back and don't give up.

GG

Veritas1

More About Alcoholism
In some instances there has been brief recovery, followed always by a still worse relapse.

To Wives
Though it is infinitely better that he have no relapse at all, as has been true with many of our men, it is by no means a bad thing in some cases.

The Family Afterward
In most cases, the alcoholic survived this ordeal without relapse, but not always.

More About Alcoholism
So we shall describe some of the mental states that precede a relapse into drinking, for obviously this is the crux of the problem.

There Is A Solution
Above all, he believed he had acquired such a profound knowledge of the inner workings of his mind and its hidden springs that relapse was unthinkable.

Working With Others
We have seen others slip when the family came back too soon.

To Employers
Presently the man did slip and was fired.

As Bill Sees It

Quantity or Quality, p. 11

"About this slip business--I would not be too discouraged. I think you are suffering a great deal from a needless guilt. For some reason or other, the Lord has laid out tougher paths for some of us, and I guess you are treading one of them. God is not asking us to be successful. He is only asking us to try to be. That, you surely are doing, and have been doing. So I would not stay away from A.A. through any feeling of discouragement or shame. It's just the place you should be. Why don't you try just as a member? You don't have to carry the whole A.A. on your back, you know!

"It is not always the quantity of good things that you do, it is also the quality that counts.

"Above all, take it one day at a time."

24hrsAday

i have to agree with Carol on this.. i was attending A.A. meetings and giving a half ass effort (sporadically) here and there from time to time. then i felt "well" again and commenced to drink.. i had to get bad enough then i surrendered.

LaFemme

I don't consider the handful of days I would periodically string together in the 5 years I tried to quit as being sober, they were just tiny breaks in my drinking....so I don't consider picking up after a few days a relapse.

If I were to drink again it would be one of two things 1. Forgetting the horror of what it was like...this is why I come here or 2. A desire to kill myself (hence therapy). As long as I stay aware of those two things I am not in danger of relapse.

I think everyone is different and I am the last one to judge another. When a long timer relapses it scares me so I redouble my efforts...but I can see how that fear would cause another to lash out at the relapsed...the person who represents our greatest fear.

Supercrew

Because I wanted to. I didn't have a craving, I wasn't obsessing about alcohol, my life was straightened out, I quit coming to SR because I was getting board with it, and I wanted to see whether I was a real alcoholic or not...I stopped on my own, and I was told I was not.

I could make up a million excuses, but basically it was because I wanted to and I had a short memory. I didn't see that then, but it's pretty obvious to me now.

ronf

It took me 5 years of going in and out. I always liked the term "slip" it sounds so accidental and innocent Till I realized I was the one throwing the banana peels on the side walk in front of where i was walking. LOL. I can only speak for myself. I learned that for me the alcoholism continued too get stronger even when I wasn't drinking. This doesn't mean it got harder to stay sober, it means my next drunk would be even worse than my last. I had 2 years sober, working all the steps I was Mr. AA. Had a 3 day weekend and my alcoholic committee in my head convinced me it would be all right to drink. In 3 days I drank myself back into detox. THAT was finally my bottom, that was my last drunk almost 15 years ago. Some times to this day all the AA and spirituality in the world don't mean squat to me, but that memory and the intellectual knowledge that my next drunk will be even worse yet has kept me sober.

Ron

rws177

Well as someone who slipped or relapsed recently this topic is all I have been thinking about....

I guess that I am still dealing with the quilt and shame for having that 1 night relapse after a year and a half sober. However it has gotten me to take AA alot more seriously and who knows maybe that will save my life. I'm actually speaking in meetings, staying after and getting to know others, going to big book meetings and just making an all around bigger effort. I'm 27 and hope that I can get back that one year feeling and add many more to it!

LosingmyMisery

I finally quit, and stayed sober, once I totally committed to making sobriety my main priority in life. We have many priorities, but unless I stayed sober my priorities took a back seat to my drinking.

I did relapse early on. I was taking steps, but not giving it my all. I discovered the hard way how the beast slumbered and when released had grown with a vengeance. I know, a bit dramatic, but the fact of the matter is...it is true. The progression scares the h*ll out of me.

I've always had a healthy respect for the lessons learned the hard way. I know I never want to go back to drinking, but there are no guarantees. My cravings have gone and I have no desire to drink, but what if they return? Today, I simply don't drink and I don't dwell on wanting a drink, or missing alcohol. I actually hate alcohol and how it destroys.

It has been nearly seven years and each day I don't drink, but in the back of my mind I will always wonder...what if the cravings return? Once I did the work recovery was relatively easy. What if that changes? It is on me to remain vigilant and prepared. I have come to far to fall back into the pit. For me, relapse isn't an option. I know what it entails and I'm not willing to go there. It just isn't worth it. Why invite unnecessary drama into my life? Who needs it? Not me.

skg

More to the point, alcoholism NEVER goes away. What is required is constant vigilance and spiritual health. That's the prescription to be taken everyday. Complacency, laziness, and simply doing nothing leads back to the same tiresome insanity.

My sponsor passed this on to me: "Being involved in recovery is like being in a river. One can swim upstream, downstream, cross-stream or simply float -- in all cases the river inevitably carries one along it's course. Standing on the bank watching the river does not offer the same result."

Kjell

Hi Just-

Have I relasped before? I guess I have, but when was I really trying to quit? How can I really know when I was being honest with myself and with others.

I tried to control my drinking, right up until I quit. That's about the best way I can describe it.

Now if I drank today or any other day going forward, that would definitely be a relapse b/c I'm not longer ignorant of my own alcoholism.

Kjell~

Kjell

This is a gem and should be the focus of it's own thread (hint hint).

Kjell~