Rift

Just wondering about this. I mean if somebody just goes on an all day into the night binge does this make one an alcoholic? What if they DO have the power to stop at a couple but continue to drink just b/c they want to get wasted?

I know a great deal of people who will get completely wasted once or twice a week but I have seen them on other occasions where they ARE ABLE to just have that 'Normal" one or two drinks and then stop.

I just think it's hard to define what an alcoholic is exactly. There are just too many variables ya know?

It seems to me that a true alcoholic is one who is PHYSICALLY dependent on alcohol. One who has withdrawals if they don't drink everyday or when they don't feel "normal"

Che

Who are you trying to convince? Are you trying to say you are not an alcoholic? Are you speaking the hypothetical?

I think binge drinking is unhealthy, alcoholic or no. If you binge drink with any regularity, then there is a high chance you're an alcoholic.

One thing to remember about alcoholism is that it's progressive. Most alcoholics didn't start out drinking all day. They first did things that they thought were reasonable. Only getting wasted on the weekends. Only having a half a bottle a day during the week. Only having more than half a bottle if there's something important the next day. Drinking more than half a bottle every night.

I don't really care what a 'true alcoholic' is. You can't look at someone in the late stages of alcoholism and say that because you're not 'that bad,' you aren't an alcoholic. You have to actually look at your drinking tendencies, and if you're suspicious there might be a problem (ie why you're here at all), then you should probably try to quit. If you have trouble, then there's not much else to say but you came to the right place :P

edit: If we talk specifically about these people you know that binge drink on weekends.... What happens when they don't have alcohol one weekend? Does it feel incomplete? Do they try to work in that binge drinking no matter what? This is what they mean by 'are you planning your next drink' in those little questionnaires. They want to know if you're dependent on alcohol.

Rift

I was just curious b/c I'm trying to decide if certain people I know are alcoholic. For me, I'm here at SR because I do have problems with drinking. I have never been an everday drinker at all but when I do drink it is usually until I pass out. So yea I guess I could be considered an alcoholic. But then again I have the right to think about anyway I want to ya know. The one thing with me is I have never been physically addicted to booze. I have tendencies to want to drink and get wasted but if one drinks at all more often then not that person enjoys "tying one on" on occasion. Some may drink responsibly, but I just feel like if you drink then you more than likely get drunk on occasion (alcoholic or not).

Just my opinion. I don't want to split any hairs here.

joedris

There is no commonly accepted definition of "alcoholic". The AMA has one, the shrinks have theirs in DSM-IV, every rehab program in existence has their own if for no other reason than to manipulate their statistical successes.

I consider myself an alcoholic because I could not not drink. I am physically addicted to alcohol. Simple.

Che

Ah okay. I was just worried you might be rationalizing your way into a drink.

Dee74

I started as a binge drinker.

I used to be able to stop, and stop for days, because I had work or other comittments or whatever.

Then I couldn't.

I ended up an all day everyday drinker...but the pattern of consumption - drink to get wasted - remained pretty much the same throughout.

Whether you use the A word or not I think binge drinking is dangerous and very unhealthy.

D

artsoul

Hi DWD - I think it is hard to pinpoint exactly what defines an alcoholic, as though there is only one type..... Personally, agree with the model that talks about the "stages" of alcoholism.

I started out as a binge drinker (drank a couple times a month, almost always got drunk, but didn't think a thing of it on other days). It wasn't until my late 20's/early 30's that I started to drink more often and would say things like "I could really use a drink right now." By the time I was in my mid 30's I began to suspect I might have a problem, and it progressed from there.

I do think some people can abuse alcohol and "grow out of it." But for anyone who intends to just have a drink or two and finds they can't control the urge to have more, that feels more to me like the early stages of alcoholism.

JMO...............

Rift

see that's the thing. The physical side to it. The people that I am curious about don't seem to be this way and really I have never been at a point where "I could not not drink." I would go weeks without drinking but when I drank it was never one or two. More like 18-22 drinks. Then I'd pass out or stay up all night

Rift

For me, I don't think I could fall into the pattern of drinking everyday. I would be too sick the next day to want to drink the very next day.

I DO admit to having that urge to want to continue drinking once I have a drink or two. I admit that it IS uncomfortable for me to only have a couple so....I dont know.

newby1961

I fall into the binge catagory but IMO an alcoholic is described in the big book its in the first 164 pages but I really like the Dr's Opinion and More about alcoholism. If drinking causes any negative effect in ones life there could be a chance. If you really want to know for yourself or as you say for other people educate yourself and read the Big Book all your questions will be answered.

saphira

I used to be shocked that people could drink everyday because I felt the same you do...I used to feel so sick the next day that even the thought of drinking would make me throw up. Fast forward 4 years and I turned into the person who would start drinking every night at 5 on the dot and would drink until I passed out. You may still be in the early stages, but make no mistake...it will get worse. Right before I stopped drinking (which was recent) I was drinking almost everyday. I could make it a few days but only because the weekend was looming ahead like a carrot to a bunny. I finally realized that alcohol consumed my thoughts and that I was living to drink. Only you know if you have a problem, but I urge you to think about it carefully. Up until a couple of weeks ago, I was still in denial about how badly my drinking had gotten. Good luck to you...

artsoul

Sometimes I think we get too academic about it....... I used to doubt my own alcoholism, but couldn't doubt my experiences......

If this is any help, I looked at your first post on SR and you made a list of things that had happened to you while drinking. Here's your list:

Only you can decide, but you seemed to have some pretty good reasons to stop....... right?

Rift

I just don't think I could deal with being hungover all the time every morning. I mean especially if you have a job or something important to do. How do people like this do it? I can't imagine waking up 6 or 7 days a week hungover and participating in life/job? I know people do it, I guess, but man o man what a miserable existence that must be to be an everday drinker. No offense to anyone.

Rift

O lord...I hate seeing that. But you have a point. Most of this happend when I was much younger and immature, but yea I get your point.

UniqueNewYork

I don't get too hung up on this, defining the alcoholic I mean. For our purposes to me an alcoholic is someone who's life has been negatively impacted by their drinking alcohol to a degree that they want to stop. The reverse elitists can be really annoying; those people who think if you didn't chug hard liquor you aren't a true alcoholic. I drank it all, sometimes only beer sometimes only liquor and oftentimes a mix of them not giving a damn about rhymes about beer and liquor makes you sicker. I've seen hardcore beer alcoholics with my own eyes growing up. I remember on one occasion I went to another kids house and his dad had enough used beer cans to build a house out of and the standoffish don't-talk-to-me-unless-you-like-bs attitude that comes with a lot of active alcoholics.

Supercrew

I agreed with you...until I realized the best way to cure a hangover for me was to have a bloody mary the next morning. Once I had the great idea of drinking the morning after is when the doors to full blown alcoholism in my mind really opened up for me.. I never meant to turn into a daily drinking alcoholic, I just wanted to make the pain go away from the night before.

Once it clicked in my mind that i could have a couple drinks in the AM then all of the sudden anytime was a good time for a drink in my mind. I also happen to have alot of freedom being in the field that I am in, so my couple of times a week binge drinking turned into 2 -3 day benders.

I didn't plan it that way, it just progressed, and before I knew it I was drinking 3 or 4 mornings a week then having some beers with lunch, then another 6 pack for the ride home then half a bottle of vodka from 7-12pm.

Rift

Supercrew,

I can def see how it can happen, no doubt about it. For me I never got into the whole "hair of the dog" thing. I would always wake up hungover and just want to lay in bed all day or eat a greasy meal.

I always wondered how an everyday drunk type of drinker lived life. I mean if you work you most likely drive so then you would be drinking and driving and working all while drunk EVERYDAY?!?! It just seems like something bad would happen eventually doing that..How would coworkers not know what you have been doing? you smell everyday, you would slur speech, have red eyes, look haggard/tired, ect.

JoeStrummer

I was a functioning alcoholic, drinking 5-7 units of alcohol virtually every night for 30 years while maintaining a job and supporting my family. I was pretty hung over almost every day, but kept it up anyway because, hey, I was 'functioning'. I could never quite understand binge drinkers who would go several days or weeks without drinking, and then let loose on a bender. It always seemed to me that if I could go a few days without drinking, I'd be on the way to sobriety. Likewise, a few binge drinkers with whom I was aquainted could not understand how I could stop and go to sleep after 5 or 6 drinks.

The point is that there seems to be almost as many types of alcoholics as there are alcoholics, but we all know that total abstinence is the only treatment for all of us, don't we?

artsoul

Sorry to make you cringe.....and you're right: sometimes youth and alcohol are the perfect storm. I'm still not saying you're an alcoholic..... maybe none of that stuff would ever happen again...... (?) I'm grateful I haven't repeated some of the behaviors of my teens/20's, that's for sure!

I was only able to accept my alcoholism when I actually tried to just have one or two and couldn't. And believe me, I tried!!

Rift

It's all good. I'm glad you brought that to my attention b/c yes those are enough reasons to stop and stay stopped. I would say that all of those did happen from ages 15 to 25. Pretty bad 10 year span.

And when I say I drank so young it can be done. I had older people buy me booze or I had a couple of different gas stations that would sell underage people beer/liqour. I really can't believe it though. I wonder if teens are able to buy booze thesedays. I guess some of them can just like me in my day.

On the having one or two drinks...I can't do it either. I have that strong urge to continue until I pass out most of the time.