skg

My favorite Al-Anon questions, in order:
1. Have you been DRINKING?!
2. How many drinks have you had?

Quit forcing me to lie!

Learn to set boundaries and fight the disease, not the diseased.

wanttobehealthy

I have separated from my AH -- I am not trying to force him to tell the truth. I am simply trying to figure out how to set a boundary around "I will not tolerate lying that impacts our children". I guess right now I'm left with few options other than a court order banning him from our children since he can not be trusted to keep a solitary promise.

As for "fight the disease, not the diseased", he IS in control of the choices he makes (since he is not drinking right now) so I have to disagree with not expecting him to be accountable for his behavior.

Frankly that thinking is reminiscent of what he says as a way to excuse his behavior. At some point I think he has to stop blaming the disease for all of his actions. Or he doesn't but I'm going to find a way to protect our kids. His disease doesn't give him the right to hurt his 5 yr old and 3 yr old (or his wife for that matter....)

The only period of time that there has been peace in recent months was the 3 weeks of a no contact order back in Jan. I just thought of that now and I think that's telling me a lot... Evidently interacting with him at all gives him room to lie and blame so I think that my plan is no contact until I see actions that make me think it's wise/safe to trust him again...

skg

The alcoholic mind is diseased, warped by saturation and denial, of selfish fear and self-centeredness. I don't expect you to understand--it's what frustrates those close to the alcoholic the most. The belief that the alcoholic has a choice of whether to drink or not is the biggest lie of all--because alcoholism robs him/her of that very choice.

I don't think I've suggested anything of the kind, so the hyperbole doesn't match the conversation, but I can understand your frustration. I'm not here to argue with you, although it would seem (from my perspective) that you're not satisfied with the efforts to help you understand. My final suggestion is the same as it has been all along: Seek out Friends and Family, Al-Anon, and those who can lead you to the solution. Arguments and ultimatums are a waste of time.

wanttobehealthy

Okay I get it. You don't like what I have to say and you aren't actually reading what I am saying, bc if you were you'd stop telling me to stop "arguing and offering ultimatums". I am doing neither. If what I have to say is so frustrating to you perhaps you should worry less about what I am saying and worry more about your own recovery. Thanks.

wanttobehealthy

Prior to the first drink you absolutely DO have a choice. I've sat through enough family nights in rehab with my husband to have heard this beaten into all of our heads by the folks running the programs. I think you might need to rethink that stance.

Dee74

Let's all chill a little here ...we're all on the same side, or we should be.

There's some really good advice here wanttobehealthy...all people can offer you is their experience...

there's no formulaic manual tho, because every relationship is individual and everybody definitions of things boundaries and trust etc are too...I would focus on whether you feel this relationship is hurting you, and just how much you're personally prepared to put up with.

I hope at least some of whats been shared in this thread is helpful to you

D

artsoul

Hi iwant - I had a passing thought on the subject of lying that may or may not be helpful.

I think some people (not just alcoholics) have a problem with lying. But I also know that many alcoholics are pretty truthful people except when it comes to our drinking. In other words, if he's a pretty honest guy, he might have only lied about the drinking part (?) - if he's still lying after the drinking has stopped or lied in the past about other things, it might be that he has a problem apart from alcohol.

I hid my drinking because I was ashamed and fearful that those I loved would try to make my stop. I hated myself for it.

Getting back the trust is a slow, slow process after we've been hurt and/or lied to. If he's not serious about his recovery, I would think you'll know soon enough even without having to ask. Hope things get better for you soon!

wanttobehealthy

thanks artsoul-- i think that in the back of my mind i've been wondering about exactly what you've said-- there's lying about everything big and small with my H-- things there is no need to lie about, he lies about.... and considering that he was dianosed with borderline personality disorder about a year ago, i guess i should accept the fact that this is about a lot more than just alcoholism-- i've been trying to delude myself and i guess it's time to face the facts...

Fandy

at some point, you may realize that you are doing all of his recovery work...and getting so little in return.

you and your daughters deserve so much more than he is willing to give. I hope he one day has an epiphany and races towards recovery and begs your forgiveness and becomes what he should be, supportive and loving, responsible and a good father.

unfortunately, it may not happen. But you can't waste your life waiting for him to have a revelation.

I make the choice every day...not to drink. It's my decision and I accept responsibility for it....when I screw up, I have to accept responsibiity for that part too. If I have a disease, i caused it.

I hope you and your daughters have some peace instead of this horrible tug or war with your selfish, giant baby-husband.

skg

I suggest reading, "The Dilemma of the Alcoholic Marriage, by Al-Anon Family Group," as a starting point. I also recommend, "The Lois Wilson Story: When Love Is Not Enough"; (William G Borchert 2008) toward understanding the foundation of Al-Anon and the patience of love. I believe it was made into a Hallmark Special, but I haven't watched it myself. Sorta got the t-shirt, hat, coffee cup, and my own alanons already...

wanttobehealthy

Thank you Fandy... I know I get sucked into the tug o' war... I've tried detaching and clearly need to try harder... I start to feel good and happy and focussed on the girls and I and it's like he pulls out the heavy artillery to get me to take the bait (and I know I am quick to do so which is my issue) so that the status quo stays the same...

I keep telling him and I mean it truly, that I can forgive anything and can be of help to him if he wants it and one day I am a saint and the next the devil and I can be doing the same exact thing on both days.... And instead of being able to roll my eyes and walk away I genuinely feel like I might be going crazy and I question whether it really is me and I KNOW he knows that I question myself and it makes me that much bigger of an easy target...

I wish there was a way to get him to see that while it is too late for our marriage, it is not yet too late for his relationship with his kids-- though he is doing a bang up job of making our 5 yr old think he is a sleaze bag all on his own... There's only so many times I can tell her she's wrong about the observations she's making based on the stuff he's pulling in front of her...

Even if he doesn't want to get well for himself, it is just beyond comprehension how somoene who is sober and sees how much his young kids love him and are hurting STILL can't get out of his own way...

I feel for him but for my kids most of all... I think it's harder to have a parent who physically is around but who is really not there in any other meaningful way than it would be to not have him around at all... Sad...

shadow9808

you should try not to have expectations from people because you will be dissapointed nearly every time. remember alcoholic people will always hurt the ones they love most. give him an ultimatum and stick to it just like you would a child.

Fandy

yes, it's sad that he is too selfish for the children too. all you can do is protect them and give a non-detailed explanation to them...they are very young...Daddy's too sick to understand what he is saying....let's say a prayer that he gets better.

don't rise to his baiting,,, again give him a firm line and stick to it. don't even try to have a sane explanation..let him rant to your attorney who will be harder for him to engage.