Difference Between Mental Obsessions & Craving?
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Difference Between Mental Obsessions & Craving?
Don't mean to launch a semantic debate or split hairs, just wondering if anyone could describe the distinction (or overlap)? I've heard both terms used in meetings, seemingly interchangeably in context, so am unclear as to what the difference is, if any...
I'm 25 days sober, on a bit of a roller coaster of cravings (or what I think would be called cravings), and, while not truly all that hung up on the terminology, I feel like being better able to identify which is which might help me to defuse them as they strike.
I'm 25 days sober, on a bit of a roller coaster of cravings (or what I think would be called cravings), and, while not truly all that hung up on the terminology, I feel like being better able to identify which is which might help me to defuse them as they strike.
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 323
I dont know what they are, but the only way I can overcome them is by constantly reinforcing my thoughts with what I will lose and what I will go back to if I drink every day. When I do this, I honestly think about alcohol less and less. Instead of thoughts like beer popping into my head and me thinking I want one, I typically only think of one when I see it somewhere, such as in an ad or at another table in a restaurant. This is so sad, but simply typing the word beer creates a craving in me. Whereas before I was fine, now my mouth literally waters, I think of the condensation on the bottle, the cold temperature of the beer, the flavor, smell, etc. The only way I can defeat the thought is to reinforce what I would lose.
I am an alcoholic. I cannot drink. When I drink, I lose all self respect, all control, all opportunity to build healthy relationships or a career. Unless I believe this, I will drink again. If I let it creep in my head that this time will be different, that history will not repeat itself, then I will lose everything.
I am an alcoholic. I cannot drink. When I drink, I lose all self respect, all control, all opportunity to build healthy relationships or a career. Unless I believe this, I will drink again. If I let it creep in my head that this time will be different, that history will not repeat itself, then I will lose everything.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Wappingers Falls, NY
Posts: 618
Re:Difference Between Mental Obsessions & Craving?
Thanks NobleCause for the topic.
I think the AA literature defines both as "personal compulsions" that condemns us to go on drinking despite it's destructive forces. The literature goes on to say how subtle yet powerful those mental obsessions can become. So, powerful that no amount of human willpower could break it. It was a statistical fact, they say, that alcoholics almost never recovered on their own resources -How True.
They say and I'm quoting here: "Even these "last-gaspers" often had difficulty in realizing how hopeless they actually were. But a few did, and when these laid hold of A.A. principles with all the fervor with which the drowning seize life preservers, they almost invariably got well". "Under the lash of alcoholism, we are driven to A.A., and there we discover the fatal nature of our situation. Then, and only then, do we become as open-minded to conviction and as willing to listen as the dying can be. We stand ready to do anything which will lift the merciless obsession from us"-Amen (excerpts from step one).
Quotes from either 12&12
or BB 1st. Edition
I think the AA literature defines both as "personal compulsions" that condemns us to go on drinking despite it's destructive forces. The literature goes on to say how subtle yet powerful those mental obsessions can become. So, powerful that no amount of human willpower could break it. It was a statistical fact, they say, that alcoholics almost never recovered on their own resources -How True.
They say and I'm quoting here: "Even these "last-gaspers" often had difficulty in realizing how hopeless they actually were. But a few did, and when these laid hold of A.A. principles with all the fervor with which the drowning seize life preservers, they almost invariably got well". "Under the lash of alcoholism, we are driven to A.A., and there we discover the fatal nature of our situation. Then, and only then, do we become as open-minded to conviction and as willing to listen as the dying can be. We stand ready to do anything which will lift the merciless obsession from us"-Amen (excerpts from step one).
Quotes from either 12&12
or BB 1st. Edition
Last edited by CarolD; 03-18-2011 at 10:03 AM. Reason: Added source per SR copy right guideline
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As AA's Big Book uses the terms, "craving" is what makes us want to continue to drink without heed for the consequences once we get even a little bit in us. "Obsession" or "mental obsession" is what you are experiencing right now--the urge while we are sober to drink, the inability to put it out of our mind. According to AA's definition of alcoholism, those are the two characteristics that make one an acoholic. Both are indicators of powerlessness, whether or not we have a drink in us. One makes us start drinking, even when we KNOW we shouldn't and that we can't drink normally, and the other makes us unable to stop once we have begun.
Lots of people refer to the urge or obsession as "craving", but as the BB uses them, they mean two different things.
BB quote-1st. Edition
Lots of people refer to the urge or obsession as "craving", but as the BB uses them, they mean two different things.
BB quote-1st. Edition
Last edited by CarolD; 03-18-2011 at 10:03 AM. Reason: Added source per SR copy right guideline
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The dictionary definition of crave is: to long for; want greatly; desire eagerly. And boy, did I long for a drink when I first quit. Only every minute of the day for the first month. I don't think many of us on a recovery forum would misunderstand your use of the term "craving" to describe what you are going through. The only time I felt the need to break out the AA definition was if a poster said they didn't crave alcohol, but admitted to drinking sprees. Craving, in that sense, was driving the spree, or binge.
As for getting through your craving, call someone from your group (if you are in AA). Post here. Distract yourself, do anything but pick up that drink because that longing will pass! Drink and you will have to go through this all over again.
As for getting through your craving, call someone from your group (if you are in AA). Post here. Distract yourself, do anything but pick up that drink because that longing will pass! Drink and you will have to go through this all over again.
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Cravings are physical, you can get them for up to a week after ceasing to intake alcoholc into your system...the "cravings" we experience beyond that are the mental obsession...
It's much the same as stopping smoking, cravings last for 3 days which is as long as it takes the nicotine to leave the system and after that, once again, its all in the head:-)
It's much the same as stopping smoking, cravings last for 3 days which is as long as it takes the nicotine to leave the system and after that, once again, its all in the head:-)
Om, Aum, Ohm...
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Location: Punxsutawney/Pittsburgh
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Dr. Bob said that he "craved" a drink for two years after he quit, which, if you're equating craving with the compulsion to drink more ("phenomenon of craving") once you start, doesn't make a lot of sense.
I focused on the semantic difference for a long time until I started really thinking about my early recovery and listening to the women I was working with. The mind is a very powerful thing, and even in the absence of alcohol in the body, thoughts of drinking can bring on a visceral reaction that could be termed a "craving."
Unlike the craving that sets in after we start drinking--when not taking the second, third, twentieth drink is near impossible--the craving resulting from mental obsession doesn't have to result in drinking.
I prayed my way out of the obsessiveness, talked with others in recovery about it to take the power out of it, got busy doing something else to shift the focus--anything but picking up a drink, because once that's done, it's a whole other ball game. Eventually, and in the process of taking the steps, the mental obsession was lifted from me.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
I focused on the semantic difference for a long time until I started really thinking about my early recovery and listening to the women I was working with. The mind is a very powerful thing, and even in the absence of alcohol in the body, thoughts of drinking can bring on a visceral reaction that could be termed a "craving."
Unlike the craving that sets in after we start drinking--when not taking the second, third, twentieth drink is near impossible--the craving resulting from mental obsession doesn't have to result in drinking.
I prayed my way out of the obsessiveness, talked with others in recovery about it to take the power out of it, got busy doing something else to shift the focus--anything but picking up a drink, because once that's done, it's a whole other ball game. Eventually, and in the process of taking the steps, the mental obsession was lifted from me.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 567
NobleCause, thank you to for this question. It helps us in our own recovery, to practice the pricinple of passing on the message of Hope.
It did not take me long to accept the physical "alergy", which is the Phenomenon of Craving AFTER the first drink of alcohol, when it became known to me.
And I dranK ALOT, once I started to drink alcohol.
What took me longer to learn ( and still learning) was the way my mind "operates", it's thought process towards alcohol, that one day I may be able to drink like those that drink and not get noticed.
When I drank alcohol, it became "public knowledge" because of my actions after I took the first drink.
Step 1 can be broken down to 2 parts.
Powerless and Life unmanageable.
Let's look at part 1, "Powerless over alcohol" and break this down in 2 parts to, A & B.
Part A of Poweless is if we are a real alcoholic, meaning the way our body reacts to alcohol, chemicaly, it is physical.
So ask your self this, "do you crave more alcohol after you put alcohol in your body"?
Part B is what happens aside from the craving, the change in personality.
So,
A: do you crave more alcohol, and
B: do you "change" or have people said to you, "you change when you drink"?
Both A & B, I know I am poweless to stop that, the physical craving and the change in personality.
This "change" for me I thought was completely normal, I thought everybody has this, and that's what drinmking was meant to be all about.
It's just that I had it more, or I thought I was smarter than others, or I am a "free spirit" and others just don't know how to party party!
I don't know of anyone winning the olympics for playing handball up against the gutter with one hand and holding glass of alcohol in the other.
By then I am well on my way to a spree, and ultimately blackout, because the craving intensifes with the more alcohol, and all this time, to me this is "normal", in fact it IS normal for it to happen if I am a reral alcoholic.
My personality by then is anything but normal, and the delusion is I think it is normal.
My life then becomes unmanageable and over time, impossible.
By then I have become alienated from the world, and my mind will still tell me, it's not my fault, everyone else is to blame.
Some keep on drinking, some take note during a "moment of clarity", realizing, something just ain't right, "where IS everybody"? during the Remorse phase of this vicious cycle. ( someone hi-jacked the gutter )
Below is a post explaining in detail the proven medical facts of what a craving actaully is, because back then it was a theory, till technology later on proved the theory to be a real, the "phenomenon of craving" is real, it will happen.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...al-alergy.html
-------------------
Obsession, then is mind stuff, once having taken a few simple steps, this "spritual awakening", or, realizing we don't HAVE to drink and it's perfectly OK to not drink if we have this "alergy", regardless of what the rest of the normal drinking world thinks, then the obssesion has probably been removed. Not cured, we are never cured.
That is why we have Steps 10-11-12.
The thought to drink may come and go, but instead of acting on that thought, we become "awake" or "aware" and recoil. We just think it, and get on with something esle, like trying to pass on the message of our own unique expiriences of recovery to the next suffering alcoholic who wants to recover.
( or stop helucinating about the olympics and handball playing up gainst the International gutters- this is termed as "doing geographicals)
That is how the founders of AA did it back then, they did that to stay sober, or eventually face certain alcoholic death, prison or insanity if succumb to the thought, of drinkning.
The is no such thing as "controled drinking" for the real alcoholic, same as there is no sugar limitations for a real diabetic.
-----------------
Another illustration is this.
"How many sugars in your coffe" a friend may ask. You say, "none, I am diabetic". Friend says, "ok, no problem"
"Have a beer", a friend may offer. You say, "no I am alcoholic"
Friend then says, "aww come on, one won't hurt", or in peer preasure situations, our "friends" may walk away as if we are lepers.
Why?
---------------
Finaly, "real alcoholic" has nothing to do with living on a park bench or a penthhouse.
That's a false perception is for the ignorant and is not our problem, it is theirs.
In law, they tell us "ignorance of law is no excuse", don't they?
If the speed zone is 60 and you are doing 75, you cannot say to the judge, "but your honour, they never told me and I am a nephew of yours truly".
This phenomenon of craving does not discriminate no matter who's human body it's got.
No matter who breaks the speed limit, it will cost a fine sooner or later.
If you are real alcoholic, it will cause the phenomenon of craving, weather you are the judge or not, you and only you are that judge if you crave alcohol when you put alcohol in your body.
Once you have admitted to your inner most self, honestly, that you cannot control the amount of alcohol you drink, and your life is unmanageable,
then and only then there is room for Step 2.
Let the games begin, passing on the message of Hope for the real alcoholic is the best game around, simply stay sober to avoid the hitting the gutter.
It did not take me long to accept the physical "alergy", which is the Phenomenon of Craving AFTER the first drink of alcohol, when it became known to me.
And I dranK ALOT, once I started to drink alcohol.
What took me longer to learn ( and still learning) was the way my mind "operates", it's thought process towards alcohol, that one day I may be able to drink like those that drink and not get noticed.
When I drank alcohol, it became "public knowledge" because of my actions after I took the first drink.
Step 1 can be broken down to 2 parts.
Powerless and Life unmanageable.
Let's look at part 1, "Powerless over alcohol" and break this down in 2 parts to, A & B.
Part A of Poweless is if we are a real alcoholic, meaning the way our body reacts to alcohol, chemicaly, it is physical.
So ask your self this, "do you crave more alcohol after you put alcohol in your body"?
Part B is what happens aside from the craving, the change in personality.
So,
A: do you crave more alcohol, and
B: do you "change" or have people said to you, "you change when you drink"?
Both A & B, I know I am poweless to stop that, the physical craving and the change in personality.
This "change" for me I thought was completely normal, I thought everybody has this, and that's what drinmking was meant to be all about.
It's just that I had it more, or I thought I was smarter than others, or I am a "free spirit" and others just don't know how to party party!
I don't know of anyone winning the olympics for playing handball up against the gutter with one hand and holding glass of alcohol in the other.
By then I am well on my way to a spree, and ultimately blackout, because the craving intensifes with the more alcohol, and all this time, to me this is "normal", in fact it IS normal for it to happen if I am a reral alcoholic.
My personality by then is anything but normal, and the delusion is I think it is normal.
My life then becomes unmanageable and over time, impossible.
By then I have become alienated from the world, and my mind will still tell me, it's not my fault, everyone else is to blame.
Some keep on drinking, some take note during a "moment of clarity", realizing, something just ain't right, "where IS everybody"? during the Remorse phase of this vicious cycle. ( someone hi-jacked the gutter )
Below is a post explaining in detail the proven medical facts of what a craving actaully is, because back then it was a theory, till technology later on proved the theory to be a real, the "phenomenon of craving" is real, it will happen.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...al-alergy.html
-------------------
Obsession, then is mind stuff, once having taken a few simple steps, this "spritual awakening", or, realizing we don't HAVE to drink and it's perfectly OK to not drink if we have this "alergy", regardless of what the rest of the normal drinking world thinks, then the obssesion has probably been removed. Not cured, we are never cured.
That is why we have Steps 10-11-12.
The thought to drink may come and go, but instead of acting on that thought, we become "awake" or "aware" and recoil. We just think it, and get on with something esle, like trying to pass on the message of our own unique expiriences of recovery to the next suffering alcoholic who wants to recover.
( or stop helucinating about the olympics and handball playing up gainst the International gutters- this is termed as "doing geographicals)
That is how the founders of AA did it back then, they did that to stay sober, or eventually face certain alcoholic death, prison or insanity if succumb to the thought, of drinkning.
The is no such thing as "controled drinking" for the real alcoholic, same as there is no sugar limitations for a real diabetic.
-----------------
Another illustration is this.
"How many sugars in your coffe" a friend may ask. You say, "none, I am diabetic". Friend says, "ok, no problem"
"Have a beer", a friend may offer. You say, "no I am alcoholic"
Friend then says, "aww come on, one won't hurt", or in peer preasure situations, our "friends" may walk away as if we are lepers.
Why?
---------------
Finaly, "real alcoholic" has nothing to do with living on a park bench or a penthhouse.
That's a false perception is for the ignorant and is not our problem, it is theirs.
In law, they tell us "ignorance of law is no excuse", don't they?
If the speed zone is 60 and you are doing 75, you cannot say to the judge, "but your honour, they never told me and I am a nephew of yours truly".
This phenomenon of craving does not discriminate no matter who's human body it's got.
No matter who breaks the speed limit, it will cost a fine sooner or later.
If you are real alcoholic, it will cause the phenomenon of craving, weather you are the judge or not, you and only you are that judge if you crave alcohol when you put alcohol in your body.
Once you have admitted to your inner most self, honestly, that you cannot control the amount of alcohol you drink, and your life is unmanageable,
then and only then there is room for Step 2.
Let the games begin, passing on the message of Hope for the real alcoholic is the best game around, simply stay sober to avoid the hitting the gutter.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 567
Sugah: Dr. Bob said that he "craved" a drink for two years after he quit, which, if you're equating craving with the compulsion to drink more ("phenomenon of craving") once you start, doesn't make a lot of sense.
But when I passed a bar on the main road near the gas station, my mind instantly went into "lock-down", full 3D image of me sitting at the bar, enjoying that steak, a glass of beer with a wine chaser.
I actually tatsed it, the indicator was on to go to the gas station, and I freaked. All I could think of was the Serenity Prayer, and it went away.
Best coke and potato chips ever and I refelected on what just happened.
All day I was at work in the hot sun, not a thought of a drink, had lots of water, plenty of water all day.
So what "triggered" that thought and craving, or was it "taste" from the mind's memory banks?
The mind, the mind is so powerfull.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 264
Since I quit, I've had very little cravings. BUT the obsession is rocking my world a bit. All the "Never agains". All the beautiful little triggers that make me romanticize a sparkly glass of wine are making me nuts. It really proves to me that I am an alcoholic. I am, however grateful that I haven't had a significant urge to cave.........YET
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
My cravings for alcohol rather quickly lessened in both
frequency and intensity ..by the end of 2 months of
AA they had vanished...That took various actions from me.
.never returned. ..so far. far...
I don't know if they were mental or physical ,,,perhaps both?
3 years later...still contentedly AA sober....I was working in
elder home care...my new client lived alone...was bedridden and
had mid stage Altheimers..
I discovered a closet full of booze...no one would know
My mouth watered...I was sooo tempted.
Wham! that was a mental obsession.
I prayed..."Lord you know she needs me and I need her.
Please take away this obcession so I may stay here"
Zip...a warm sure feeling...a knowing ..a peace...happened.
I stayed with Miss A for months and never again opened
that closet or was tempted to drink.
That was 19 years ago...no other drinking obcession so far.
frequency and intensity ..by the end of 2 months of
AA they had vanished...That took various actions from me.
.never returned. ..so far. far...
I don't know if they were mental or physical ,,,perhaps both?
3 years later...still contentedly AA sober....I was working in
elder home care...my new client lived alone...was bedridden and
had mid stage Altheimers..
I discovered a closet full of booze...no one would know
My mouth watered...I was sooo tempted.
Wham! that was a mental obsession.
I prayed..."Lord you know she needs me and I need her.
Please take away this obcession so I may stay here"
Zip...a warm sure feeling...a knowing ..a peace...happened.
I stayed with Miss A for months and never again opened
that closet or was tempted to drink.
That was 19 years ago...no other drinking obcession so far.
Last edited by CarolD; 03-18-2011 at 01:39 PM. Reason: Typo
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Hollywood, FL
Posts: 30
For me, I think of the craving as the "compulsive" side to obsessive/compulsive behavior.
It is the brain's call for action. Sometimes it is an insistence on action. I really had that feeling of impending doom if I didn't get a drink.
The obsessions are the thoughts that can't hurt me. I say a prayer in order to stop the obsession and avoid the action.
It is the brain's call for action. Sometimes it is an insistence on action. I really had that feeling of impending doom if I didn't get a drink.
The obsessions are the thoughts that can't hurt me. I say a prayer in order to stop the obsession and avoid the action.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London
Posts: 13
Hi all, I'm new here.
Mental Obsession versus Craving is very interesting. This is my take on it ;
Mental obsession is the thoughts that one has, so I suppose that if we are constantly thinking about drinking then that could set off a kind of craving for alcohol.
We all know that obsessing on something else other than alcohol can often cause discomfort. When I say "we" I hope you don't mind as I usually like to use the "I" word to take ownership of my own statements. But in this case I would like to think that there is an identification between us.
So obsession is not too healthy and therefore mental obsession is the mind trying to fixate on something. Someone said earlier that craving is physical which I kind of agree on, but if the mental obsession is getting too much and thoughts of drinking start up then that can possibly turn into a craving, especially if there are images of alcohol and the mind can now imagine the taste of the alcohol.
So what I say is that mental obsession can turn into a craving if I am not careful. If I am not thinking about alcohol then a craving is unlikely.
Have a great weekend all.
Mental Obsession versus Craving is very interesting. This is my take on it ;
Mental obsession is the thoughts that one has, so I suppose that if we are constantly thinking about drinking then that could set off a kind of craving for alcohol.
We all know that obsessing on something else other than alcohol can often cause discomfort. When I say "we" I hope you don't mind as I usually like to use the "I" word to take ownership of my own statements. But in this case I would like to think that there is an identification between us.
So obsession is not too healthy and therefore mental obsession is the mind trying to fixate on something. Someone said earlier that craving is physical which I kind of agree on, but if the mental obsession is getting too much and thoughts of drinking start up then that can possibly turn into a craving, especially if there are images of alcohol and the mind can now imagine the taste of the alcohol.
So what I say is that mental obsession can turn into a craving if I am not careful. If I am not thinking about alcohol then a craving is unlikely.
Have a great weekend all.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by itsthesecret 
Mental obsession is the thoughts that one has, so I suppose that if we are constantly thinking about drinking then that could set off a kind of craving for alcohol.
This idea of 'constantly thinking about drinking' is tricky. It's very easy to think that I'm OK, and don't have the mental obsession. After all, I'm not thinking about drinking, don't want to drink, everything is A-OK. Not a cloud on the horizon.
If you read both Jim's and Fred's examples of mental obsession, neither of those guys would have told you that they were obsessing about a drink. Just the opposite, they both felt they were doing just fine. And suddenly, they were drunk.
The trickiest part about the mental obsession aspect of alcoholism, is that I'm completely unaware that I have it. That's why I rely on the actions I'm taking to tell me how I'm doing instead of how I feel. The actions never fail me. What I think almost always lets me down.
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Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
Thanks for the post...I've been wondering about this myself. I have not felt what I would call a real craving since getting sober...yet I still have errant thoughts...out of nowhere will pop he thought.."A drink would be nice" I don't really want one, I think of it as random bad thoughts that haven't been completely erradicated and probably won't ever be 100% gone (since drink advertisements are all over).
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Originally Posted by NobleCause
Don't mean to launch a semantic debate or split hairs, just wondering if anyone could describe the distinction (or overlap)? I've heard both terms used in meetings, seemingly interchangeably in context, so am unclear as to what the difference is, if any...
I'm 25 days sober, on a bit of a roller coaster of cravings (or what I think would be called cravings), and, while not truly all that hung up on the terminology, I feel like being better able to identify which is which might help me to defuse them as they strike.
I'm 25 days sober, on a bit of a roller coaster of cravings (or what I think would be called cravings), and, while not truly all that hung up on the terminology, I feel like being better able to identify which is which might help me to defuse them as they strike.
Please read the Doctor's Opinion in the book.
This may be helpful to you in reading what Dr. Silkworth meant by phenomenon of craving and mental obsession.
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,006
The way I think of it is the craving is when you drink and drink after you drink just a little. That little 'click' happens and you're off to the races, you can't get enough. It's more of a bodily compulsion.
The mental obsession is wanting to pick up that first drink. Mental obsession fits with how I want to drink when I'm sober. It is repetitive thoughts, circular thoughts, different thoughts that always lead to the thought and desire to drink. Obsession - my mind goes around and around in wierd places but always back to wanting to drink.
I don't know if there's a 'right' way to think about these things? Whatever helps you understand your addiction is the right way to think about it, imho.
The mental obsession is wanting to pick up that first drink. Mental obsession fits with how I want to drink when I'm sober. It is repetitive thoughts, circular thoughts, different thoughts that always lead to the thought and desire to drink. Obsession - my mind goes around and around in wierd places but always back to wanting to drink.
I don't know if there's a 'right' way to think about these things? Whatever helps you understand your addiction is the right way to think about it, imho.
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