Take the cotton out of your ears....
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Baghdad
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Take the cotton out of your ears....
...and put it in your mouth.
Something you may have heard at AA meetings, if you've attended more than a handful. Would be interesting to see how many AA members here have actually heard that statement-I have-at a meeting.
But we come to an online forum, admittedly many here aren't members of AA but some are.
Does the 'rule' still apply here, for the 'new' members of AA that post here?
Discuss.
Something you may have heard at AA meetings, if you've attended more than a handful. Would be interesting to see how many AA members here have actually heard that statement-I have-at a meeting.
But we come to an online forum, admittedly many here aren't members of AA but some are.
Does the 'rule' still apply here, for the 'new' members of AA that post here?
Discuss.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Coast
Posts: 1,906
i don't think so. i was a member of a hard core step group that was militant to put it lightly.
it used to really pi$$ me off when they said it to newbies with almost no other advise. imo, it's like the blind leading the blind at that point. if that's all they can add to a newbie then they need to really re-examine thier own program. it's hard enough to get a newbie to open up. i always attributed those sayings to mean spirited people who couldn't articulate anything better to say.
...just my 2 cents.
it used to really pi$$ me off when they said it to newbies with almost no other advise. imo, it's like the blind leading the blind at that point. if that's all they can add to a newbie then they need to really re-examine thier own program. it's hard enough to get a newbie to open up. i always attributed those sayings to mean spirited people who couldn't articulate anything better to say.
...just my 2 cents.
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I think old timers that say that are just very angry people. Newcomers have a right to say anything they want to concerning their drinking and usually do. They are the most important people in the room.Most newcomers at AA meetings i go to are coming out of treatment centers where they know they have to share if they want to be sober. It is one of the most dangerous sayings in AA. I always encourage newcomers to share at meetings.
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Join Date: Dec 2010
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Just to be clear, I'm not in AA. But I'd say that rule assumes that old-timers have the answers, and newcomers don't. I'm happy to listen to anyone. Besides, in my experience, telling someone to shut up and listen is not an effective way of making myself heard....
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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One of the very first AA meetings I attended was held in the rehab facility where I was staying. It was a fairly large meeting with probably over 100 people there in addition to the inpatient crowd. It was chaired by an addict (not an alcoholic), and was run by a bunch of us with less than 30 days of inpatient sobriety.
After a 1/2 hour or so, this old guy along the side of the room stands up red-faced and screams at us, "Shut the f**k up", repeatedly. A bunch of us were offended and complained to the treatment staff and blah blah blah.
This guy may not have been the carrying the message in a way that was useful. He was, however, entirely correct in his assessment. He had seen hundreds of us come through before, clinging to our old views and beliefs, full of what we thought we needed, and in reality having no clue how to stay sober. We were utterly full of crap.
Again, I'm not condoning an old timer taking that approach. But, what I (and others) was saying in that meeting was nonsense. It was just simply the ideas about sobriety from an alcoholic mind that had zero experience with actually being sober. And it had nothing to do with AA, although I would have assured you it did.
The fact was that I (and others) clung to my ideas, left rehab trying to put those ideas into practice, and hung on for a few months before getting drunk. I did not have a solution to my alcoholism, and certainly not the AA solution. Everything I said was a danger to someone in need of that solution.
The same is true in the rooms of AA everyday. A lot of unrecovered alcoholics speaking their opinions about recovery, with very little experience of actually being recovered. It's of very little use to someone who needs AA's solution, and quite harmful to those same people.
After a 1/2 hour or so, this old guy along the side of the room stands up red-faced and screams at us, "Shut the f**k up", repeatedly. A bunch of us were offended and complained to the treatment staff and blah blah blah.
This guy may not have been the carrying the message in a way that was useful. He was, however, entirely correct in his assessment. He had seen hundreds of us come through before, clinging to our old views and beliefs, full of what we thought we needed, and in reality having no clue how to stay sober. We were utterly full of crap.
Again, I'm not condoning an old timer taking that approach. But, what I (and others) was saying in that meeting was nonsense. It was just simply the ideas about sobriety from an alcoholic mind that had zero experience with actually being sober. And it had nothing to do with AA, although I would have assured you it did.
The fact was that I (and others) clung to my ideas, left rehab trying to put those ideas into practice, and hung on for a few months before getting drunk. I did not have a solution to my alcoholism, and certainly not the AA solution. Everything I said was a danger to someone in need of that solution.
The same is true in the rooms of AA everyday. A lot of unrecovered alcoholics speaking their opinions about recovery, with very little experience of actually being recovered. It's of very little use to someone who needs AA's solution, and quite harmful to those same people.
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Originally Posted by stugotz 
Just remember why they are called "Old Timers" Just sayin...
some of those "old timers" in my group didn't even sponsor anyone anymore and hadn't done any step work in years. but still.....in most of the attendees eyes, in my group... they had all of the answers..... nah, man. in my group they just had alot of gullible people imo.
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by ReadyAndAble
Just to be clear, I'm not in AA. But I'd say that rule assumes that old-timers have the answers, and newcomers don't. I'm happy to listen to anyone. Besides, in my experience, telling someone to shut up and listen is not an effective way of making myself heard....
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Originally Posted by BullDog777
yeah i get what you're sayin, but it dosen't mean their program is quality just because they've collected a crap load of chips.
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Bulldog, I agree with you. I think some newcomers don't know any better & take the approach that the old timers are always right. Newcomers are very vulnerable and are easily influenced at the start of sobriety.
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A kind approach will keep people coming back here. Doesn't mean we don't need a kick in the pants at times or to be firm with, but being somewhat understanding and kind goes a long way...especially someone who is really trying. IMO anyway.
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Originally Posted by stugotz
Not at all but all Im gonna say is that if Im lost Im gonna listen to someone who knows the way out. Just sayin...
i'll give you an example.
there was a guy in my group who had almost 30 years in AA. stayed sober since the day he got in. in the early years, he sponsored half our group, had grand sponcees, and so fourth. he was supposed to be some kinda "yoda" step guy. always yelling at the new comers, "your best thinking got you here! sit down, shut up! and so forth.
he was so militant that he used to be known for sliding a 38 revolver across the table to someone who wasn't listening and yell at them.."do yourself a favor if you can't shut the F up and take a suggestion!"
i'd seen him do it.
one night he slid the revolver across the table to the wrong dude, and the newbie shot himself in the head and the "old timer" went out and relapsed.
in light of this, the group has changed alot. guys who were so hardcore to verbally humiliate some newbies in a meeting to show how hardcore they were have adopted a more caring approach.
i know this example is extreme, but none of those "sayings" imo offer any experience, strength or hope" they just provide humiliation.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 252
Originally Posted by BullDog777
he was so militant that he used to be known for sliding a 38 revolver across the table to someone who wasn't listening and yell at them.."do yourself a favor if you can't shut the F up and take a suggestion!"
i'd seen him do it.
one night he slid the revolver across the table to the wrong dude, and the newbie shot himself in the head and the "old timer" went out and relapsed.
i'd seen him do it.
one night he slid the revolver across the table to the wrong dude, and the newbie shot himself in the head and the "old timer" went out and relapsed.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
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I don't do AA thus the rules don't apply to me. I was told a couple of times by AAers when I joined to "stuff it" although politely. I obviously didn't. If I wanted to follow AAs rules I would join AA, I joined SR.
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