DayTrader

heh.... it's easy..... MY feelings get hurt ALLLLLLL the time.

Well, not so much anymore but before recovery.....OMG.....EVERYTHING was against me, about me, hurt me, contradicted me, opposed me, etc etc etc. Hearing "read the book and look for the similarities was literally not possible for me to do for the first year or more.......ALL I could see were differences.

Kinda surprising for a "Citadel Man" to be such a sensative guy I suppose but the worst part was I deluded myself to believe I wasn't at ALL sensative..... that made for some tough going for sure.

Sheesh, a Cid grad...crying......NEVER!! lol

Kjell

One thing I know from my own experience is that not everyone is going to agree with me about my own sobriety.

...and I think that is wonderful, but can be painful as well, but certainly, very, very important.

Kjell~

LexieCat

I wasn't assuming anything, I was going by what you had posted previously, and in this thread. It was an honest question. Please don't take it as an attack, it wasn't meant that way.

It just seemed to me that you were assuming HER question was some kind of a challenge, when it was most likely meant as an expression of empathy from someone who HAS white-knuckled it.

It's very easy to misinterpret someone's intent, as your experience at the meeting and the exchange on this thread shows.

I rarely get offended by anything anyone says to me at a meeting, anymore. But there was a time when it would have gotten under my skin, too.

Toronto68

Sugah, you have a way of packaging your words that makes me feel better about contentious (and sometimes thorny) topics like this every time.

Bamboozle

I can see why you saw it as a challenge. Judging from the responses in these types of threads it would be easy to take the internet experience and apply it to the real world--I would have viewed her remark as a challenge. While it is possible she meant well, it’s also true that many people have absolutely no respect for someone who gets sober without an official program. Perhaps they are bitter? They shouldn't be if they found something that works for them. And if they are content with their own recovery, they should be happy for anyone who finds something that works for him or her.

I can accept that there are many paths to the same end. I wish more here could do the same.

CarolD

I sure don't see her off hand remark as judgement.or a put down.

Perhaps she was concerned?
Trying to assist a new person?


I'm glad you did share anyway.
Perhaps your experiences helped another.

Relax....

UniqueNewYork

Lol. I can't stand those members of AA either.

A significant group of the AA population has very little else in their life BUT AA. You have to keep that in perspective when you hear those comments and personally I feel a little bit of pity for those types. I don't just .. have relations (watching my mouth here) with people in AA, I can go out and meet someone the normal way. I don't just socialize with other AAers, I can make friends with everyday people. I don't just talk about AA when I get together with people, I have things going on in my life.

But a significant portion of AAers have none of what I describe. They have AA. Which is good. Thats awesome. I mean without AA.. many of us would be a plague on society and ourselves. But because they aren't as happy joyous and free as they would have you believe, they will often take a verbal swing at you.

If I sat here and tried hard enough, I'm sure I could think of several instances where I had run ins with these people. I will tell you of one. I have had legal problems and had to get my sheet signed. I was one of the few people who really wanted to be there and it wasn't just about getting my sheet signed, I really got into AA. I go up to the podium for my signature and one of the most notorious egotistical AAers is there (person whos entire self worth is determined by what people think of them in AA type). I barely know this guy, and he says "I don't come to these meetings for signatures. I come here because I want to be here" while I'm getting my sheet signed by the speaker. I bring his name up to my best friend in AA casually; I don't put any negative undertones in the way I ask about him. My friend says "yeah he's a big ****** *******". So yeah its unfortunate but you have those in any group of people of any type.

Spawn

the trick is to ignore what bothers you and only take home the good

LexieCat

I think I would have responded, "Funny, I come for the terrific coffee."

Veritas1

It sounds like a woman said something to you before the meeting started, privately, and then you spoke about it at group level as a defense, in defense of yourself, in resentment over what she said.

It can happen to the best of us.

Someone says something to us we don't like, and we share about it.

It's probably best to share a resentment with a sponsor, or someone in private versus group level, and also, the best way is to discuss it with the person that offended directly.

Perhaps waiting until after the meeting was over and speaking what you shared to all, directly to the person that offended you versus group level.

Live and learn.

"For when harboring such feelings we shut ourselves off from the sunlight of the spirit."

In resentment, waiting for your turn to speak out eliminates you hearing something good...to harbor feelings, re-feel, resent, think about what we will say to get that person back, to prove them wrong, to clear any wrong assumptions, to prove ourselves, etc...

Such a waste of time. But we do it. I know...I have done it. It's a natural defense we have. Someone offended, we react.

God save us from being angry.

ChikkaB

I'm of the school of thought that anyone who has enough time to take my inventory for me is simply not spending enough time on their own recovery, and good luck with that there sobriety thang, pal!

Toronto68

It seems like in some cases there's a notion that Loveon2Legs is supposed to atone for reacting the way she did to the suggestion she has been whiteknuckling it. On one level for identifying outwardly that she has not been doing that in her "share" at the meeting (which was repeating what she had heard and possibly gave the originator of the idea an embarrassed feeling). And also for feeling miffed in the first place.

Well, I disagree with those who hold that notion. We all know that suggesting that somebody must be whiteknuckling their way through sobriety is like saying, "You're really just taking your farging chances and you're lucky you haven't slipped. Don't you think you should put it in second gear and come to more meetings and get going on the Steps?" In other words, it's an insult. Or at the least, it's someone kind of unworldly and clutsy with words that would suggest it must be a case of whiteknuckling. (Rude. Same thing.)

But for people who don't want to see it that way, it won't appear to be an insult, because what THEY know is that they needed to do what it took THEM to do in order to be where they are now, and that's to come around and give AA a chance; and AA turned out to be what worked. For all we know, those could have been the most stubborn people in the world and now they have proof that AA is the right way. If AA worked on them, it must be right. And now they're going to tell that to the newbies.

I'm not in Loveon2's brain to know why she showed up at the meeting, but I thought she attended once in a while the way others have said they do "casually": just to accompany one good thing with another good thing. I have thought about going before because I thought it might add to the positive changes I have already made. I stay away though, because I don't want to hear all the nosy (and frankly dumb) statements like the one we're talking about here. I'm not going to make a trip and listen to inconsiderate naysayers telling me I have done things wrong.

Who is anyone else to be suggesting somebody who worked on their own progress is pushing their luck and doing it wrong if they are still not drinking? Why should we suspect the person who has not worked through the Steps or attended meetings like they're sugar cannot be trusted with himself? I don't have enough power over time and space to know what it's like to be every other addict in the world in order to be sure which way is THE best way to recover. I picked sobriety to get back to knowing me without alcohol in my system, and that's really clean and simple. The desire was good enough to work, up to and including today.

I do think it's possible for people to be "coasting." I have asked myself that question. And maybe some people really are missing out on something they need; maybe AA is the way to go after all.

But let's put the spades on the table and call them spades. I find it mysterious that a number (some number, I don't know how large) of people that do use AA have such a rough time communicating with people who are not "AA through-and-through." I am really happy to learn something here from people that are in AA. Why is it that I need to feel like people in AA have nothing to learn from me? Do I sound unbearably naive to contemplate that would even be possible?

If it's really like that (and I really suspect this is true of specific posters I have read here lately), then I think the next time someone trusting their method feels like a "suspect" when they're accused of whiteknuckling, maybe they should look at it this way:

"Don't feel sorry for me; let me be sorry for you for feeling sorry for me."

LexieCat

AA is full of human beings, flawed human beings. Sometimes we put our foot in our mouth.

I don't think that has a darned thing to do with AA, I think it has to do with being human.

Have you never said something that maybe, on reflection, could have been taken the wrong way by someone else?

dairo

O.........................K *facepalm*

Toronto68

If it doesn't have much to do with AA, then can you think of lots of examples here of people who quit outside of AA tossing the word "white knuckle" at each other? I think not. It's a classic put-down that comes out of the AA room vernacular. (Spare me questions like "Have I never made a mistake")

It's the same bloodything every other week.

TwelveSteps

Exactly my thought... she was just trying to make conversation. People say dumb stuff all the time. Why dwell on it?

The worst thing anyone ever said to me at an AA meeting was when a guy who was probably in his 50s was chatting with me before the meeting, I was newly sober so we were swapping stories, and he says, "Well at least you are getting sober young, what are you, like 40?" And I tried to force as much politeness through my teeth as I could when I said, "I'M THIRTY FIVE."

What's worse is I had *just* turned 35 too so I was extra sensitive about it. He's a super nice guy who I see at meetings all the time now but every time I greet him I remember that... Grrrrrr.

Moral of the story for the dudes out there: *NEVER* openly guess at a woman's age, weight, or whether or not she is pregnant!!!

GG

stugotz

If you like everyone you meet in AA you havent been to enough meetings...

LexieCat

AA does not own the term "white-knuckle". My mother used the term when she referred to how she rode in the car when I was learning to drive, 38 years ago. I've heard people refer to how they felt trying to stay sober with NO outside support (such as SR) as "white-knuckling it".

Toronto68

It's true the term need not have originated there, just as "God of my understanding" and "spiritual awakening" don't. But I'm not wearing blinders on this one. The next thing Loveon2 could have counted on hearing was "you're doing in the dry drunk way."

I think the passion I've put into defending Loveon2 is probably wasted energy. But I'll recap.

It doesn't make a difference to me whether people use AA partially, totally or not at all. I'm only interested in success felt by the person who wants out of addiction and to keep it that way. When I start pounding on the table in reaction to anything, it's often because my patience has run dry with the naysaying that comes with "you must have been whiteknuckling it all this time." Why is it naysaying? I don't know what the PERFECT thing would have been to say, but for me, it would have been something more like, "Wow, you have been fine all this time, do you 'do' anything else besides coming here; do you come here just to make use of all things available, you're not interested in going further, with the Steps..." There's a suggested interest there or openmindedness and not a clear indication that I suspect the person is delusional and a ticking time bomb merely because she has been doing things differently.

pinetree

Why do people who dislike AA's go to aa meetings? They seem to have no respect for them, don't follow the program, but go to AA meetings. To mean iis weird.