AprilMay1895

So, I gave AA and also spirituality a go for 8 months. Did my very best at trying to go from agnostic to believing in some sort of God. Looking back, I never felt any sort of spiritual connection to anything. In fact, when I started feeling very depressed, I re-dedicated my efforts to prayer...and then I got more depressed and drank. If there really was a God that is responsible for removing this obsession from me, and I really was working to help that happen...why didn't it?

I was okay before with trying to accept some form of spirituality, but after trying and then seeing no results...I find it hard to believe that there is a God out there that's really trying to keep me sober. And if spirituality is one of the main principles in getting sober, will I ever get sober if I don't feel any sort of connection/relationship to a god?

Has anyone had any experience with this?

Toronto68

AprilMay, I haven't really gone through that, I just quit and thought maybe there is a God and maybe there isn't. There have been uplifting moments when I think it's true; other times I think I am just trying to join the bigger part of the world that seems to be happy (and believes in something).

What do you think about dropping all of that approach then and starting over without entertaining it, and if it comes back later, so be it? I would have no clue, but what if there is a resentment associated with the non-belief that is getting in the way? Don't put it on God's shoulders, put it on your own, and be disciplined enough to know when you are off track and to give yourself credit for the times you deserve it. Or incorporate help from a different method outside of AA.

I really don't know how I managed to quit. I just did it and it still amazes me. If God is there and did act through me and help me, then I won't hog all the credit for myself (not that I'm a work of art or something). But He is the one that needs to tell me He did, and no one else. I don't know what's in my future anyway. But I can contribute to my future by not drinking right now, and we'll see how the rest goes.

UniqueNewYork

I got very lucky in that I got a great dad for my father. His father (my grandfather) killed himself when my dad was a kid. My dad's explanation for why bad things happen to good people is that the universe is a big place and God is very busy running things and doesn't always get involved in the things going on between people. My dad has done great things in his life and if thats how he rationalizes God letting little kids and babies suffer then thats good enough for me as well.

Azreal

perhaps gods greatest gift and potentially curse, is free will. I don't believe God will step in to stop us from certain things, rather he gives us the ability to choose for ourselves. Some of these decisions can be incredibly difficult to make and follow through with (being sober). I think his role is maybe more of one that empowers us to make the right decisions. With faith in him and ourselves and the support of our friends/family, we can make the right choices, however difficult they may be.

joedris

I think you're making too big a deal about this. You're not required to believe in God, regardless of what other people may say. Just be willing to accept the fact that may be something out there that's more powerful than you are. That's it. Don't try to make yourself believe in anything that you don't want to believe in.

As to God being responsible for removing the obsession? Where did that come from? The step reads that "...God could and would..." not that He's responsible for doing it. God (or whatever higher power you choose) will help you to get sober, not do all the work for you. If you want to read a good book (at least in my opinion) about God and His relationship to man, I suggest you get a copy of "When Bad Things Happen to Good People" by Harold Kushner. That book changed my whole view how this God thing works, and I have 12 years of Catholic education. I've read Aquinas and Augustine and I can talk theology with the best of them.

And spirituality is a way of life, not some mystical experience. It will come to you gradually if you work your way through the 12 steps. It doesn't come in a brilliant flash of light, but rather in bits and pieces. Don't try to force it.

So I suggest you step back and take a deep breath and rethink how you're approaching this whole issue. The 2nd step isn't something to get hung up on. Don't try to force yourself into something that you don't believe in. Just be willing to believe. Keep an open mind and move on. The spiritual thing, or "spiritual awakening" as we call it will eventually happen. Don't worry about it.

ChikkaB

You can be spiritual without believing in a traditional judeo-christian concept of 'god'. I often find that modern organized religion has very little to do with actual spirituality.

Supercrew

I can't help it but I am not a spiritual person either. But by not being spiritual it enables me to empower myself. I control my own destiny, and what my mind can conceive and believe, I can acheive.

I look at it as if there is no supreme being that is helping me or anyone else, we make our own good fortune and our own bad luck. Life is what I make of it, and it's not dependent on some almighty power in the sky, it's dependent on me and my actions.

But by understanding this I realize that there is nothing holding me back, and prayer and meditation will sometimes work for everyone because it allows the mind to focus concentrate on what a person wants. When good things come from things I focus on I thank myself and my brain, not the big invisible man in the sky. No offense to anyone whose beliefs differ than mine, but this is what works for me.

mercurial me

I empathize with you. I have the opposite problem. I am spiritual but have absolutely no faith in any of the humans out there (thus my issues with AA & organized religion).

Hmmmm.....good thread

Supercrew

If you knew me Merc you'd have faith in me.

recycle

AprilMay I am a confirmed agnostic and a grateful member of AA. I recommend browsing the secular 12 step forum, you may find some answers there. Even without god, I think working the steps can be accomplished with great benefit to my recovery. The steps are about being honest about addiction, relinquishing my will over things I cannot control, looking at myself, being willing to be reinvent myself, doing my honest best at repairing the damage I have done, making the things that got me sober an ongoing part of my life, and helping others get sober.

Bamboozle

For some spirituality helps them. For others like myself it plays no role whatsoever in recovery.

People can and do get sober without a god. You have to find what works for you.

ste

My conscience tells me what’s right and wrong. If it’s not the same as instinct (we can argue the point), I think it is perfectly analogous. I can attribute it to a God, HP, Spiritual awareness, natural evolution, or I have heard even a door knob. Its a personal choice.

My self awareness, imagination and (the trump card) free will can, and do, play with my conscience. The devil on one shoulder, angel on the other, all the little voices in my head, the "commitee". Throw in alcohol and its a big party!

I don't need a revelation, awakening, or the like. I need to do what's right.
I need large doses of humility, and to tread lightly, to trust or have faith in my conscience.

keithj

AprilMay, AA is not simply a prayer program. It's a set of specific actions, that when taken, will bring one into some sort of conscience contact with some kind of power.

One of the best places to start is 'God isn't.' Instead of praying, see if starting from that standpoint can help you get a solid first Step.

ste

I believe these steps can give you faith and trust in your conscience.

BullDog777

i won't go so far as to say i lost my faith in God or didn't believe, but i definately felt like my faith in God was very thin at the end of my drinking.

i had tried for over a decade to get sober at various times. my local AA group hated me because i was a revolving door case with very little hope.

i was 36 years old and i was dying. i had maybe a couple of months left before this disease was gonna take my life and i knew it, but i didn't really want to die either.

at this point i really think i had stopped looking to God to fix me and just tried to do this on my own. i had a daughter i needed to live for.

I endured 30 days of pure hell. i detoxed off of benzos and booze at the same time and i had multiple seizures, stroke level blood pressure, hallucinations, tremors, and a list of probably 20 more symptoms i could write down.

somewhere between day 29 and 30 of this detox, i couldn't take the weeks of no sleep and ferocious pain i had endured any more. my body was giving out and i was dying. all that morning, i drifted in and out of conciousness and as i got myself together i went out the door to finally give in because i was just too tired. i went to the store to buy some booze.


that whole morning, i kept hearing this bible verse in my head repeat psalm 23...i really thought it was my mind coming to grips with me dying.

it kept repeating over and over....

"the Lord is my shepard I shall not want;
he makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters;
he restores my soul.
He leads me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I fear no evil.
for thou art with me;
thy rod and thy staff,
they comfort me.
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of my enemies;
thou anointest my head with oil,
my cup overflows.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
all the days of my life;
and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord
forever."

i was shaking violently as i pulled into my local grocery store to get some booze. i had enough of this. i knew this was my last day on earth because either way it was gonna be over after today. whether i drank myself to death or died from another seizure, it was all i could endure. i was pounding on my dashboard with my fists begging for some kind of mercy after a decade of suffering when i asked for any sign at all that i should keep going on with this.

In that moment, i swear on my life an old beat up car pulled directly in front of me.

the license plate read...Psalm 23


in that moment, i think i was more shocked at what i saw more than anything else. If there was a God, i believe he had finally heard me. i don't know why, because i didn't deserve it, but he did. for whatever reason, i believe it was divine intervention that saved me from certain death.

why this time and not for the last 10 years? i don't know.

all i did know was i never drank again. i slept like a child that night and my withdrawal was over. that day was Decemder 23, 2009. that day for me is more special to me than my sobriety date.

all i can throw at this logically or illogically is an old AA saying that states "don't give up 5 minutes before the miracle happens." because every now and then, you get to see them yourself, first hand.

artsoul

I remember praying pretty hard during a few of my hangovers, lol.... I don't think you're the only one who has felt that their prayers went unanswered.

I have my own take on spirituality from reading all kinds of different books, and from my own experiences and intuition. Spirituality to me is like something inside me "recognizes" truth....... like when your heart/soul is washed with joy even for the briefest moment. It's love...... it's good "energy"....... it's God, but it's also inside YOU. We're not separate, we've just covered it up (addiction does this SO well).......

I found SR at my lowest point. Coincidence? I don't think so. I think I (the student) was finally willing to hear and SR (the teacher) showed up. That to me is God working in my life. Even the hard stuff can be positive..... I know I wouldn't appreciate my life nearly as much if I hadn't had the struggles I've had.

I think you just have to start with what rings true to you. When I gave up the old version of God (which I tried hard to believe in), I felt lost, but I figured if there was anything true in the Bible it had to be "God is Love." I started from there and just left the rest as a big question mark. Somehow over the years I've grown to understand more and more about my relationship to this HP/force........

I you have lots of negative thinking about it, maybe try one of Wayne Dyer's books. They are so very positive.........

Sorry to go on and on - it just kind of "came out!"

Kjell

Hi April-

I first want to say that I'm sorry you're unable to have a spiritual experience by working all 12 steps of AA honestly and to the best of your ability.

I'm 15 months sober and almost done with step 12 (we're reading through the big book and working the steps as they come up).

I have found, in my recovery, that my relationship with God (or higher power) has been the most important piece in my recovery. There are many other parts, but my spirituality, which grows by leaps and bounds at times, is the cornerstone of my sobriety.

All I had to do was become and remain honest, willing, and openminded.

One other point is it's my belief to pray for God's will only and then become silent and still and "listen" for the answer. There is more to this of course, but that's the skinny of it.

Either way you go from here, I wish you the best!

Kjell

LexieCat

In my experience, just praying to God that I won't want to drink didn't do it for me.

What spirituality means to me is removing myself from the center of the universe. Realizing DEEP DOWN that it isn't all about me. It means getting out of my own way so that events can unfold the way they should. It means humility--recognizing that I don't have all the answers. It means recognizing that others have a right to live as best they can, just as I do. It means taking responsibility for what I can and should own and letting go of what is the responsibility of other people. It means being as honest as I can with myself and other people.

I have a very amorphous concept of "God" or a Higher Power. I do believe there is one, and I'm not it. I find that quiet time (not necessarily formal prayer) helps me to get myself back in the place where I need to be.

What DIDN'T work for me was trying to think my way through it (though I didn't give up thinking, I worked on thinking in a different way), or focing situations.

It's actually an EXTREMELY liberating way to live.

AprilMay1895

Thanks for all the posts. I greatly appreciate having SR in my life and being able to discuss my issues and get more than one answer.

After I posted this last night, I started reading the Rational Recovery book and I've also been listening to the Sober for Good audiobook. I think it just may be that AA is not right for me and I need to look into alternative recovery methods.

My history with religion is a little extreme to be honest. When I was 14 through 18 years old, I was what I now call a "religious extremist." I did not swear, have sex, drink, smoke, do drugs, etc. I read the Bible and prayed every night without fail, I went to church and religious classes without fail. I was an over-achiever in school and I was highly judgmental against people who did that list of things I just typed. In fact, I had a very close friend who started a friendship with someone who drank, so I distanced myself from her because of it...about a month later she was killed in a car crash...she'd left my life with me mad at her for being nice to someone who drank alcohol. And yes, now I'm an alcoholic...funny how life goes.

When I turned 18 and left for college that same year, my life flipped upside down. I took everything I was before and did the opposite...I was CRAZY. lol In that one year the following things happened to me: my grandpa died, my friend and three other teenagers were killed in a car crash(freezing rain), my brother was sent to war in Iraq, I moved away from my friends and family for the first time ever, I got severe acne, I gained weight, I started drinking, my grandma died and my uncle shot himself after a long battle with cancer. Previous to this one year in my life, no one had died, no one even got really sick...my life was almost too easy, so when this all hit I really lost it because I had no idea how to cope.

I guess, after all of this, I swore never to blindly give myself to another religion again. Everyone told me "God will never give you more than you can handle." And boy, did I have more than I could handle. lol I'm starting to believe in a God now, one that is more distant...I think life goes on and God isn't as involved as I used to believe. I now believe we really have a lot of free will. God has nothing to do with the bad things that happen, but it's up to me to use my free will and not go ballistic about it and still have faith I'll make it though. I think one day I'll understand spirituality but only on my own terms and at my own pace. So I think in order to keep myself in one piece, I need to take a path other than AA but still try to grow a spiritual self as life goes on...but this is very hard to do if I drink and I think the methods in rational recovery will work for me better than AA has.

PaperDolls

Great thread AprilMay ..... it seems to me you're headed in the right direction .... you want to stay sober and you're willing to do the work that's required, AA or not.

I was once an agnostic, hell some days I still am, and now feel like I am spiritually growing. I don't think i believe in God the way many people do and I don't have religion. I have spirituality. There is a difference.

I'm proud of you for your efforts and wish you all the luck/good karma in the world.

Glad you're here.