Kjell

I am powerless over alcohol and I take full, 100% responsability for that.

How can I "pass the responsibility from the person to the bottle" when the problem was me the whole time?

Supercrew - please don't bash our program and try to break it down to make it sound weak and unacountable. Have you in fact worked the steps of AA? Do you really know what you're talking about?

We all take different paths and a lot of our sobriety can be seen through our kindess and understanding (or lack-there-of).

We've got to be careful here on SR as our words not only sting, they can confuse and harm as well.

Kjell

JTele

Well, the "scientific evidence" is perhaps the only part that I didn't necessarily agree with, but I do agree with the overall content in myheadhurts' message. As human beings, I also feel that we do contain a very strong and powerful sense of "free will" in our decision making processes, and when it comes to quitting drinking, we ultimately need to decide how badly we really want to quit. To achieve that goal, we will of course choose the path that most certainly works the best for our individual selves, and I certainly will never condemn anyone for whatever path they choose. I've simply made the decision to make it very clear to myself that having another drink is really NOT in my best interest, no matter how strong a craving may or may not be. My own personal decision to quit drinking is entirely based upon reason and logic, and while I can literally build a list with dozens of reasons and incentives to quit drinking, I can't think of one single reason to the contrary.

Supercrew

Kjell, it wasn't bashing your program. If you are powerless over something how can you be held accountable for it? And doesn't powerless mean having no power whatsoever? Thus the meaning ultimately would be weak? By explaining the method of the program I am not bashing it anymore than quoting from the BB would be considered bashing anyone elses program. It was just an explanation to 123 from my point of view and basically saying no reason to rant on a programs ideals if it works.

Kjell

Supercrew - c'mon. You know what you're doing.

I am powerless over alcohol. Not weak. Once I realized I was powerless, I tapped into a power by working the steps of AA and the obsession to drink was removed.

Once the obessesion of drinking was removed, I then used the remainder of the steps to work on myself. To better myself.

AA is not a cop out. The steps are not a way for alcoholics to be unaccountable for their alcoholism. It takes a lot of work, soul searching, and honesty to work all 12 steps, so trust me when I say we are being VERY accountable for our alcoholism

Keep up the good work on your sobriety and help show others your program so others may get and stay sober.

Kjell

Supercrew

I'm not saying AA is a cop out. But the symantics make it easier for people to accept the premise and get into the program. The 12 steps don't focus on not drinking, they focus on becoming a better person. That along with fellowship and charity help to make members realize there is a better life to be had without alcohol subconsciously, and then they lose the mental obsession. Basically it tackles the issue of alcohol obsession by repairing other aspects of a persons life. I think the program is fascinating, and please don't take offense to my explanation, because it was directed at 23's rant. I apologize if it looked like anything else.

Charmie

thanks kjell...yeh admitting your powerless is paradoxically the way of strength.....
writing a searching and fearless moral inventory.... going out and making face to face amends with ALL the folk you have ever harmed where possible.......weak? really?
i do love it when people tell us what something is all about when they have never experienced it,never done it,never even attempted anything like it...in fact...know nothing whatsoever about it.
everyone has there own way,their own program,or no program...whatever...it dosnt matter as long as we are getting well.but to tell folk that are working and living a 12 step program what it is all about when theyve never been near it makes me laugh...alot....
thats like me going up to the nearest construction site and telling the guy in charge how to build a shopping mall when ive never even mixed cement.......

Supercrew

Charmie, I do have experience and knowledge about the 12 step program, I attended Aa for an extend amount of time, I have gone over the steps, and my wife has been involved in the 12 step program as well, although not as an addict or alcohlic. Just because you disagree with my view it doesn't mean I have no knowledge of the program. But I am sorry if my view offended you and your beliefs.

keithj

This is the perfect example for this thread. If this works for you, well done, good job, and game over. Please let us know how it goes.

The reason AA exists is because so many people fail at staying sober after coming to the same decision. I did not willingly consider AA or the idea of 'powerless' until I had failed repeatedly at sticking to my decision to not drink.

I was demonstrating that 'weakness' on a daily basis. The weakness was in the result of picking up another drink. The weakness was a true fact demonstrated by my actions. Calling it weak or powerless, didn't make my actions any more weak. The weakness was already there.

Call it weak, call it powerless, the result was the same. I got drunk.

Paradoxically, by actually accepting that weakness, instead of trying to overcome it for the thousandth time, I found lasting, long-term sobriety.

Charmie

supercrew my post wasnt aimed at you...if it had of been i would have mentioned you by name my friend....it was a general message aimed at a lot of posts that seem to be flying about at the moment and not just on this thread!

JTele

I often wonder why it isn't easy for many of us to agree to disagree. I know very little about AA, nor will I ever pretend to know anything about it. Still, the ultimate goal for all of us is to achieve sobriety, and I could really give a rat's arse as to how we there as long as we do. I've even heard some members here go as far as to ask why some of us come to this forum if we already feel we have the remedy for being sober all figured out. The fact is that we don't have it fully figured out, and here lies the problem. If we had the remedy and cure to sobriety, we wouldn't be alcoholics, now would we? The bottom line is that each of us needs to find our own special way of tackling this problem, and if that need requires help from the outside, then that's wonderful! If one has the ability to do it on his/her own, that's wonderful, too! I joined this forum primarily because I came to the conclusion that I was indeed an alcoholic, and I personally find a great deal of gratification here by reading the experiences and opinions of others whether I agree with them or not. If nothing else, it reinforces my train of thought in that I can gain a knowledgeable perspective of where I really stand in the full spectrum of alcoholism and how it can literally ruin our lives. It also reinforces the notion that I want to live for the things that are of the utmost importance to me, and I would tend to think that this is primarily why most people want to quit drinking in the first place. After all, we really are all in this together, aren't we?

CarolD

More posts removed..more mis-nderstandings and hurt feelinf ..
more personal attacks...more bickering....means

this thread is closed.

hope everyone is enjoying another sober day...